Change 6.4 - 6 in rules.

[Kaii]

Basically in the rules. It DIRECTLY contradicts as to what powergaming is.

 

Powergaming rules from a popular SA:MP server that has done PG right for a long time;

Powergaming can be defined as performing acts that are not humanlike; forcing roleplay on others without giving them a fair chance; making up things which did not happen so that you can benefit; roleplaying things which are not possible script-wise so that you can gain an unfair advantage.

Example:

Roleplaying that an item is not on you ICly when it is already on you script-wise. (e.g. during frisks).

I watched a man in PD get frisked, they RP'd that he had a fake ID on him even though info matched on the database and the license. He has to serve 3 hours for literally nothing but PG from the officers involved because they FORCED roleplay on to him, which he didn't want, they forced him to have a fake ID through PG.

Also police and I assume everyone else on the server don't have to RP grabbing your arm, literally not giving you a fair chance.

The rules for PG on this server are as follows.

Roleplaying something unrealistically ridiculous or forcing roleplay actions on other players by using the /me command is not allowed and is classed as power gaming. Forceful server commands, such as, /cuff or /mug are not considered as powergaming. You are literally not roleplaying and inputting a command when you /cuff or /mug someone, people can resist in real life and should be able to in game. Anyone with common sense of what PG is can clearly see that FORCING a command and putting their character in a RP situation is literally forcing roleplay actions on another.

The player should have time to react just like in real life. Same with grabbing someone whilst cuffed, the person could begin running upon being grabbed or something a like. You literally give no room to resist at all, don't come at me with that bullshit that, "if you were in that situation in real life you wouldn't try and run." My brother did just a year ago, literally ran from police and continued to fight back when they pinned him down and he isn't even a criminal. I could imagine a criminal that possesses a gun that has since been taken away, a person that could go to jail for a long time wouldn't just give up and be like "Oh well I guess the caught me, golly gosh darn I better comply." No, they would fight back.

 

Basically all I'm saying is. If you want a roleplay server allow roleplay and allow a fair chance cause if you get caught by PD, you have zero chance because there is not a single rule that prevents them from PGing. Even if you reject this, I'd love to know the reason as to why you are against this before you reject it so we can have a debate.

[aon]

Although it may not be in the server rules, the PD itself has an OOC rule against powergaming - they don't just /cuff and /drag someone instantly, unless the player they're doing it to is refusing to roleplay, being toxic, etc.  If you are actually willing to RP with the police in a realistic manner, they will absolutely give you the chance to resist in most of the situations. There was even a video where it took three officers about 5 minutes to RPly drag a criminal into their cruiser, because he was roleplaying that he was resisting, and the PD was giving him the opportunity to do so for the sake of good roleplay. It all depends on the effort you put in - if an officer asks you "/do Do you resist?" don't just say "/do yes", add roleplay to it, for example "/do Yes, clenching my arm near my chest, it would be hard for the officers to put it behind my back". I hope you understand what I mean. If what you're suggesting would be added to the server rules, it would just give more time and excuse for toxic non-rpers to start chicken running around, sprinting full speed after just being tazed while cuffed, etc. The fact that those commands in question are not powergaming, is the only way for PD to deal with trolls - a bus starts ramming everything around, they get into a chase, the bus stalls, officers try to use /do's to try and roleplay the "/dragout" mechanic, what do they get in response? The bus driver spam starting his engine and driving over the cop with no roleplay whatsoever. Imagine this happening every day, twice to five times a day, and see if you wouldn't get tired of it after a week. Next time that officer encounters something like that again will just do /dragout /cuff /drag /jail, they shouldn't be forced to roleplay with a person who is refusing to do so, and you really can't blame them. And most of the officers I know still try to roleplay the situation, for example John Wallace, James Forest, and honestly at least half of the PD, I've never seen them drop their roleplay on ANY situation. If you have at least some knowledge on how to roleplay, I guarantee that you will get a response. I've seen Officers even guide new players on how to RP through /b. However, if there are officers that abuse this, I have known a few in the past, inform high command in the PD, I'm sure they'll take it seriously and will review your case accordingly, assuming you've got the proper evidence to support your claim. The PD is enforcing a high level of roleplay and should be an example for every player in the server.

This is just my opinion, I would like to know how other players feel about this, since I was in the PD for 3 months I am biased, I might have not seen the "dark side of PD" or whatever the hell someone called it the other day.

[Rajj Sikyhar]

25 minutes ago, aon said:

Although it may not be in the server rules, the PD itself has an OOC rule against powergaming - they don't just /cuff and /drag someone instantly, unless the player they're doing it to is refusing to roleplay, being toxic, etc.  If you are actually willing to RP with the police in a realistic manner, they will absolutely give you the chance to resist in most of the situations. There was even a video where it took three officers about 5 minutes to RPly drag a criminal into their cruiser, because he was roleplaying that he was resisting, and the PD was giving him the opportunity to do so for the sake of good roleplay. It all depends on the effort you put in - if an officer asks you "/do Do you resist?" don't just say "/do yes", add roleplay to it, for example "/do Yes, clenching my arm near my chest, it would be hard for the officers to put it behind my back". I hope you understand what I mean. If what you're suggesting would be added to the server rules, it would just give more time and excuse for toxic non-rpers to start chicken running around, sprinting full speed after just being tazed while cuffed, etc. The fact that those commands in question are not powergaming, is the only way for PD to deal with trolls - a bus starts ramming everything around, they get into a chase, the bus stalls, officers try to use /do's to try and roleplay the "/dragout" mechanic, what do they get in response? The bus driver spam starting his engine and driving over the cop with no roleplay whatsoever. Imagine this happening every day, twice to five times a day, and see if you wouldn't get tired of it after a week. Next time that officer encounters something like that again will just do /dragout /cuff /drag /jail, they shouldn't be forced to roleplay with a person who is refusing to do so, and you really can't blame them. And most of the officers I know still try to roleplay the situation, for example John Wallace, James Forest, and honestly at least half of the PD, I've never seen them drop their roleplay on ANY situation. If you have at least some knowledge on how to roleplay, I guarantee that you will get a response. I've seen Officers even guide new players on how to RP through /b. However, if there are officers that abuse this, I have known a few in the past, inform high command in the PD, I'm sure they'll take it seriously and will review your case accordingly, assuming you've got the proper evidence to support your claim. The PD is enforcing a high level of roleplay and should be an example for every player in the server.

This is just my opinion, I would like to know how other players feel about this, since I was in the PD for 3 months I am biased, I might have not seen the "dark side of PD" or whatever the hell someone called it the other day.

god damn you really put effort in that xD

[Kaii]

5 minutes ago, aon said:

PD to deal with trolls

Yeah that is fair enough, if they are trolls they should be reported and dealt with out of character and if they are needing to be tazed/cuffed for example then they should be, an admin should always be contacted though in that situation, a player (cop in this case) shouldn't need to break a rule. Since this is voice chat as well, people generally think if you are roleplaying as anything out of the ordinary or you are insulting their characters in game that you are toxic or trolling. A lot of people seem to think because I say, "Fuck you, you'll never capture me you commie fuck!" that I'm either trolling or being toxic to them OOC. Which I'm not, I'm roleplaying as someone who is very clearly mentally unstable. Whilst some people I've came across RP'd accordingly, others took it OOC personally and I even got arrested for trespassing, even though I was attempting to hand in my tickets, lets not get into that though. It is common sense that if the person is running away or driving away and you have no time to RP, you don't RP. But for stuff like attempting to cuff, they should be given a fair chance, just like anyone in the real world would. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention the server name, you can always edit my comment. But the SA:MP server, LS-RP, has had this in place for a while now. If it is something like pulling out a weapon whilst someone is typing out some roleplay, you give them some time to react, same applies for driving away in a vehicle since some people may not be touch typing, they may not be looking at their keyboard. If a cop writes you a ticket but as he is doing the /me for this ticket and you decided to drive away, obviously in real the cop would instantly run for his cop car and wouldn't be waiting (aka typing).

I kinda find it hard to what I'm getting across but basically in the current rules, they clearly allow for powergaming because you are forcing roleplay on someone without punishment when you should. Especially for cases in which it makes you go to jail (basically being unable to RP for an extend period of time), getting you killed or just cuffing you up because someone knows how to type a command. If the person is stopped, and you attempt to cuff them, meaning they are not running away, you are both static, you allow them to react instead of just doing /cuff or a   "/b hey can you please to /up so I can cuff you?" which by the why, I've seen A LOT of officers do this exact thing.

[aon]

@Kaii Please provide a clear example of officers abusing those commands, with context, and it goes for everyone, really, if you have a clear case of a member of the PD abusing this command, and not for the reasons I've mentioned in my previous post, it can be brought to discussion then. If there is none, then either all officers have avoided 80% of the playerbase who have a shadowplay and can record a clip, or this change would be meaningless and unnecessary. It would only complicate things.

I'm also not talking about that type of toxic roleplay. I'm talking about the "I'll do everything to get away mentality", IC that's totally fine, but when people start abusing OOC things like GTA V mechanics, chicken running, taser sync and sync in general, basically total ignorance of RP, that's what I mean by toxic roleplay.

Also, an admin is not always available or willing to look over roleplay situations. If there was an admin request to every single PD situation, not only would it destroy immersion, the admins would go totally insane in a matter of days.

Also, GTA V mechanics are way different than that of SA:MP. For example, we have VOIP, we have things like animations, better and more immersing scripts, etc. actually TYPING a roleplay response is pretty rare.

Lastly, 

Quote

basically being unable to RP for an extend period of time

I don't agree with your statement here. As long as you're logged in, the RP is not stopped by an moderator+, you're not in ADMIN jail or you're not on admin duty, you are in-character, you are roleplaying. Jail, prison, anywhere, you still should attempt to roleplay to some extent. Now of course, nobody expects you to hold a high standard of RP while serving a 4 hour jail sentence, it's totally fine to watch a TV show on your second monitor, and if someone starts interacting with you in jail/prison, you respond to them. I just don't want you to treat jail/prison as an OOC thing.

[Pazz]

2 hours ago, Kaii said:

I watched a man in PD get frisked, they RP'd that he had a fake ID on him even though info matched on the database and the license. He has to serve 3 hours for literally nothing but PG from the officers involved because they FORCED roleplay on to him, which he didn't want, they forced him to have a fake ID through PG.

I'd like to chip in here stating that I worked this out with the individual that had this placed on his record and ended up removing this charge due to him not being aware of the roleplay that was actually going on, he ended up serving 2 hours for both his IC-charges and punishment as he left the server while being arrested.

[SoloSmith]

Just wanted to post this here. I'm sure it's very frustrating when an officer cuffs and drags without roleplay. Given the chance, we'd love to RP it out fully but it's seldom the case. Check out the video below. This is an example of what happens when we try to RP those commands. I would say this situation happens in 7/10 arrests:

This entire situation lasted close enough to 60 minutes. Even after the long chase, huge run, multiple tazer shots. We still attempted to properly RP the arrest. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by SoloSmith

[Howgate]

I am the guy arrested for the fake ID. I was walking on the pavement outside the pd where I was told to leave as I was trespassing... on a pavement..  they taxed me and took me inside where I was met with a /me bends the ID /do would it snap?. I thought to myself maybe he is snapping my weapon permit so I said yes as I was down to role play. Next thing I know I'm going down for a crime I didn't commit because the cadet arresting me thought I was "toxic" fair to say after also being made to wait close to an hour for a cruiser to pick me up after telling the officers that I needed to go soon and I would like them to get me processed as soon as possible they ranted at me for engaging in roleplay that i could not finish even though it went on for over an hour. Fair to say when my real life calls my games go off so I logged from the situation receiving admin jail time and a strike. If I'm being punished for being forced into bullshit rp by bored lonely little cadets that seem to have a problem with somebody they have never met so be it but I agree that if they want to rp a fake is they should state that in the /do or the /me prior to me answering.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Howgate

[Howgate]

I would like to add that given the the fact I didn't do struggling he dragged me around for the full hour with maybe 5 minutes of freedom in the cells. Not a great thing to see when a cop rp is that bad

[SoloSmith]

Scratch that.

Edited September 26, 2017 by SoloSmith

[aon]

@SoloSmith's video sums up my point completely.

[Kaii]

3 hours ago, aon said:

@SoloSmith's video sums up my point completely.

No, I totally get this. This is a good point and obviously you can't RP in that position but this is not the situation I'm talking about. But if someone wants to roleplay they should be given the chance not just instantly cuffing them, if they are running and don't want to RP then fair enough but if they are attempting to roleplay and you don't give a chance to then why should they play on a server that literally has roleplay in the name when no one roleplays?

Edited September 26, 2017 by Kaii

[aon]

Will not be changed