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Josh Graham

The state of DOC

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As many prisoners know DOC is one of the worst places to be, 1 because your in prison but 2 because the guards are mostly shite.

What I mean by this is for example you will be locked in a cell when you arrive and you could be doing /shout let me out or /shout i need food and no guard will come to you because they don't care or something? 

Most DOC guards don't care about you and will just ignore you because it makes there life easier. 

I've seen a DOC riot guard shoot a prisoner 3 times with a shotgun because she shoved hi, she did not try stab him or anything, he just shoved her and because DOC guards don't care he took this as a time to have a power trip and put 3 shotgun rounds into her killing her.

I am certain this cannot just be me and I don't think is an IC issue, I think this is an OOC issue with maybe the guards being to board or because they are in prison they think they are "god" or smt so they don't care.

This is an example of them not caring about anything you try to RP or say, I got no response from DOC and the 3rd picture was proof there was many guards on duty, that pic was taken like 20 earlier.

I would like to know what others think about this

Let me know guys and girls 

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Hello. First of all we greatly appreciate any feedback for SADOC. We have a SADOC feedback form here: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=105084 so please let us know about negative or positive RP experiences.

From your post above we can tell that you had some issues, feel free to post feedback above or reach out to me on discord, Chunder#6108 and hopefully we can solve any poor roleplay!

 

I can personally vouch for the pictures above as literally all units on duty were dealing with one of our most troublesome inmates, pictured below, for a large amount of time and after that had been concluded we returned to the cellblock. Here's a picture from that RP:

DXUQN27.jpg

 

The prison is a large place! If we're not RPing with inmates then we're likely somewhere else training, teaching or engaging in other types of roleplay most of which you can see displayed in our faction thread:

 

Also if you have any development suggestions then post them here:

 

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27 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

As many prisoners know DOC is one of the worst places to be, 1 because your in prison but 2 because the guards are mostly shite.

I personally feel that the last comment is not needed. Our officers are held to a high standard of RP and at any time they are to not follow the rules I do hope that it's reported and handled correctly. However, openly saying they are "shite" isn't productive and just comes across as negative/rude. As Chunder said, she wants people to give the DOC feedback because even with our script limitations we have, we try to change things everyday. So you can reach out to him about this. 

35 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

What I mean by this is for example you will be locked in a cell when you arrive and you could be doing /shout let me out or /shout i need food and no guard will come to you because they don't care or something? 

Also, I am not sure if you understand that this is an IC issue. Officers have to deal with people attack each  other everyday. So, IC actions equal IC consequences. I don't know what else you believe we can do? If inmates attack us, if they attack other people; do we just ignore it and let people get away with their actions? 

 

40 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

I've seen a DOC riot guard shoot a prisoner 3 times with a shotgun because she shoved hi, she did not try stab him or anything, he just shoved her and because DOC guards don't care he took this as a time to have a power trip and put 3 shotgun rounds into her killing her.

39 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

I am certain this cannot just be me and I don't think is an IC issue, I think this is an OOC issue with maybe the guards being to board or because they are in prison they think they are "god" or smt so they don't care.

 

So again, this is IC. It's IC because it gets handled if people report it to us on an IC level. There is no OOC rule being broken if an inmate attacks us in any means. However, this would have an affect IC, if people were to reach out. I understand if people might get frustrated and we want everyone to have a good time. But, nothing we can do as there is no OOC issue here. 

50 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

This is an example of them not caring about anything you try to RP or say, I got no response from DOC and the 3rd picture was proof there was many guards on duty, that pic was taken like 20 earlier.

I think you need to understand that officer can't be around for every RP because out officers are RPing with each other and they are rping with other inmates. Officer would love to have RP happen and we look forward to it all the time. Many of the things we do relys on RP and we push for it as faction leaders all the time. We aren't "gods" and we aren't "shite", we are players too who are only trying. 

I ask again that you please be kind to what you say about our officers and that you really reach out to our faction leader @Chunder about any concerns you have. But, at the movement all I can see is IC issue that can't be dealt with on here. 

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Hey!, another DOC guard here, I don't have much to add since I believe Kimey and Chunder have covered everything in your post, but I would just like to add that I've been seeing many players in game complain about being put in a cell and "ignored" in ooc chat, so first of all this is an IC issue like Kimey said, since people being put into cells is always an IC consequence for an IC action, be it that you fought someone, threatened someone, you're an MSI, etc.

Another thing I could add is that in fact, DOC staff are held to a high rp standard and we always encourage everyone to give us feedback, but something needs to be cleared up and its that in the same way the criminal players are players the DOC staff are also players and we are learning daily and improving our rp and our faction daily.

I've also seen a lot of prisoners complain both IC and OOC about guards "just standing there" at the front desk, on their phones, etc. The thing is I'm not sure how many players are aware of this but DOC, PD, SD and other factions have paperwork to do much like in real life, so everything that we do we have to fill out a paperwork for it, be it that we processed you and we have to explain what items we found and your information, etc, speak about certain inmates behaviour, rp fixing stuff around the prison, and many other kinds of rp and paperwork, so if you ever see us standing around were probably doing paperwork, and trust me doing homework is not more fun than rping with other players so if your rp is being blatantly ignored most likely it means that theres something more urgent going on like in this case the Arya situation, otherwise we always try to rp with prisoners as much as we can, but we cant have people who are consantly fighting other prisoners out of cells as we did not join the faction to take people from the cellblock to medbay and from medbay to the cellblock and repeat, instead we have other many kinds of rp to take part in, some optional, some not optional (again to make sure our rp standard is high), as players we are aware that prison can be very frustrating and boring since most of us have criminal characters and have been in the same exact position as you, but at the end of the day prison is prison and we make it as fun as a prison can be.

I believe one of the major problems is the lack of transparency of what rp we engage in at DOC, as many players who only play criminal characters might not have any idea of all the paperwork rp that goes behind the ingame rp, and we are actively trying to fix that by making faction thread posts where we showcase our rp and such in a way for everyone to enjoy and get some insight from.

In the end all I would like to say is that even if we have a uniform in game or not we are all just players trying to enjoy our time, and me personally I respect all of the criminal players as they allow me to engage in my rp as a prison guard even when the criminal rp and options in the server might be stale or not as high standard as the legal factions (DOC, PD...), we try to take care of everything as much as we can, in game rping with everyone and trying to make things fun, doing paperwork so that everything is documented and realistic, answering in the forums like right now, and many more, Im sorry to the player that made this post if you felt like your rp was ignored and Ill keep trying my best and encourage my peers to do the same for the community and for all players, thank you very much!

-Daryl

 

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As a response to what everyone has said, I understand that you may be doing things elsewhere or you put prisoners in a cell for a reason, but I was not just talking about yesterday, I am talking about all the time.

A lot of the time you will arrive at DOC get put in a locked cell and sometimes not get let out for the entire time your in prison, even though you will be shouting and asking to be let out. As you guards said other people have this issue I am bringing up therefore I feel it is quite important.

I think this is an OOC issue as it requires the prison to be changed in some sort of way, if prisoners are shouting in there cells being asked to be let out but there is not a single guard around  because other things and going on in the prison like people doing paper work and teaching new guards and because of this they cannot hear prisoners somehow then I think its an OOC issue, I understand but still think that if your doing something else and you can hear prisoners shouting you should treat prisoners as a priority and stop what your doing to go deal with them as the prison is in place from guards and prisoners to RP with each other. But if you can hear prisoners shouting at each other and at you but you just sit there then that's both an IC issue and an OOC issue.

I think there needs to be something done to resolve people sitting in cells for 2 hours because guards wont let you out because they don't feel like it. I am not talking about people being punished I am talking about regular people who just get thrown in cells because other people misbehave or because there cell is locked of the start.

I would like if some other prisoners could give their opinion of this

 

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9 hours ago, Chunder said:

I can personally vouch for the pictures above as literally all units on duty were dealing with one of our most troublesome inmates, pictured below, for a large amount of time and after that had been concluded we returned to the cellblock. Here's a picture from that RP:

DXUQN27.jpg

 

As shown here as well, why is there so many guards at the location? She is legit covered by guards and cant move sand there is 4 guards on the outside of the circle doing nothing as to what I can see.

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37 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

I think this is an OOC issue as it requires the prison to be changed in some sort of way, if prisoners are shouting in there cells being asked to be let out but there is not a single guard around  because other things and going on in the prison like people doing paper work and teaching new guards and because of this they cannot hear prisoners somehow then I think its an OOC issue, I understand but still think that if your doing something else and you can hear prisoners shouting you should treat prisoners as a priority and stop what your doing to go deal with them as the prison is in place from guards and prisoners to RP with each other.

Majority of what you say here is IC. And my comments about IC actions is in relation to the whole of the time in prison. I have been a part of this faction for over 2 years now and I can assure you from my experience that DOC is not what you think it is. The only part I do agree with you on is that DOC is a place for guards and prisoners to RP with each other. But, if prisoners always want to RP attack DOC guards, we have to lock them up. Which again, is an IC issue. 

Just like any other faction, the prison has more RP they need to conduct other than looking after inmates. They have to deal with a large amount of stuff which again is IC. If you think we don't let prisoners out their cell because we "cba" or we just don't want to; then you are sadly mistaken. We again do it for IC reasons that every inmate just wants to attack and use violence as there only way to RP. Prison can be a lot to deal with when you are stuck in there for 2 hours at a time, but if your character commits a crime, get put into a maximum security prison and decides to misbehave then it's on your character. 

43 minutes ago, Josh Graham said:

because there cell is locked of the start.

This is something we can't help. If someone logs out and they are in a cell, and during the time they are logged out their cell is locked for another RP reason. They they unfortunately get locked in a cell. Which, if officers are around (which most time they are) will let them out. Again, DOC don't just lock people up because we don't want to RP. It's the opposite. We want to RP, but there is limited to what prisoners would like to RP. It's always straight to violence or attacking each other. So, our character act the way they can. 

I do have to ask though in all honesty. What RP do you want? What do you want to change? Because you are saying you want change, but not really saying what and how it can be done? 

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This is definitely a roleplay quality concern from the faction.

SADOC does not correctly portray the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. Look at their pinky hairstyles, lol. Which department would allow that? And correctional guards do not carry shotguns around, even less lethal. Also, as far as I'm concerned, correctional guards do not really provide any good roleplay to the inmates. They only do their jobs robotically —they take inmates, incarcerating them and done, nothing else—. Also, lethal shotguns against suspects? How is that not changed yet? They don't really provide any passive roleplay, conversations or interactions with an inmate like a real life guard probably would. Additionally, they also do unrealistic events like go-kart or parade (lol, what).

Overall, I think the roleplay quality should be improved.

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I honestly cannot say I've had any negative experiences while being in DOC custody, I've had bad experiences with PD not getting me a lawyer when asked for one but as for DOC it's been mostly fun RP, I wont lie a few newcomers have screwed up here and there but it truly has not been terrible as higher ups who know what they're doing have stopped and corrected them.

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1 hour ago, Thommy said:

SADOC does not correctly portray the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. Look at their pinky hairstyles, lol. Which department would allow that? And correctional guards do not carry shotguns around, even less lethal. Also, as far as I'm concerned, correctional guards do not really provide any good roleplay to the inmates. They only do their jobs robotically —they take inmates, incarcerating them and done, nothing else—. Also, lethal shotguns against suspects? How is that not changed yet? They don't really provide any passive roleplay, conversations or interactions with an inmate like a real life guard probably would. Additionally, they also do unrealistic events like go-kart or parade (lol, what).

Pink hairstyles were only really a thing when I ran the place, now it's only the odd one or two guard, but frankly it doesn't matter. The main reason I kept allowing colored hair was that it allowed for character individuality as the gta character maker is pretty limited. Basically I looked at how nearly every LSPD officer looks the same and how most LSSD look the same and thought, nah. Its a balance of realism vs game. And even then, there's limits on making things not look too...funky. 

Shotguns are limited ICly to specific ranks or divisions. There's no non-lethal ones, but all in all these get deployed in officer threat of life situations. If we're talking about realism, guards don't get attempted murdered multiple times a day in California prison (The current rate is 2.7 per 100,000. With 40% being intentional.). And even then, usage of firearms is monitored by faction higher ups as its mandatory to write a report about what happened and why when one is discharged. 99% of the time they're used passively to deter attacks, and once in a blue moon an attack happens and someone gets shot for it. In an ideal world beanbag shotguns or something would be used.

Making a claim that they don't provide passive roleplay is very wrong and misinformed. Just because you don't see it personally doesn't mean it happens.  The faction thread even highlights some of the passive roleplay you probably don't see but I'll list a few:

  • Groundskeeping and allowing inmates to assist e.g. cutting grass
  • There's a post even dedicated to the kind of paperwork they do
  • There's a post on FRD which is a big one that involves criminals

And that's just the ones they showcased. II know for a fact there's more things.


Finally, the pride parade was a server-wide event ICLy ran by the government that many other factions got involved in (LSEMS, bayview, LSC, DCC to name a few). They were only on duty for the vehicle part then had to be off duty for the actual party. Go-karting was an internal off-duty event between friends and coworkers not unlike IRL teambuilding days or whatever and just isn't relevant.
 

All that being said, if you have criticism or suggestions on an OOC level, scroll up to the post by @Chunder

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6 hours ago, Thommy said:

Look at their pinky hairstyles, lol. Which department would allow that?

6 hours ago, Thommy said:

Also, as far as I'm concerned, correctional guards do not really provide any good roleplay to the inmates. They only do their jobs robotically —they take inmates, incarcerating them and done, nothing else—.

I think Ash hit the nail on the head with his post, so there isn't much to discuss. But, I wanna bring up the fact that you say we are robotic, but then say we are a bunch of pinkies running a prison. Like said in the previous post. As long as the hair style isn't too distracting or unprofessional, we allow RPLY for the character to express their individuality. 9 times out of 10, PD/SD seem to all look very similar in the sense of their character model.

This bring me onto my other point of "SADOC does not correctly portray the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation". You are right! We aren't trying to be like an IRL department. Just like SD/PD/MD aren't either. You have to bare in mind, MD allow people with coloured hair too which is not allowed in a realistic setting. But, that's the thing, we aren't real life. There are aspects of realism in the server, but out faction are what we make it. 

The last point I wanna make and to expand what Ash said about our RP standards. You clearly haven't witnessed the level of RP DOC has! Majority of our faction division are RP heavy. 

  • Groundskeeping - Go around the prison RPing maintenance work:

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  • CMT - A whole division dedicated to medical RP for inmates and for officers:

55CLKM8.png

  • K-9 Division a whole division with roleplay with animals: 

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There are other aspects to the DOC which are more IC and we are really trying to push for more for inmates. We know that some RP is limited, but we find ways around it. We work with Legal Faction Management everyday to make sure inmate and officers are enjoy the RP in the faction. As KingsCallofDuty mentioned, if any RP quality is not a high standard, we make sure to handle this correctly. 

As @Chunder has made clear many time, you can always reach out here: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=105084 

Lastly! You can always watch one of our officers who is always live on stream the whole time he is on duty. This can give people an insight of what DOC is currently doing! https://www.twitch.tv/noctem_somnus

 

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On 6/23/2022 at 2:47 PM, Ash said:

Shotguns are limited ICly to specific ranks or divisions. There's no non-lethal ones, but all in all these get deployed in officer threat of life situations. 

Well, I've seen multiple occasions of unlawful use of force against inmates that seem to be normalized in prison like when a fist-fight fight breaks out, for instance, or when there is no reason at all as the original poster stated. Instead of using less lethal options like batons and tasers, shotguns were used. If the usage of less-lethal shotgun would be preferred, then the script should be added accordingly.

20 hours ago, KimeyBear101 said:

This bring me onto my other point of "SADOC does not correctly portray the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation". You are right! We aren't trying to be like an IRL department. Just like SD/PD/MD aren't either.

PD and SD have explicitly stated in their faction pages that they aim to portray their counterparts, the LAPD and LASD. PD has put a lot of emphasis in doing so as far as I know. SADOC should do the same to a certain extent. By portraying, I don't mean everything has to exactly be 1:1, but general aspects of CDCR should be taken into the faction's lore and everyday roleplay. 

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18 minutes ago, Thommy said:

Well, I've seen multiple occasions of unlawful use of force against inmates

There's many ic ways to address unlawful behaviour, especially from government workers. 

21 minutes ago, Thommy said:

By portraying, I don't mean everything has to exactly be 1:1, but general aspects of CDCR should be taken into the faction's lore and everyday roleplay

To play devil's advocate here, in real life doc guards aren't taken hostage daily and attacked on such a frequent basis. Portraying realism is a 2-way street in RP and sometimes sticking 100% to realism doesn't work but from what I know DOC does strive for realism where it can and once again, If there's suggestions as to how they can improve on that aspect:

On 6/23/2022 at 8:47 AM, Ash said:

that being said, if you have criticism or suggestions on an OOC level, scroll up to the post by @Chunder

 

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Ignore him @Ash - The DOC faction ain't at fault for jack shit of the problems with prison. 

Kourtney, Kimey, yourself (when you worked there), Steve, Audrey etc.. all do a great job with what little you have to work with.

If you wanna like.. colour your hair and have a little fun with things, go for it!

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I believe that the current issue with DOC is there is a big misconception on what DOC is, should be, the rp that gets provided and the rp that takes places between crims, doc, and leo in the server. 

Most crims believe that guards should be with prisoners 24/7 as they are truly the only roleplay that is not blatant DM and it feels shitty when the only other time that you see a guard beside being processed is when they are locking you down. 

At least in my experience with DOC as an LEO is that its just a short stop between dropping off a 15 and going back on duty. Most people just go in and out and dont interact at all and than dread actually having to deal with processing as you are knowing that you will most likely going to get DM'ed or ear raped.

And than DOC said what they want their faction to be and what else they do. So i am not going to repeat it. 

@KimeyBear101 @Ash @Chunder @Thommy

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