Legal Services and it's role in overall server operations.

[Marksy]

Hello there, 

Anyone who knows me will know that I don't write many things on the forums unless it's something either I feel strongly about, or it's something I know the general community have a similar mind set on, todays suggestion may not be seen as a major issue in regards to the crippling amount of issues the server does face unaddressed, however it's one that requires 0 development work and the people who CAN make these changes are at least semi active in their role. 

I'm referring to the massively outdated regulations that come with some of the staple businesses within the server, ones that have dire consequences for general server operations and can affect the experience of most players on a daily basis. I am of course referring to businesses such as Benny's, Bayview and DCC hell even Weazel. 

Now it's been a long time thing that to work for these specific scripted businesses that a player will ICly need a 2 week clean record from criminal activity. Be that when you apply to join one of these businesses or actively working for one. However we can be honest in saying the server is not at all as populated as it once was, most of the playerbase we have now are loyal players of many years as the core community. The server doesn't have many "legal" characters left, I'd go as far to say most people now are either cops, criminals or have both. 

With this being said I don't believe we have the luxury to be so picky and choosy on who we let be mechanics, taxi drivers and advertisers... If I'm being honest, mechanics and taxi drivers are actually vital to the server, with no mechanics there aren't hot spots to hang out like Benny's and Bayview but there's also lines of angry community members who can't get their vehicles fixed and it heavily affects their roleplay. Taxi's are needed a lot to recover lost vehicles, get a ride from prison, if you get stranded, hell even on my PD character if we get killed we'll get a taxi back to Mission Row. 

Not having people working these jobs is detrimental to the overall health of the server in general, for several reasons, obviously the first reason was listed above we NEED mechanics and taxi drivers, second being lets be honest most of the criminal playerbase will work these jobs during down time, less active hours for their gang myself included in this, it gives me a reason to still be on the server without having to be on PD or doing hood rat shit. 

It's just been brought to my attention that majority of these companies have had their employees bonuses rejected now I can't stress enough that this isn't the reason for this post but it's a contributing factor, money isn't hard to come by so this isn't by any stretch a "waaaah why didn't I get my bonus", but why are we so hell bent on being strict with virtual money to a point where people put in the same long hours to help these factions run and are met with an inability to be awarded for it because they have a felony? 

The biggest problem I see with this is for people who are active criminals on the server, if there's no place like Benny's or Bayview or DCC where we can relax and take some down time where we still get to actively engage in something that isn't criminal roleplay or let's be honest PVP, then we're in danger of breeding the mentality further that basically all you can do as a criminal is criminal activities which 99.9% of the time result in some form of PVP, a mentality we shouldn't be encouraging as the only roleplay available to you as a criminal, for transparency and as an example, the night crew at Benny's are pretty much ALL criminal players part of active gangs, if none of us are there, then nobody in the city gets their cars repaired, we've seen this film before when nobody worked at LSC and everyone was pissed off. 

The server has been in a little bit of a freefall and lord knows my last post about several issues was met with a lot of the community feeling similar, I honestly believe some of those issues overall have been addressed and things are looking a little brighter, but the server is still losing numbers slowly, it happens this community has been up and down for years, hopefully we get a more active peak again in the near future, but for now, it's the small things like this that we need to look at and say are we being too over the top in certain aspects on how we run things? 

[SneakySniper]

+1. I think bonuses should be given regardless. Feels like a punishment to be working somewhere for a while then suddenly having the bonus you worked hard for taken away simply because you prefer the illegal side of rp and got caught doing it. Jobs like mechanic, dcc, weazel etc need more people working.

[Pumpkin]

This has been a topic of conversation with a fair few friends of mine, from civ players to gang members everyone has an opinion on the matter since Bennys was introduced into the city

Personally, i think that the civ community is MASSIVELY under developed to the point where there was a uproar within the civ community about allowing crims to work at these places. Its making what little civ players have for themselves even smaller and i understand that can be frustrating and even upsetting.

My idea of balancing it however would be to have a ying and yang of taxi companys and mechanics ect.
By ying and yang i mean one that is more high classed civ focused,very legal and one that is lowerclass/hood and is more relaxed with felonies and has lesser bonuses due to this.
Naturally people who want to play legal characters are more likely to choose the highclass one as those will be the type of people that usually interact with and means they intermingle with people that fit their kind of RP. On the otherhand those that play crim will gravitate towards the more lowerclass/hood one as again intermingling with the people who share the same interest in RP. It would create hotspots for 2 very different groups of people and it would also make things easier for new players to be able to guide them towards a mech shop that will have people that fit the RP they are looking to get into

Example of this that was already naturally happening was Bennys vs LSC, Bennys being a crim hotspot whilst LSC was more of a legal hotspot

Crims players are grinders at heart, you have to be for the constant loss of guns aswell as everyday things like gps radio ect ect, no matter what opinions people may have of DCC, at the end of the day letting crims into the faction revived it in a matter of hours from it being dead for months, but in that same breath, i can understand from a civ point of view how it can be seen as unfair to an already dying part of the community

Edited April 13 by Pumpkin

[Snake I Tere I]

+1 with this take, and I think it highlights a problem that’s been quietly affecting day-to-day RP recently more than we realize .
For me, having active employees in these businesses is way more valuable than keeping outdated .
The" 2 week clean requirement" now feels more restrictive than beneficial and hinestky could easily be reduced to something like a week a few days+ even just based on recent behavior instead of a hard timer. Same thing with bonuses ;if someone is consistently showing up, being on duty ,doing their job, and helping keep any  business active, it feels a bit backwards to reject their " bonuses" purely because of a charge that might not even reflect how they’ve been working recently.
Overall this isn’t about making things easier for the sake of it, but  togive people more ways to engage and do stuff  with the server outside of just Crime or PD/SD/DOC...

[Woodro]

+1. I’m in a gang of street racers who have 2 different privately owned mechanic shops. Lore wise they have plenty of background to be hired at Bennys. But staying clean for 2 weeks and then having to try and keep your record clear is easier said than done. 

[aleks]

Hey there,

I appreciate the feedback in this thread, and I do want to acknowledge the main point being raised here. Businesses like Benny’s, Bayview, DCC, and similar factions matter a lot to day-to-day RP. When they are not staffed, people feel it, and that has a real impact on the server as a whole.

I wanted to reply from an LFM perspective to give some context on why some of these systems exist, while also making it clear that this is not meant to shut the conversation down. The goal here is to explain the reasoning behind the current approach, while also listening to where that approach may no longer be working as well as it should.

1. Bonuses

The activity requirement for bonuses was originally introduced because we had reached a point where some players who had been inactive for long stretches were still receiving the same bonuses as people who were actively showing up and contributing. We had a number of complaints from players who felt that was unfair, especially when they were putting time into their faction consistently.

That said, I do not think the current 3 out of 4 weeks system is perfect, and we have been open about that. When bonus reviews happen, we already try to look at context outside of that window where appropriate, including LOAs and other extenuating circumstances. The intent has never been to deny people who are genuinely contributing.

At the same time, removing activity requirements entirely would likely take us back to the same issue that caused frustration in the first place, where inactive members and active members were treated the same during bonus reviews.

Because of the discussion here, LFM is already talking internally about whether there is a better middle ground. One option being discussed is moving away from the 3 out of 4 weeks model and instead looking at whether someone has completed around 75% of the required hours across the review period. In practice, that would mean someone who puts in the time overall, even if it is not spread neatly week by week, could still remain eligible for a bonus.

2. Illegality requirements

This is the harder part of the discussion, because there are a few competing concerns here.

There are players who strongly feel that legal and illegal roleplay should stay more separate. Just last week we had a discussion with criminal faction leaders and many of them were in support of criminal players not being able to roleplay in a legal faction whatsoever to help boost criminal activity. While I am not personally in support of that, I do understand the arguments. 

There are also players who feel the current restrictions are too rigid, especially when they make it harder to keep important businesses staffed and active. Both of those viewpoints exist, and both come from genuine concerns about the health of the server.

I also think it is fair to say the server is in a different place now than it was when some of these standards were first put in place. That does not automatically mean every restriction should be removed, but it does mean it is reasonable to revisit whether the current balance still makes sense.

Ideas like having more distinct spaces for different styles of RP, such as a more strictly legal business and a more relaxed one, are not things we are dismissing. Similar ideas have been discussed before. The challenge is finding a version of that which works in practice with the server as it currently is, rather than only sounding good on paper.

None of this is to say change is off the table. It is just to say that the hesitation around changing these rules is not coming from a desire to make things harder for people. It comes from trying not to solve one problem in a way that creates another.

With all of that said, I do agree with the broader point that civilian RP needs support, and that these businesses are an important part of keeping the server feeling active and connected. So if there are middle ground suggestions that help with staffing and activity without completely undermining the legal or civilian side of RP, I am very open to hearing them - you're welcome to message me on discord, if you'd prefer to remain private.

[Demonmit1]

Random bonuses for just existing in the server as a whole is a dumb idea imho.

want more activity at mechanics? pay mechanics commission for each car they repair.
want more activity at Taxi's? drivers get a % of the fare charged.
want more LSEMS? pay them per person they /cpr or /stabilize

People get paid to stand around and do nothing, just being present is good enough to get the same amount as the guy doing all the work.

Legal faction pay structure needs to be completely swapped over to paying for active participation. right now its a system of dicing, and if you lose, you have to do the work. people at legal faction jobs should be there wanting to do the work, so actually pay them for the work, dont just pay them for existing and afk salary farming. people fight for who gets to not do the work. that's a clear sign the system is broken, people should fight for who gets to do the work and get paid.

Edited April 13 by Demonmit1

[Eliza]

56 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

want more LSEMS? pay them per person they /cpr or /stabilize

They do get paid per patient they drop off at a hospital on top of their hourly, but I do agree with the whole statement that factions should get paid a portion of the work they do also, on top of hourly pay

[Demonmit1]

51 minutes ago, Eliza said:

They do get paid per patient they drop off at a hospital on top of their hourly, but I do agree with the whole statement that factions should get paid a portion of the work they do also, on top of hourly pay

Yeah it's something very insignificant like $500. Bump up the active pay and you'll get a lot more people willing to be on duty and available for calls. The hourly is just for being around. Actually interacting with the job and actively providing a service should be incentivised a lot more than $500 to drop someone off. $8k an hour is the highest possible you can hope to make in legal jobs before tax, which can take up to 35% if you're not VIP. Crim peaks out at 150k~ cooking drugs. 

Service focused civ jobs should pay out more if they want people to actually show up and do the job in the server.

9/10 law enforcement couldn't care less about the money they make. The reward is the gameplay. Most people are doing mechanic, taxi, weazel for the money. They offer a tangible service to make the game function, and actively doing those jobs should pay out more than just afk salary farming the job.

Id bet we would see a lot more active ems if they got paid $5k for every person they stabilize. 

People would fight over who got to do the upgrades on a car if you earned the labor cost as your income.

Taxis would compete to pick up passengers first to get the fare rate to drive someone where they need to go.

Weazel advertising would go nuts if you got a commission for every ad you sold to another player.

 

Edited April 13 by Demonmit1

[SquirtleSquad]

On 4/13/2026 at 2:27 PM, Demonmit1 said:

Yeah it's something very insignificant like $500. Bump up the active pay and you'll get a lot more people willing to be on duty and available for calls. The hourly is just for being around. Actually interacting with the job and actively providing a service should be incentivised a lot more than $500 to drop someone off. $8k an hour is the highest possible you can hope to make in legal jobs before tax, which can take up to 35% if you're not VIP. Crim peaks out at 150k~ cooking drugs. 

The issue with a lot of MD not clocking on is that we can go hours on end without a single call. Why are we going hours on end without a single call? Because people are trunking. So pushing the pay from $500 to $750 or even $1,000 isn't going to fix it. Also, the player who is being dropped off is also being charged a drop-off fee. Maybe removing this charge from the player is a move because it makes no sense that we can /heal a player with RP, but also if they get scriptly injured they are subject to RP + "medical" fees. It's kinda a weird mechanic going on here.

 

That said, I am an advocate that there needs to be more to do as a Civ on this server. There used to be events going on left and right, and now the only consistent one is Out of Towners which just generally has the same bill of /anim dance (afk). There's been some good RP brought in, and ways to engage the audience more and more, but outside of DJ's there's really not much offered to legal civs. Some people have started businesses and just gave up because it didn't give anyone an instant gratification, no instant reward. I don't want to deviate off-topic here than I should, but basically the meta of the server has shifted a lot to a Pavlov's Dog conditioning.