Change to PD raiding permissions

[Steven Hayes]

Right now, PD can (apparently?) raid houses if weapons are found with your fingerprints on it, from a situation where you full died (NLR). I think this should be disallowed as it makes no sense to get raided when you died in situation.  "your prints were found on a gun you died with" essentially. 

I could be wrong but if true, evidence should not be able to be used if it was from a situation you got NLRed from. Or to keep it simple on PD, if they found it on or near your body it shouldnt be useable as evidence to raid you.

Edited March 28, 2025 by Steven Hayes

[AnnoyingOne]

You do understand that this was a mistake right? And if I understand properly, it wasn't the firearm that got someone raided, but the subsequent investigation into the person after prints were found.

There is no way for detectives to know 100% if someone died on a scene where they got the prints as the weapon could be found on someone else, or in a vehicle, etc.

I myself, usually check with admins to tell me if said person died recently so that we don't charge them with anything, but getting said responses takes time sometimes.

[Quietthecutie]

LEOs currently have no way to detect weather or not a person at a scene has been NLRed on their own. this isnt helped by the fact most people wear similar clothing and have similar haircuts. a dead body could be literally anybody, we do not have the ability to fingerprint them (Ironically due to NLR rules i imagine) and scenes can have dosens of em.

When finding prints It is VERY good practice for the investigator/Detective on scene to reach out either to the person individually as to if they have been NLRed, or to an admin to confirm before opening an investigation. I always try to reach out OOCly to people to confirm this. However this is often complicated as prints are usually not taken on scene, but later. and also that a lot of people log off soon after taking an L making it impossible to message them.

If you also suspect that evidence may be recovered on a scene that bears your fingerprints, it is once again a very good idea for you to at a minimum, save a unix, at best, save a POV and later discuss this with staff who can then reach out to LEOs and avoid any confusion.

This is one of those situations that is again, a 2 way street. LEOs do not want to pursue an investigation that could later be invalidated, Crims dont want to get raided when they got NLRed. 

I dont know about you but every time I die I immeadiately hit my clip button. this means i can go back over the footage once things have calmed down. I know not everyone records but if you dont, even just hitting F8 and saving a screenshot can go a long way.

I also want to make it clear right now that LEOs have to jump through a TON of hoops to get a warrant to execute a raid. this is for good reason. raids are a big deal. and there is a constant flow between SIB/Detective and JB regarding the particulars for each raid. many get thrown out. To say prints got found on a gun, thus raid was granted is simply untrue. A lot of roleplay and paperwork is put into making these things, which are always large scale RP Ops, a reality.

With all that good practice out of the way, reading between the lines the situation you are referencing is one where no one informed the LEO that the person was NLRed, and then no one could produce evidence to prove the NLR happened. so its Schrodinger's NLR. one party claimed it happened but no one could produce proof it happened or that it was tied to those prints. Its unfortunate, but this is why saving POV after a death is always a good idea. You have the tools at your disposal to make sure this dosent happen again.

 

Edited March 28, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[Steven Hayes]

3 hours ago, isBrainDed said:

You do understand that this was a mistake right? And if I understand properly, it wasn't the firearm that got someone raided, but the subsequent investigation into the person after prints were found.

There is no way for detectives to know 100% if someone died on a scene where they got the prints as the weapon could be found on someone else, or in a vehicle, etc.

I myself, usually check with admins to tell me if said person died recently so that we don't charge them with anything, but getting said responses takes time sometimes.

 

2 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

LEOs currently have no way to detect weather or not a person at a scene has been NLRed on their own. this isnt helped by the fact most people wear similar clothing and have similar haircuts. a dead body could be literally anybody, we do not have the ability to fingerprint them (Ironically due to NLR rules i imagine) and scenes can have dosens of em.

When finding prints It is VERY good practice for the investigator/Detective on scene to reach out either to the person individually as to if they have been NLRed, or to an admin to confirm before opening an investigation. I always try to reach out OOCly to people to confirm this. However this is often complicated as prints are usually not taken on scene, but later. and also that a lot of people log off soon after taking an L making it impossible to message them.

If you also suspect that evidence may be recovered on a scene that bears your fingerprints, it is once again a very good idea for you to at a minimum, save a unix, at best, save a POV and later discuss this with staff who can then reach out to LEOs and avoid any confusion.

This is one of those situations that is again, a 2 way street. LEOs do not want to pursue an investigation that could later be invalidated, Crims dont want to get raided when they got NLRed. 

I dont know about you but every time I die I immeadiately hit my clip button. this means i can go back over the footage once things have calmed down. I know not everyone records but if you dont, even just hitting F8 and saving a screenshot can go a long way.

I also want to make it clear right now that LEOs have to jump through a TON of hoops to get a warrant to execute a raid. this is for good reason. raids are a big deal. and there is a constant flow between SIB/Detective and JB regarding the particulars for each raid. many get thrown out. To say prints got found on a gun, thus raid was granted is simply untrue. A lot of roleplay and paperwork is put into making these things, which are always large scale RP Ops, a reality.

With all that good practice out of the way, reading between the lines the situation you are referencing is one where no one informed the LEO that the person was NLRed, and then no one could produce evidence to prove the NLR happened. so its Schrodinger's NLR. one party claimed it happened but no one could produce proof it happened or that it was tied to those prints. Its unfortunate, but this is why saving POV after a death is always a good idea. You have the tools at your disposal to make sure this dosent happen again.

 

I heard that even if you die they can raid if they find fingerprints i think from former police players. Idk this could all just be wrong. I dont know what specific report you guys are talking about.

[Quietthecutie]

3 hours ago, Steven Hayes said:

 

I heard that even if you die they can raid if they find fingerprints i think from former police players. Idk this could all just be wrong. I dont know what specific report you guys are talking about.

This is dependant on when and how you died. again this is why its really important to monitor your own deaths to make staff and LEOs lives easier when looking at this kinda stuff. to be clear. if LEOs are made known you are NLRed, they cannot. NLR rules apply. but they have 0 way of checking that themselves. as i said, its a 2 way street. LEOs dont want to pursue NLR cases because they can be voided at any moment, and its a ton of invalid paperwork then.

Edited March 28, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[HobGoblin]

8 hours ago, Steven Hayes said:

 

I heard that even if you die they can raid if they find fingerprints i think from former police players. Idk this could all just be wrong. I dont know what specific report you guys are talking about.

Idk whos been talking to you but they don't know what they are on about.

[jdotmo]

Feel like the script could just be adjusted to remove finger prints from everything when someone fully dies? Of course who the hell knows how hard that is to implement lol. I don’t think it’s a LEO process problem it’s a script limitation.

 

[HobGoblin]

@Steven Hayes do you have a name who was raided or address

[Quietthecutie]

1 hour ago, jdotmo said:

Feel like the script could just be adjusted to remove finger prints from everything when someone fully dies? Of course who the hell knows how hard that is to implement lol. I don’t think it’s a LEO process problem it’s a script limitation.

 

This is a question that can only be answered by the Devs...what i will say is from an SD side NLR Rules are obeyed to the best of our ability. and I have never seen us knowingly pursue a case where NLR is involved.

On a side note. its just worth noting than NLR applies to the events that happened in the leadup to you dying. its not a clean slate for everything that happened before the date your character died. and that line is for staff to draw. not LEOs.

[Steven Hayes]

2 hours ago, HobGoblin said:

@Steven Hayes do you have a name who was raided or address

no i dont know any specific incident. i saw the guy that had this happen to him, but that was after i posted the suggestion. I guess if this is wrong staff can delete or lock it, my bad.

[David Coast]

I think the current system is fair and realistic. PD cannot raid your houses if they find your fingerprints anywhere, at least on the IC side of things and I'm sure there is an investigation or RP behind the raid that will be ruined if they displayed the reasons OOCly. PD also cannot just raid someone, they need to get a warrant from a judge who understands what's needed for a search or seizure warrant and if you want to know what they need just go speak to an attorney so then you can be a better crim.

It's pretty difficult to get raided for a situation you are NLR'd from as it goes through alot of people and people aren't retarded and can see if your characters died and if you do, communicate to people about it, as obviously this isn't intended. NLR is pretty vague but if you don't die because or during an event, you're probably not NLR'd from that event.