Removing the Monopolies in ECRP

[KonaKealoha]

While I totally agree there needs to be more people out there tackling their dream jobs and starting their own competing companies, I believe that the individual needs to be the one to initiate it. If you have a cool idea like a new magazine or newspaper, start one, prove that you can provide quality and use the resources available right now like LifeInvader to create some hype. THEN if it's popular present the option to devs as to how to bring it to the next level. 

Start an uber company, get it licensed, buy a stretch or something, and make do... Then once it's popular present your idea to devs about finding a way to make it a faction and scripted. 

Basically, I agree with you but i think the effort on the individual needs to be made before the effort of the devs. 

[Bala]

I'm sorry like but criminal factions on an GTA RP server are a critical commodity. Even though they are usually different hex color versions of another group, they are needed for the ecosystem.

In terms of MPT, what could you offer that LSC couldn't offer for example? My point is that adding you as a official would potentially take customers away from LSC and there might not be enough customers to make both factions viable. There is then a potential impact on Bayview. If there are two mechanic factions in the city, are you then more likely to go to the city? As someone who spends 99% of their time in LS, only time I go to Bayview is if no one is at LSC.

Bayview has 70 members. LSC has 41.
That's the current system, they are not necessarily competition for one another, they are geographical conveniences.

An endeavour like MPT would work great in a system where instead of there being two big mechanic factions, there were individual garages in operation, like say 5-6 with say like 10-20 employees working each. Because then it becomes all about your relationship with players, your prices etc..

Same thing goes with cab companies. DCC has 53 people and an app.

I respect what you are trying to do but you can't really fight convenience. Same thing goes with someone wanting another News Faction. Do we really need MORE adverts in chat? I'd rather see more from Weazel than another Weazel.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Bala

[AnakinB]

-1 never thought I’d see myself say this but frankly isn’t this an ic issue? If you wanna see something like this implemented I think it should be done ic?

[KonaKealoha]

3 minutes ago, AnakinB said:

-1 never thought I’d see myself say this but frankly isn’t this an ic issue? If you wanna see something like this implemented I think it should be done ic?

Agreed, there's definitely enough opportunities and resources out there to start your own business ICly. I think citizens that want to start competing businesses against factions need to first show the initiate and prove that the server can support it, and THEN work on getting it scripted "I started this company, I get x amount of business, i've proven there's a need can you script in an app blah blah blah" 

[Buggs]

9 hours ago, Astrx said:

For Weazel competition there is room to be able to compete, it's just everyone think that you can only do it with scripts. This is not the case, there is now /fdo that can help so much with it and will be able to assist you with this business.

Weazel started off as a player ran business, no scripts only roleplay. They worked tirelessly to where they were granted official status and were worked with to be able to be where they are now. If they could do it you can to. And they excuse of "we have no newspaper or scripts", that doesn't matter because its all roleplay, use /fdo and word of mouth to your advantage.

It's clear you have not read through all the comments after reading what you've stated. Repeating the same thing others have said about how Weazel was a player ran business speaks to that fact. As it's been stated multiple times it would not be competition as it cannot offer the same services. @Pazz gave a great explanation.

Not only that, but once again. If you read the comments player ran businesses do not make money on this server. I have know night club owners, who end up losing money every time they open but still do it for the love of RP. I tried to open my own business as well but again it was for the love of RP and my character ended up losing about -1mil in profit cause it failed. Same thing with @Puzzling, and the list goes on and on. Try starting your own business that isn't script supported and see what it's like. It's not easy, and even if you beg you may still not be able to get help for some of the simplest things from admins.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Olivia Can

[Ronin]

 

Just an opinion about this all, the main idea here is that the job like weazel/DCC to have concurrence to not be the only ones in the market which is the problematic point pointed in this topic, for me this is makes total sense for different reasons, starting with the obvious facts of there will no other choice just that company and for whatever reason you could be blacklisted you will not be able to have that service again ( and the reasons could be so stupid sometimes) and the company operates the way it wants and there will not be any other alternative to it as for example it changes the prices as it wants etc etc etc ..

I saw a lot mentioning that it should be taken as a new business and build it up and give the example of MPT. The first thing is building a business especially to compete with a company that already exists and have all the materials to do the job already and the current runner of it just went through application, first rationally speaking who will for example call some private person with unknown materials to do an AD for him instead of going to weazel news? Second, building up such a business will require a lot of everything to aim for a result that is not sure.

About the example of MPT, first MPT did a really amazing job and achieved such a amazing point, but even after all the great work they did, MPT had to operate as a contractor sister company for bayview in order to be able to work in mirror park ( because it would not make sense if LSC will grant same materials for a company that will compete with her in her juro of operation), so lets say someone decided to do everything and build a company from the zero and somehow could compete and find a space to operate against a company that have everything ready given to their hands, in what basis it would make sense that the company offers the materials ( AKA scripts) to do her job and perform its duty, in other words how to get it RPly that weazel gave the line of information posting or DCC gave access of the phone app to that company to compete with her in the same juro ? that would make 0 sense at least…

One last thing, i like the example of bayview and LSC, which is one of the best example can be mentioned here, two companies operating in different places with different concepts and style of working, even employees when they didnt like to work at one of the places they had the opportunity to keep the job of mechanic but in another company.

So for me the idea is a +1 and needed 

[XeV]

I like that people brought up MPT as an example because I have been following MPT since the very beginning as an enthusiastic bystander because I enjoyed what @Puzzling was tryna do, when I first joined the server my goal was to open a mechanic shop and work on cars as I did this IRL and wanted to do it here. When I heard MPT got official I was over joyed at the fact that there was gonna be a racing crew mechanic shop. But obviously my joy turned into sadness to hear all about how it was an uphill battle to fight for some sort of script support and then to only become a smaller bayview that could only do repairs.

Like RP is supposed to be what you make of it, I would understand if it was like Gov restricting MPT and other types of competing business cause then it becomes an IC issue and could lead to some legal branch RP and court cases and trials and lawsuits etc...., but lowkey MPT been getting rawdogged OOCly, blows my mind that a racing crew whos whole drive is cars cannot scriptly Mod cars with their official status. Why is this a thing? is there a fear that LSC and Bayview will lose business cause MPT is more popular because they are interactive with the community and bring a story to tell with their business and lore.

The whole MPT thing upsets me greatly because them motherfuckers were GOING ham to get where they wanted, making a racing app on a 3rd party website, cinematics, forum stories, making tracks for races, setting up race events, but then they tried to get there and were told no with no room to expand past where they are now of just doing repairs. And it is easy to see the lack of motivation that happened and MPT went from hyperactive excited people with a goal and plans. to just a dwindling group of car enthusiasts trying to have some sort of fun with equal minded people.

all in all ECRP did MPT dirty and demotivated ALOT of people into "making their own business". If you rely on some sort of script support to enhance your experience your wasteing your time, but if you can do it without needing some OOC help its 100% doable.

Take our red deer blip store where we sell cooked meat and water the cheapest in the city for example. One day we got tired of burgershot and decided to make our own store and compete with burgershot 100% word of mouth and a weazel blip later we booming more then ever. dropping /fdo posters at major POI's, paying people cash for their raw meat so they do not get taxed.  Siitting at the bus depot to recruit new players into hunting for me or even just spreading word of the store through them.

 

[Buggs]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:39 AM, AnakinB said:

-1 never thought I’d see myself say this but frankly isn’t this an ic issue? If you wanna see something like this implemented I think it should be done ic?

How is script an IC issue?

[TheCactus]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:00 PM, Olivia Can said:

How is script an IC issue?

The options/opportunities/realities you mentioned do not require script support to be promoted and to function. Tidus Law did some effective advertising with his calendar and all he needed was a google account and talk to people IC to have them promote their own things. It is quite obvious that working and making money is not going to be as easy and effective as it is for an official faction such as weazel or dcc. That's why to us it is more of an IC issue.
If you were talking about being a mechanic I'd say yeah, you are right, lack of script to offer services to a player. OOC issue.

[Buggs]

12 hours ago, TheCactus said:

The options/opportunities/realities you mentioned do not require script support to be promoted and to function. Tidus Law did some effective advertising with his calendar and all he needed was a google account and talk to people IC to have them promote their own things. It is quite obvious that working and making money is not going to be as easy and effective as it is for an official faction such as weazel or dcc.

I've never heard of this ICly... on any of my characters. So... yes your idea works, but to actively reach everyone in ECRP, does it actually? No. @Puzzling tried to start the mirror park market place, which is the closest thing I'd consider to a "Weazel", but have you heard of that ICly? Probably not.

I think you all are missing the problem that I tried to bring up originally. These are monopolies. As the title states, the suggestion is to remove the SCRIPTED monopolies on the server and allow for other places to have the script access. Weazel is a scripted monopoly as NO ONE ELSE CAN OFFER THE SAME SERVICES. DCC is a scripted monopoly as NO ONE ELSE CAN OFFER THE SAME SERVICES. Yes, you can have people call your personal phone for rides, etc.

How do you hire other drivers though? Do you list it in your ad. all the numbers people can call? How do you put out ads if you're blacklisted from Weazel? How do you put up blips? Do you think someone is going to sit there and try to call someone, especially with the system being what it is now (aka you don't know if someone is online or not), wait for an answer, etc etc? /fdo only allowes for like 120 characters... and you can only fit so many ridesharing numbers on the poster before you run out of room.

No... so we have great business ideas and people with motivation to do it, but 0 script support.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Olivia Can

[AnakinB]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:00 PM, Olivia Can said:

How is script an IC issue?

idk why ur getting an attitude im just saying theres IC ways of going about things like this, if you want to compete theres IC ways of competing, if you have the IC rp you can oocly make a website that could be used IC, pretty sure a car dealership has something like that. You literally just have to go beyond whats easy if you want to compete, its not going to be easy but if done correctly you can lol

[KonaKealoha]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:44 PM, AnakinB said:

idk why ur getting an attitude im just saying theres IC ways of going about things like this, if you want to compete theres IC ways of competing, if you have the IC rp you can oocly make a website that could be used IC, pretty sure a car dealership has something like that. You literally just have to go beyond whats easy if you want to compete, its not going to be easy but if done correctly you can lol

I definitely agree with this. There's IC things you can do to compete and before anything gets scripted, an individual should be willing to put in the work it takes and use all resources at their current disposal to prove that there's a valuable service you're providing. You want to compete with Weazel? Build a website, write articles, get attention to it, and then you can start charging people for things like nice looking housing ads or classifieds or something... There's defintiely a lot of opportunities, and yes it all requires a lot of hard work, but if you really want to start a competing business you should be willing to put in the work. And in the future once you prove that there's a need for your services then you can come to the admins and demonstrate what can be done to improve things with scripts. 

[Buggs]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:44 PM, AnakinB said:

idk why ur getting an attitude im just saying theres IC ways of going about things like this, if you want to compete theres IC ways of competing, if you have the IC rp you can oocly make a website that could be used IC, pretty sure a car dealership has something like that. You literally just have to go beyond whats easy if you want to compete, its not going to be easy but if done correctly you can lol

I'm not sure how one sentence signals attitude, but there was no attitude intended. I apologise if it came off that way.

It appears as if we will have to agree to disagree @KonaKealoha for numerous reasons:

1. I have gone so far as to quote the FTC definition of monopoly, which falls directly inline with what Weazel and DCC currently are.
2. There have been numerous testimonials by people who have tried to create their own business that is not script supported in order to try to offer the same services as scripted jobs, and have failed. Effort plays 0 part into whether or not admins will scriptly support you eventually.
3. If you follow the current person trying to start a car washing business, you can see the IC and OOC struggles they're going to... simply to wash cars. They can RPly wash the car all they want to, but it will never be actually washed unless a script is implemented for the business.
4. As someone who tried to start a bike rental business myself,.. I asked admins if it was possibly for me to RPly stow away my bikes, but OOCly run them into the ocean. My character had purposefully bought the Mule with the ramp as a back door to move the BMX's back and forth, but because of GTA physics, they were teleported out of the back every time. I was denied this request and told it would be breaking server rules if I did that. It did not matter what RP I tried to do, I was literally unable to simply stow my bikes away so that I could pull a car out of impound. This led to Olivia abandoning the idea of a bike rental shop completely due to OOC reasons. I did not want to have to ICly call 5-8 friends to move my BMX's to an apartment complex, just to unpark a car from Mors Mutual. I had already done this a few times and it was getting quite old.
5. People have tried to start other marketplaces or IC means for people to place ADs besides Weazel, but most have failed or do not reach all audiences.

I'll leave it at those reasons, but it really helps for people to put themselves into others shoes and realise that saying "if you put the effort in, you'll eventually get support" doesn't really solve the issue as that is not the case.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Olivia Can

[AnakinB]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:18 AM, Buggs said:

I'm not sure how one sentence signals attitude, but there was no attitude intended. I apologise if it came off that way.

your all g it was the upside down smiley face

[N8TGK]

I quit the server a few months ago for exactly this reason, and now I'm going to quit again once again for exactly this fucking reason. 

 

This server is a perfect example of irl politics, play the party line or get obliterated and run out of town. Want to have some creative rp? oh too bad we don't like that here. Very sad because the community here is great but everything else is horrid

Edited November 30, 2022 by N8TGK

[Brayy]

-1, we barely have people operating these to begin with, why make more.

[Martin James]

-1

[Purely]

-1

Reading through most of the discussion I do agree that having multiple agencies along with the current factions, additional mechanics, another news network etc. would stretch the already limited number of players thinner, which I'm not sure would be a good thing. At Weazel, most of the enjoyment of the faction comes from the people therein, the more people on duty often the more interactions you can have which for me at least means more enjoyment. 

If you do wish to push for an independent faction which holds the similar characteristics to another, then by all means, but like it's been mentioned above, develop IC and then ask OOC for things to aid you and your forming faction with faction guides and LFM rather than asking OOC for reduction of already made factions.