Adjust "Affiliation" Bans Along with Increasing Amount of Punishments Allowed

[checkky]

I'd like to note I'm only making this suggestion since it was implemented on the LTU ECRP Server

Here's the message from LTU ECRP Staff for reference:

 

Translated to: After we have talked with the administration and founders, we have come to a conclusion to increase the punishment amount because we noticed that a lot of fairly new and experienced players do various mistakes. We have decided to increase the amount of punishments by twice the amount meaning that if today it took 6 non rps to get banned, now it will be 12. Also, we would like to inform you that banned players that had 6-7 non-rps or 2 dms, 2-3 metagaming punishments or 2 combat logs - you can appeal your bans and they will be looked at accordingly (accordingly meaning to the new rules)

Most players are coming to conclusions that you need script on a roleplay server to have fun, however it's not always the case. Every old-school player misses the old times when ECRP (UK) would be at 600 players during "prime-times", and of coarse would agree this was the best time to play the server. Due the immense and fast decline in player count on the server, along with ECRP (LTU) founders (the same founders as the ECRP UK server) agreeing with this decision, it only makes sense to implement it to the ECRP (UK) server to help increase the player count. This could help a good amount of players who've been banned awhile back, or for "Affiliation" bans, have a second chance to come back. Along with the new drug update teasers, it could give some old players a chance to experience this update with the current players.

 

Possible Implementations:

• Increasing the amount of Non-RP from 6 to 8-10
• After the original 6-7 Non-RP punishment limit, to players coming back from their permanent punishments, every Non-RP punishment after that should be a temperamental punishment (such a one to three week ban), until they reach the max amount for a permanent ban.
• Increasing the amount of DM's punishments to a desired amount
• Increasing the amount of Metagaming punishments to a desired amount
• Increasing the amount of Combat Log punishments to a desired amount
• Adjust appeal flexibility on "Affiliation" bans from people: "Affiliation" of DSO / "Affiliation" to Not Here to RP Groups or "Affiliation" of High Command Not Here to RP Groups (TRCC, Narcos) /"Affiliation" of Meta-gaming
  • Anything "Affiliation" should be re-thought from a permanent ban to a temperamental ban
• Give banned players with 6-7 Non-RPs more leniency on their appeal
• Give banned players with 2 DM's more leniency on their appeal
• Give banned players with 2 Meta-gaming Punishments more leniency on their appeal
• Give banned players with 2 Combat Logs more leniency on their appeal

 

This does go along slightly with this Rule Suggestion:

It's the same server (only difference between the two is a server region), under the same founders, so why not implement the same rules.

Again, this suggestion is solely to assist the fast decline on the server's player count.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Checkky

[Bala]

It's a big no for me.
I'm all for punishment expiration and an overhaul of our current rules but this is just the same system with more chances to get away with not being banned.

You might have liked seeing 600 players in the server but I sure as hell didn't. It was a bunch of non rp driving bus drivers, people jumping on cars and it taking an hour to get a report called. The fast decline on the player count is in part because of the lack of updates. People get bored with the same old same. But it's also to do with the time of the year as well. 

Don't think we end up with a better server by giving rulebreakers more opportunities to break the rules and I'm certainly not inclined to want to give people that have left the server on bad terms the opportunity to come back if things improve. Fuck that, let them sit on the outside and rue their foolishness. Groups like the TRCC are as much of the decline in 2021 of Eclipse as a lack of a criminal update. No thank you.

Hackers should be permenantly banned with no appeal. Combat Loggers should be permenantly banned with no appeal. People leaking personal information should be permenantly banned with no appeal.

You don't build a house on unstable terrain or with shody materials. You build solid foundations first, then ad dto it.

[checkky]

18 minutes ago, Bala said:

Hackers should be permenantly banned with no appeal. Combat Loggers should be permenantly banned with no appeal. People leaking personal information should be permenantly banned with no appeal.

Never suggested allowing any flexibility on hacker's appeals in any kind of sense, as I fully agree that hackers or people leaking information should be banned permanently without an appeal. However there's a reason why I mentioned "Affiliation Bans" so much, as there's plenty of players with very clean admin records that cannot see themself coming back to something small as "Affiliation" with another player.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Checkky

[Umbra_Smith]

@SkatzPlease translate the original text, thanks

[Martin James]

-1 from me to be honest.

I think it would be a short term fix to a long term problem, that would ultimately have a detrimental effect on the quality of the server.

If the goal is to increase the number of active players in the server, then this is not an easy fix, I agree with Bala above in most of the points he made. I'd hate to see the server increase by several hundred players that have 9 or more Non-RP warnings, or several DM punishments, or MG etc. Major updates is the way to keep people engaged , and make them stay around for longer.

One thing I would say is that their seems to be some what of an inconsistency in punishments from admins, maybe that should change in some way IDK.

[Neophite]

I think honestly it is okay to have 6 NonRPs and get banned same with 2 DMs, but I think they shouldn't last forever if they appeal after 30 to 60 days. Some forgiveness should be given towards them because they learned there lesson. I agree MassDM, Hacking, sharing private info, should all be permeant. But some people that just messed up a little shouldn't be banned for months on end. Especially since playing as a criminal has very many grey areas. I would love to see this at least taken into consideration. It would be nice to see some of the more players come back from honest mistakes they have made. 

Over all I give this a +1

[dominykas]

+ for regular punishments.

- for:

• Adjust flexibility on "Affiliation" bans from people: "Affiliation" of DSO / "Affiliation" to Not Here to RP Groups or "Affiliation" of High Command Not Here to RP Groups (TRCC, Narcos) /"Affiliation" of Meta-gaming
  • Anything "Affiliation" should be re-thought from a permanent ban to a temperamental ban

[Miky]

Personally I think this is the only way to bring back the old/new player base on the server at this time. 
HUGE +1 from me

[pasha9]

1+
 

[oskarscot]

I think certain punishments should expire, especially if they were made during your new player period

[checkky]

Bump

With all of the updates coming out, I still firmly believe that this would aid the player count drastically. It'd give banned players coming back a refreshed experience, and hopefully a different outlook on the server with the new/upcoming implementations.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Checkky

[Howey860]

+1 would make a huge difference

[retronub]

+1

I understand that it is a quality > quantity situation on the server, but when the server is peaking at 180-200 players, as opposed to the 500-600 it used to be, there's clearly an issue here. The whole point of the last few recent updates is to increase the interaction between players, but when I'm driving in Paleto and seeing only 1 mechanic at Bayview and 1 SD on duty, how can I interact with anyone? Drug labs are fully empty, with no one even collecting the plants that grow there. Chop shops are completely abandoned. Previously populated areas like the pier are completely empty. On my PD alt, I'm sat driving about the city with absolutely no RP opportunities. When a 10-55 is called on someone speeding 10kmph over the limit, everyone on duty will respond to it. It goes to show how boring the server has gotten and any player will jump on any possible opportunity they have to roleplay because of how small the server population has gotten. I get that we don't want people who have provided nothing but bad to the server (DDOS attacks, exposing private information, DSO videos, hacking etc), I'm completely against those types of people coming back. But allowing those who made silly mistakes back should be taken into consideration. Even put them on a one strike and you're done basis, just anything to make the server population increase so there's more opportunities to interact with others. There's no RP without players. The LTU server saw a boom in the number of active players when the same thing being discussed here was implemented, so what's stopping us from doing it here too?

[checkky]

Quote

The whole point of the last few recent updates is to increase the interaction between players

Quote

Drug labs are fully empty, with no one even collecting the plants that grow there.

Quote

a 10-55 is called on someone speeding 10kmph over the limit, everyone on duty will respond to it.

It's disappointing that interactions with players are declining also. Script can only help keep players active for so long temporarily, rather than upkeeping the player base that can help increase activity in players for the long-term.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Checkky

[Yeager]

+1

 

[Dola]

+1 Everybody but hackers and Mass DMers should be brought back. I have 3 DM punishments and was banned twice. First ban lasted 4 weeks (DM #2) and after 2 weeks back into the server I got banned for 2nd time which lasted 6 weeks (DM #3). I was allowed back into the server for the 2nd time around 7-8 months ago and have learned my lesson and I feel like i contribute positively to the server. So if i can be giving 2 chances to come back after few weeks off, then people that are not as lucky as me to be given a chance after spending multiple months away from the server should also be given leniancy. 

How low does the player count have to go before people realise its not just the lack of updates but how harsh the punishments are. I couldnt even estimate how many players are banned its probably that high. 

I heard player count use to be 600+ at peak times. When i joined 12 months ago it was around 400 at peak times and now the player count is on average 250 at peak times. A year from now it will probably be around 150 and I dont even think these updates will make it go up. 

We are never going to be a high tier roleplaying server. The server is so strict and anytime you wont to do some crim shit you cant because your always thinking of "am i allowed do this?". So many ooc guidelines restricting us from having fun. 

[Bala]

The bringing back rulebreakers card gets used on every role-play server as a last resort and the reason that it's a last resort is that the community it's used in usually folds soon after.

It's not unbanning those that have fucked up, it's making those that play here and within the rules feel like this is their community, come rain or sunshine.  Building the server and the rules on their backs.

As for the player count, to be honest with you, there was a global pandemic. People had nothing to do but sit home and play video games so of course the population was high.

I fucking hated when we had 500-600 people on the server and you know why? Because it was chaos, the amount of rulebreakers and poor roleplayers that were running around was awful. There is only a very small collection of servers that can maintain a high standard and a high player count. For us, I think the support staff were overwhelmed with apps and the standard got away from them.

I agree with your last point and I think it's extremely counter productive when people are almost talking about a completely different server to the one we actual play. 

Community could use a real momentum shift and get everything pointing in the same direction, because at times we're all over the place. We need a strong, uniting figure to decide what Eclipse is actually supposed to be but I just don't see that.

[Illmohim]

+1

ECRP is not the same as before, when I had joined the server peaked and you would RP with everyone, as Wellers had stated I get pulled over for going 10 over the speed limit and 2 seconds later I have air 1, jugular and 3 scouts waiting behind me for 0 reasoning. Everyone is bored, updates are nice but wont increase player count. the old player base was very good and I understand you don't want to unban people like LTU as there is over 100+ pages of bans but ECRP is on a steady decline, you guys say Quality < Quantity and I respect that but with the Quantity in an RP server like eclipse comes the Quality. 

The server had lost so many valuable people and people of which have contributed to the community positively just to get banned for the slightest of punishments. I hope you guys do go over this thread and think about everything overall. The server is amazing its just there is no quality RP as there is no RP at all. I log in for 2-3 Hours just to drive around and go park and then turn off the game. 

The server was good as it was back then and I believe the strictness of the server should go down to some extent even if it was rules or the quality of RP or even the amount of punishments, The server is there to provide fun for those playing and now people are just walking around or driving around aimlessly. We appreciate everything your doing but we hop you do take this into consideration. 

[Illmohim]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

As for the player count, to be honest with you, there was a global pandemic. People had nothing to do but sit home and play video games so of course the population was high.

I fucking hated when we had 500-600 people on the server and you know why? Because it was chaos, the amount of rulebreakers and poor roleplayers that were running around was awful. There is only a very small collection of servers that can maintain a high standard and a high player count. For us, I think the support staff were overwhelmed with apps and the standard got away from them.

There is no RP, and no it wasn't only because of the pandemic. the server right now at these early times can easily achieve 250 but were sitting at 95. I know so many people of which have been banned and its kind of sad. They play games and if they were given the chance to play ECRP they would but they cant. 

The pandemic is still here and yes there is no quarantine but people still play games mate. ECRP can achieve way more with leniency and you say all of that about "quality of RP" but I can tell you a fact that everyone wishes ECRP was back as it was. It wasn't chaos it was quite frankly normal, FiveM is chaos or the other RP servers on Rage are chaos, ECRP only provided fun for those who play it and I can only speak for myself but those 500-600 peak times were the best thing that happened to eclipse in my opinion. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Illmohim

[Bala]

I think the vast majority of the people banned deserved it and it’s for the betterment of the server/community that they aren’t here anymore. 

There are individuals that deserve a second chance but a lot of people that do not, bans are case by case. blanket unban does not work. It’s like instead of flushing the toilet, you take the water out and pour it back in again. 

Just put a little bleach down and hit the flush. 

[Cyrus Raven]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:23 PM, Bala said:

I think the vast majority of the people banned deserved it and it’s for the betterment of the server/community that they aren’t here anymore. 

There are individuals that deserve a second chance but a lot of people that do not, bans are case by case. blanket unban does not work. It’s like instead of flushing the toilet, you take the water out and pour it back in again. 

Just put a little bleach down and hit the flush. 

Blanket unbans don't work, but the same applies on the flip side. 

I don't know whether I would +1 all of the points in the main suggestion thread, but there has to be significantly more leniency given in the cases of NRP, Fear RP, DM bans. 

Roleplay is exactly about that, RP. Not ruelplay. I don't want to imply a doomsday scenario, I don't think that the majority of permanent bans for these reasons were necessarily given wrongfully. There are certainly people and groups who committed mass DM and these aren't events that can be ignored (although even these should be appealable after a while). 

 

However, with RP comes the likelihood and I would even argue eventuality that there will be rulebreaks, some of these happen unintentionally and some because of the heat of the moment. 

 

Hypothetically, I don't think a player who has x6 DM charges that were given out during chaotic gang shootouts should ever be banned, especially if the nature of the reports are with regards to motivation for shooting. On the other hand, one new player walking up to MRPD and randomly stabbing everyone around should be permanently banned.

It should be heavily based on a case by case basis based on the situation and context and not on whether a player has met the target number of offences for a ban or not.

 

Likewise, affiliation bans are equally as bizarre. Having people getting banned for being associated with a group or certain individuals has the consequence of getting long time seasoned players with an ok/clean record caught in the crossfire, something that I have personally witnessed twice.

These types of bans are arguably worse on the community because they might involve serious topics such as doxxing and defamation of specific individuals within the community which means the bans will be harsher (full ban, with no access to forums for appeal or discord) and the area of affect greater (otherwise innocent players caught in the crossfire). These types of bans grow into resent towards the server staff.

 

TL;DR bans shouldn't be based on a threshold of offences but an analysis of the situation(s). Affiliation bans should always be appealable on the forums and careful consideration should be given to those who are doing the rulebreaks vs those who were "caught in the crossfire"