IC age and LifeInvader

[_tiidus_SOTG]

This is first ever rp server, so I am learning new stuff all the time. Why are civs allowed to RP underage characters? i think it's kinda creepy anyone would want to play an 18 below character. I mean, I can understand there are underage people playing the server (maybe that should be looked at but I digress) but do these underage ic character have licenses? drive cars? If so, doesn't seem like good rp and maybe they need to make some changes. This is a weird line of legality here but when I play, my ic is my ic but not sure everyone is mature enough to make that distinction. Being my first rp, I never thought people would make an underage character. I would not have known this was the case but some people made a nonce hunter group on LifeInvader. How can that be if everyone is 18+. Weird, creepy idea. I am very excited to have the LifeInvader app but I can see this going in directions it should not. Hope this is closely monitored. 

[Flucifial]

Age range of people on the server is all over the place. I've seen 9 year olds and I've seen 50 year olds and I've had great RP with all kinds of people. There are no OOC or IC age limits, and there most definitely should not be an IC age requirement. No reason to limit RP. I personally don't find it weird or creepy at all that people choose to RP underage characters. If someone's RP isn't good (ex. 10 year old w/ drivers license, 6 year old Lifeinvader influencer, etc.) that's unfortunately on them and if it gets to a point of being unrealistic or just straight up poor RP, it can be looked at as a rule violation. At the end of the day, a nonce hunter group on Lifeinvader is IC as Lifeinvader is a completely IC platform, for all you know it could be a group of trolls who falsely label people as "nonce's." All server rules do apply to Lifeinvader, and if roleplay ever becomes sexual or gross, or involves torture, OOC consent is required from all parties involved. 

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Flucifial I respect your opinion but totally disagree. The "any" IC age is very open to ooc abuse, Also, if you can be any age and drive, than that's not RP.  I mean how can someone RP a 13 year old who drives. That's not logical. There is also the distinction of lack of maturity for OOC younger people playing (sorry but true..younger people don't have fully developed brains and can't make the best distinctions all the time) the game in which they could not have the maturity in a situation and try to get someone in trouble ooc for action ic, I personally leave ic to ic but does everyone else?  That is a very dangerous line. As per concerning, the creep nonce group (and it's creepy asf), that could be used to harass people ic and that would immediately become ooc harassment on a player not letting them play the RP. This is something that definitely needs to be looked at further. I do like the fact you mention ooc consent. That is a very valid point. It doesn't change my thoughts but it's a point. I think this needs to be looked at further, no doubt

[Flucifial]

48 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

As per concerning, the creep nonce group (and it's creepy asf)

This kinda plays into your point though - you need to be able to make that distinction between IC and OOC. If you're getting creeped out OOCly by an IC group, then you're failing to make that proper distinction (Not to say you feeling creeped out isn't justified, but it does mix between IC and OOC).

48 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

Also, if you can be any age and drive, than that's not RP.  I mean how can someone RP a 13 year old who drives.

As I said before, if roleplay gets to a point of being unrealistic or poor, it can be considered non-roleplay and therefore a rule violation. Powergaming could possibly play into it as well. 

48 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

There is also the distinction of lack of maturity for OOC younger people playing (sorry but true..younger people don't have fully developed brains and can't make the best distinctions all the time) the game in which they could not have the maturity in a situation and try to get someone in trouble ooc for action ic

If you come across players that lack OOC maturity, that's their problem, not yours (no offense). You're gonna have mature players and immature players, age can play into it but there are trolls of all ages . There are plenty of mature players of younger ages on this server that follow the rules and have a great time just as everyone else tries to, and creating rules or limits based on generalizations is a no from me. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Flucifial

[Lester Acosta]

1 hour ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

This is first ever rp server, so I am learning new stuff all the time. Why are civs allowed to RP underage characters? i think it's kinda creepy anyone would want to play an 18 below character. I mean, I can understand there are underage people playing the server (maybe that should be looked at but I digress) but do these underage ic character have licenses? drive cars? If so, doesn't seem like good rp and maybe they need to make some changes. This is a weird line of legality here but when I play, my ic is my ic but not sure everyone is mature enough to make that distinction. Being my first rp, I never thought people would make an underage character. I would not have known this was the case but some people made a nonce hunter group on LifeInvader. How can that be if everyone is 18+. Weird, creepy idea. I am very excited to have the LifeInvader app but I can see this going in directions it should not. Hope this is closely monitored. 

I agree there should be limitations on what underage players should do such as an older man going for a younger, under-aged female which we can all agree is not enjoyable role-play and is nowhere near an example of the ideal role-play scenario that one wants to see. However, I do not agree with the OOC age limit. There are rules in place that prevent younger players from bringing any form of OOC immaturity into IC and ultimately ruin immersion for other players. That would just be very unfair for younger people who are just trying to experience some decent role-play here on EclipseRP and I suspect that you are above the age limit and have a very biased opinion. Furthermore, I'm sure if statistics were pulled you would see that a vast majority of the player-base is made up of younger players. Lastly, if it were to be implemented like you are suggesting, a lot of younger people whom spent hours on the server would be robbed of their experience and what they built because a part of the player-base didn't want them to be part of their role-play on EclipseRP.

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Lester Acosta Actually that is totally not true. I have no bias at all. My ic character is 18 and I just happen to turn 18 in real life, so I totally see both sides of it very well. I don't bring a bias into a discussion as I just thinks it doesn't help at all. I do agree there are rules to prevent ooc immaturity but like many rp rules here that are broken, the potential of these to be broken are large and than it doesn't come down to a banning issue but a legality issue and that goes beyond this server.  Well, I do agree they would be be robbed but life is full of things for age restrictions to keep others safe. I don't personally have an issue with anyone of any age, race, gender, or sexuality as I I treat everyone fairly as long as they are mature. I was just surprised to hear (and a little weirded out) that people would want an underage ic character and that exists). I think in this world, which is clearly adult, there is really no need for it. I am also not taking credit for this thought. It has been said many times, so I am not the only one that feels this way. i think, at the very least, it's up for discussion. As I told the other guy, i respect your opinion. I just don't agree.

[Flucifial]

9 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

the potential of these to be broken are large and than it doesn't come down to a banning issue but a legality issue and that goes beyond this server

Just curious, but when you say legality, what exactly do you mean? I'm just kind of confused what exactly you're asking for here. 

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Flucifial I agree with point two and three totally. I would say with your first statement. me being creeped out I would say is per mostly IC because the group brings nothing RP to a server designed to RP. I mean the only reason to have a group like that would be to harass people and than it carries over to ooc, which is an issue. If you allow this, than we can allow hate groups as well? That's a very dangerous road to go down IC or OOC. I am not personally worried about being creeped on (I can handle myself ooc) I just mentioned it for others who may not be able to distinguish and I would never want any person (of any age) to be feel disrespected in any way, which I why I brought it up. Even if we all disagree, discussion is important and nothing wrong with hearing all different view points. None of us may never change our views but it's nice to hear them different points of view.

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Flucifialpeople doing stuff IC (predatory behavior) than has ooc consequences. Stuff like that is beyond any control of who runs the server. Some won't be able to distinguish what happens in IC is IC or others may think IC is not all totally IC... it's just a slippery slope and a topic that needs to be discussed. I want everyone to be safe. That's all

[Flucifial]

1 minute ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

me being creeped out I would say is per mostly IC because the group brings nothing RP to a server designed to RP.

From your perspective, that may be the case but you never know what roleplay can come from that. Just because you don't receive any roleplay from it doesn't mean roleplay isn't occurring. 

2 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

I mean the only reason to have a group like that would be to harass people and than it carries over to ooc, which is an issue. If you allow this, than we can allow hate groups as well?

Why would IC harassment carry into OOC? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point here. The server tries not to restrict roleplay, and for good reason, and I'd personally like it to stay that way. It's up to the PLAYER to create good roleplay. 

7 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

I just mentioned it for others who may not be able to distinguish and I would never want any person (of any age) to be feel disrespected in any way, which I why I brought it up.

If a player is unable to distinguish the difference between IC and OOC, than they just shouldn't be playing on this roleplay server and will eventually get weeded out. 

5 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

people doing stuff IC (predatory behavior) than has ooc consequences. Stuff like that is beyond any control of who runs the server.

There are no OOC consequences for IC behavior and there shouldn't be. 

6 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

Some won't be able to distinguish what happens in IC is IC or others may think IC is not all totally IC..

Once again, people that fall into this category shouldn't be playing this game and being unable to distinguish the difference between IC and OOC is their problem. We literally have a server rule dedicated to preventing the mix of IC and OOC. 

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Flucifial                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. What anything positive can come from the group? If the endgame is they harass people IC and call people "nonces" and do that whole thing to people who are not or have nothing to do with it, just to have fun, than that could prevent someone from enjoying the server and that is harassment. That group has the potential to be very bad and imo, should not be allowed.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. IC can carry into OOC. If someone is doing something in IC that prohibiting u from playing, than it does become a OOC problem. I believe that is a rule to not impede someone else from RP'ing or enjoying the game.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3.Yes, you're right. in theory. but I seen lots of examples of people  don't know RP from OP, and they still on server, so. Let's be honest. This is not a deep RP server in any sense of the word. I love the server but it's true. It's a casual RP.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4. I am talking about legal issues that go beyond any consequence admin or server owners can give. Per say, an old person doing predatory stuff with underage person IC or not. That can't be a thing whether it's Rp or not even if both parties agree. I would think the Rp rules here would go by your own local laws in concern with that., and even RP is still a little gray area in the law, You can't be protected by say It was RP. Doesn't work that way. Laws still exist in RP servers. Now, I never witnessed anyone doing stuff like that here. Everyone has been really kind, so not sure if that's an issue here but it has been an issue in RP servers before.                                                                                                                                      Lastly, I think it be naive to say people will just do the right thing. That will never happens. If that would happen, there be no need for the rules. I think it just needs to to addressed and maybe a alteration of the rule changes or at least be able to bring it up to the table.

[Flucifial]

15 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

1. What anything positive can come from the group? If the endgame is they harass people IC and call people "nonces" and do that whole thing to people who are not or have nothing to do with it, just to have fun, than that could prevent someone from enjoying the server and that is harassment. That group has the potential to be very bad and imo, should not be allowed.

A lifeinvader group that harasses people ICly is an IC problem and that's that. The solution should be carried out ICly, not OOCly. There is no need for OOC to be brought into it. IC harassment is allowed. OOC harassment is not. 

15 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

2. IC can carry into OOC. If someone is doing something in IC that prohibiting u from playing, than it does become a OOC problem. I believe that is a rule to not impede someone else from RP'ing or enjoying the game.

It sure is a rule, which is why I don't understand the need for this point?

 

I'm really just failing to understand what change you're asking for, or the real basis of the issue you're trying to discuss? We already have rules in place that protect our players and they seem to be working just fine at the moment. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Flucifial

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@Flucifialharassing a player IC in game so they can not RP becomes an OC harassment issue. If i was getting bullied in game to a point (by same person or group) i could not enjoy the server, it would be reported. That within the bounds of rules. The fact is there is no RP (or anything good that can come about) about having that creepy group allowed.. I don't think anyone can say...oh yeah. this is good for the server. Things may be working for you but it seems to me you are saying anything goes as long as it's in IC  and that's not the way it is (RP or legally).  Anyways, I have conversed with you enough. Maybe you don't get it. Good Luck and I wish you the best.

Edited July 2, 2020 by _tiidus_SOTG

[Flucifial]

10 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

harassing a player IC in game so they can not RP becomes an OC harassment issue.

Yea, server rules already protect you from this .

11 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

Things may be working for you but it seems to me you are saying anything goes as long as it's in IC  and that's not the way it is (RP or legally).

In ECLIPSE Roleplay, IC problems are solved ICly and OOC problems are solved OOCly. That is the way it works. 

I understand where you're coming from, but the current rules already protect you from the issue at hand and I believe they will continue to promote the clear difference between IC and OOC rather than going in an opposite direction. The direction you're hoping for will only further cause players to have more trouble differentiating IC and OOC. 

14 minutes ago, _tiidus_SOTG said:

Anyways, I have conversed with you enough. Maybe you don't get it. Good Luck and I wish you the best.

I definitely get what you're saying, but I think you're just having trouble understanding what RP really is. Good luck to you as well!

[_tiidus_SOTG]

I understand RP clearly and as that is not how it works legally at all. Have a good day and have fun in Los Santos. 

[SaltyPython]

While this topic is a little bit all over the place - I understand and to an extent agree with one of OP's points, but not completely.

There are times where someone is harrassed ICly over and over, which causes OOC resentment and for them to leave the server as a result. While there is technically a rule covering this kind of stuff, sometimes it's hard to enforce it, due to subjectivity. That rule mostly targets harrassment of the like of someone specifically continuously robbing you or what have you. Someone outing your IC character as a "Nonce" (a pedophile for our friends outside of the anglo-speaking world) can cause a lot of people to start calling you one, and a lot of the server to harrass your IC character as a result.

This is because it's a heavily charged subject soliciting a strong reaction in most people - and one that can make a person very uncomfortable, making it hard on them OOCly. And the hard thing about this is if it catches on enough, it's hard to stop multiple people from "joking around" (when in reality it's affecting someone).

With all of that being said - that's a hypothetical, and I think that until something of that magnitude occurs, there's not much point in introducing yet another RP limiting rule. To give an example, the new robbery rule was introduced because non-rp robberies were getting ridiculously out of hand. This current situation, I believe at the moment at least, is a non-problem, and hopefully stays one.

[CaesarSeizure]

Personally i feel like no one should be RPing as anyone under 18, and especially not as kids, simply because of 2 things:

1. Script limits body choices and if you do decide to RP as someone younger, you would need to be constantly doing /do to show that you are in fact, someone who is not an adult. Not doing so, would just be used to be a kid in 1 situation and an adult in another, as driving was suggested.

2. People of all ages play this, meaning that you can't judge a character by their voice. Same as dudes who play female characters expect to be treated as girls, so do people with younger voices expect to be treated as adults.

I think if the script supported different body types and would allow you to actually be a kid, then maybe it would be ok, but honestly id rather we didnt have people RPing pedo fantasies

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@SaltyPython I agree you don’t need to just make a rule for gut reaction. I don’t personally believe there  is any need for the group but to just add a new rule just to add one is a dangerous road indeed. think the discussion will hopefully be enough to detour that type of behavior. I personally want to see the group banned but I also understand other views on why others may believe differently and think somehow they could bring rp value even though I don’t agree, personally, with that assessment 

[_tiidus_SOTG]

@CaesarSeizure you really brought points  I never thought of. It a tough thing because I want all types of people to be able to play and enjoy rp  but I’m not sure what a underage rp ic charater brings to gta (an adult world) I think if you could have families and they went to school and that was part of it, I say maybe ok. That’s logical but a person underage IC carrying gun/driving is not rp (to me) and if you can’t do those things, it be hard to maintain a fun rp. Thing is there are many things in the real world age restricted and I don’t think its mean to say no underage IC characters and per say, no ooc members under 16. It’s not being uninclusive but keeping everyone safe.. the underage and over age people here.