Cringe Petty Reports

[MrDisciple]

Problem:
The community of eclipse is still very toxic. The most powerful and used tool for these toxic members are forum reports. When you don't win in game, you go for the win on forums.

Solution:
Have 0 tolerance for it. Punish those who petty forum report players without trying to resolve the problem themselves in game or using a /report. Make sure forum reports are used as a last resort instead of a first resort.

Recently, I've seen dozens of petty reports stemming purely from a win at all costs mentality. Most reports go against the forum guidelines stating it has to be a severe loss. Majority of reports from cops are so cringe worthy, it's not even funny. They've lost nothing and yet still report with 0 attempt to resolve it in game. Does that not speak for itself? The sever would be much friendlier place to play if the community looked out for eachother and helped eachother when rules are broken. Your friend drives offroad in a sports car and you don't think twice but a rival does it and suddenly you strive to have them banned. I'd honestly love to link some reports which are horrifically petty but I won't.

Edited November 14, 2022 by MrDisciple

[MrDisciple]

Add this question in report format - "What have you done to inform/educate the reporting party of this rulebreak?"

 

Quote from Player Report Requirements - "reserve player reports for situations that have caused severe loss" "[For players who] purposefully broke a rule" "Reporting another player should be reserved for your final options when a rule breach has occurred. Always try to teach other players in the community" yet this is not enforced by staff creating a toxic win mentality environment!

Edited November 14, 2022 by MrDisciple

[XeV]

yo type louder for the people in back! this has been thrown into the echo chamber countless times by MULTIPLE community members myself included, nothing will change unless staff follow the guidelines that are literally set up to help stop this behavior. TOO many times is the guideline just ignored, like take for example Ceaser getting that NRP punishment for wheelieing over the tollbooth bar twice.

That my friends is an IC decision if I ever seen one, but he gets a NRP cause some random tollbooth worker reports out the blue for something SO MINOR, but then we see cops pulling into a gangs HQ parking lot to acquire plates, get boxed in and shot and they get a "borderline FRP, but we chalk it up to an IC bad decision" im sorry but too many times in situations I have even been apart of do COPS get the "IC bad Decision" but I get a "oh you have 500k xp you should know better as a long time member of the community"

[Kommand]

''There's the IC war, then the forum war.'' @AnakinB

I think there should be some sort of policy where if you engage an alleged rulebreaker in combat, meaning you decide to ICly shoot back or retaliate, your right to report for DM/NonRP etc. should be voided. Often people just recklessly decide to go for the win knowing that if they lose, they can just report and end up getting a refund. And in addition, if they manage to win, suddenly they don't feel the desire to report. People put WAY too much importance on in game assets, to be honest. They're fucking pixels on a game at the end of the day. Yet so many lose a gun and immediately start a report hoping that the presiding moderator finds a reason to accept it.

I'm not sure what exactly the repercussions are from a denied report, other than isolated cases where reporting parties have received an admin log for it. Personally I think the consequences should be more severe, as this culture of ''Save POV'' is insanely toxic & limits RP due to players avoiding situations that may result in an accusation. Furthermore, factions have now started using OOC tactics as means to disband or cripple competition. Hell, I read a report not too long ago where the Lost MC accused one of its own of stealing from the treasury! The reported party proved his innocence and the report got denied, but how does that not affect him IC? Knowing that your gang thinks you're a thief...oh but it's OOCly. Ridiculous.

Regarding cops and the consistent petty reports we see from them, it really makes you wonder what their motive is. We all know taking the L can suck, but they literally suffer 0 IC consequences for it. 30 minutes later and they can be back on duty with the same loadout like it never happened. It's frustrating the leniency they get in comparison to crims who often are presumed guilty until proven innocent. 

OP is right though--this has been and continues to be a problem on multiple fronts. One suggestion I would make is that appeals should not be initially handled by the original presuming moderator. It should immediately be cross reviewed by a third party member of staff to prevent the bias that obviously exists when a decision is questioned. 

Less reporting, less deporting!

 

[Herbo]

Hello !

This is a suggestion I agree with TOTALLY. Reports in general right now are in a very toxic and very petty state. There are many ways I think this could be handled but I think this falls under something the Staff of the server need to enforce more. 

The recent report that happened with Caesar and him receiving a NRP punishment for wheelying over the Toll Booth I think is a PRIME example of this. Sure, what he did was more then likely NRP but this is a situation that could've very easily been solved on an OOC level that did not involve a forum report. The player could've messaged him about it, made a /report 1 3 or 4 about the situation, or could've just left it go as they lost nothing but maybe $600 dollars from him skipping the toll. I think there's 2 ways this problem could really be handled.

1. Punishments other then NRP #Whatever or DM #Whatever for outcomes of reports : Now this is something I think could work very well. Basically instead of players just being punished for every time a forum report gets accepted they could receive just a spoken to. I think it'd be better if the only times actual punishments were handed out were times when it was a severe rule break, the rule break caused the reporting party a significant loss, or if the person is a repeat offender. This would open up the ability for less punishments and more just educating players on rules as I feel like a large large majority of the playerbase if they just heard from an admin or anyone that what they did was not allowed, they normally won't repeat that act.

2. /PM and try to work stuff out on an OOC level : Forum reports should simply be a last case resort. They should only be conducted after you 

1st : Try to PM them and talk about the situation, if you can't talk it out completely peacefully and apologize about the situation or something then inform them you will be reporting.

2nd : Make an In-game report and try to speak to an admin or moderator in game about the situation and have it handled there.

3rd : Make the forum report and provide proof you already tried both of the things before this. 

If players tried these things I think it would make for a much better environment and RP more enjoyable if you could do RP without essentially just worrying about getting reported all the time for a miniscule rulebreak you may commit. This overall would just create a better environment for anyone if you can just go about RP without that worry in the back of your mind "Am I gonna get in trouble for this." 

I'd like to end this comment with saying that I agree that major rule breaks should go to the forums. In the cases where Metagaming might've happened should be dealt with but some of the situations where NRP specifically is handed out, I think should be attempted to solved in game OOCly with reports and pms instead of just getting people punishments. I will also say I've been on both sides of these Petty reports with me making one that I actually do regret a lot and wish I could take back and being reported for something very petty that the reporting party lost nothing. 

Thats all I got to say, I hope this is a suggestions that's looked at and really talked about as I think it is something that needs to change.

[Bala]

The problem for me with this is who decides whether something is petty or toxic? Because, we all have different understandings and tolerances. One admin might be a complete snowflake and another might be let a lot of things go. 

I think the report section is a bit of a circus to be honest, given that everything is done out in the open, it almost becomes like an open jury where everyone can have their opinion. 

I think the whole report system should be between those being reported and the admin taking the report and done privately. There are surely ways in which it can be done and I think that if you aren't being judged by the court of public opinion, then being involved in reports isn't as shameful experience. Even when I've been reported and not done anything wrong, it's still been shitty to have to defend my actions publicly.

[MrDisciple]

@Bala As a criminal it is imperative for me and for others to see Player Reports and their outcomes. This is how we learn about the rules which we can most definitely not do from the rules. Criminals check through player reports everyday to stay up to date with the what Admins are banning people for. Where in comparison, I've met players in legal factions who've never even clicked on it.

The issue at hand is that reporting has become a way of revenge due to IC feelings which is blatant toxicity. I've never been in a community that hates eachother so much. In comparison with other servers where players simply help eachother and move on. No one banned, everyone happy and outcome is ultimately more positive. 

[XeV]

1 minute ago, MrDisciple said:

@Bala As a criminal it is imperative for me and for others to see Player Reports and their outcomes. This is how we learn about the rules which we can most definitely not do from the rules. Criminals check through player reports everyday to stay up to date with the what Admins are banning people for. Where in comparison, I've met players in legal factions who've never even clicked on it.

The issue at hand is that reporting has become a way of revenge due to IC feelings which is blatant toxicity. I've never been in a community that hates eachother so much. In comparison with other servers where players simply help eachother and move on. No one banned, everyone happy and outcome is ultimately more positive. 

ive thought about this extensively for so long and its come to the conclusion of just as people have said, Lose the IC war, win the forum war, people get 0 repercussions for denied reports besides MAYBE if deemed worthy a petty report warning. I personally report if only SEVERE loss or I know if accepted I could put in a refund request for my stuff back or to cover the cost, but If i get rule breached on  and lose a .50 that's worth less then the 25k so ill drop a report in game but if it does not get picked up I just move on, maybe drop a lil PM explaining what they did wrong and just move on. I have had dudes rob and kill me at Oil mines and I pm'd them explaining the situation and why what they are doing is wrong and they like /b oh shit my bad I did not know my b, and they gave me my stuff back and left.

Nothing makes me more mad then when people complain that like the server pop is low or no one is logging in and they report people on the forums consistently. ALL WE ASK IS PLEASE follow the guidelines that are there for a reason and do what @MrDisciple said earlier why is never mentioned in any report along the lines of "And what was done OOCly to reach out and explain what the person did wrong and why it effected the RP so heavily".

Cause ima be honest and drop a hot take IDK why cops are reporting people when they die unless its blatant DM cause like the guidelines state "SEVERE LOSS". and having a spawned in loadout that cannot be "looted" seems a little less then severe

ALL in all ECRP has built a mindset inside the community of just win the forum war and you can win IC, Look at BSB for example an entire group banned twice for no reason other then the group reporting was the main enemy of the other. both Bans were appealed and accepted by Head admins but 2-3 months was already lost because of a report that was deemed wrong by a head admin when a Mod deemed it a rule break. And back then having a DM1 meant you had 1 more before you were perma banned so people walking on eggshells was VERY heavy.

[Ritchie Stones]

1 hour ago, MrDisciple said:

@Bala As a criminal it is imperative for me and for others to see Player Reports and their outcomes. This is how we learn about the rules which we can most definitely not do from the rules. Criminals check through player reports everyday to stay up to date with the what Admins are banning people for. Where in comparison, I've met players in legal factions who've never even clicked on it.

The issue at hand is that reporting has become a way of revenge due to IC feelings which is blatant toxicity. I've never been in a community that hates eachother so much. In comparison with other servers where players simply help eachother and move on. No one banned, everyone happy and outcome is ultimately more positive. 

simple reason for the bitterness is because materials and acces to materials are scars, not easy to optain and expensive, but you probly know that, your right about the reporting, i used to chek everyday in order to learn becuase the quiz as a first rp server interaction is sure not enough, it just take expierence to learn

[Requiem]

As a legal faction member, I can say I consistently check the forum reports everyday to keep up on server staff rulings on situations, both for situations that may have involved my faction members, and to educate myself. That being said, I don't know why this suggestion had any good reason to turn into an OOC toxic PD vs crim thread once again. I for one completely agree with the OP and I think reporting should be cut down and only used when necessary. It's really obnoxious when people take an L and immediately go to the forums for the W to make up for it. Reporting should be used as a last resort for sure.

To the people making the comments here about cops making reports, I will reiterate and say everyone should minimize reporting as much as possible, however, as a member of PD, if I see someone combat log to avoid arrest, or someone break fearRP when we have weapons pointed at them and they ignore it "cuz they know they won't be shot by cops", if we try to PM them (if possible even) and get no response or just arguement, then /report 4 in game, and get no staff response, what is the expectation here? Just ignore the blatant rule breaks that ruin not only the experience of those involved in the situation, but likely many others after due to a precedent being set? Just because someone in a legal faction isn't losing material goods in game, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to combat blatant rule breaks. As I said though, if someone in a legal faction takes an L ( e.g. gets killed in a shootout) doesn't mean they should go right to the forums. I can say personally, I have been involved in shootouts and have died more than a couple of times as a result, and never once reported it. IC actions should have IC consequences. If someone gets themselves in a position and get out gunned or out skilled, the L is deserved.  Same goes for illegal factions also. How about everyone gets treated the same? No need for the crim vs PD debates in a suggestion such as this. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Bill Breacher

[MrDisciple]

It's great to see some insight from experienced legal players like yourself and I think your statement says it all.

49 minutes ago, Bill Breacher said:

I think reporting should be cut down and only used when necessary. It's really obnoxious when people take an L and immediately go to the forums for the W to make up for it. Reporting should be used as a last resort for sure.

 

If a rulebreak can't be handled in game then of course a forum report can be made by anyone (PD or crim). However not everyone has your mentality @Bill Breacher of PMing them to fix it between yourselves, then doing a /report 4 and finally doing a forum if that doesn't work. Right now, players jump to the forums straight away with minor rulebreaks and 0 attempt to resolve the issue themselves.

 

In the Player Report Requirements it says "reserve player reports for situations that have caused severe loss" "Purposefully broke a rule" yet this is not enforced by staff creating a toxic win mentality environment.

This quote from report requirements should be a requirement: "Reporting another player should be reserved for your final options when a rule breach has occurred. Always try to teach other players in the community"

[Ranger]

Hello team,

We already issue "petty report" warnings to players who have posted reports that are deemed "petty" whereas, multiple staff members are inquired on this to ensure that the report truly is "petty", and a buildup of said warnings can lead to further punishment and/or the severity of said "pettiness" may weigh in as well per report. 

In the next staff meeting I will bring up a reminder that petty report warnings can be issued, but in short, this is a process that already exists.

And as always, if you believe a report was handled incorrectly, you may of course create a decision appeal for the report.

Locked & Archived.