Fix the economy

[Waryerz]

I think it's time that the economy and inflation on Eclipse is looked at. I feel like it would be better for most people, especially newer players, if everything wasn't so overly expensive. This would decrease the income from player-owned businesses, but it makes the server much more enjoyable and less of a grind to simply exist. Sandwiches costing hundreds of dollars, a bottle of water costing $200, gas being $15 per liter, the list can go on. I suggest everything has a realistic cost. The prices should stay realistic and shouldn't be skyrocketed just because the economy is large. Sandwiches could cost $20 (still extremely expensive but it's an improvement), gas could be 2 dollars per liter (gas is around 3 dollars per gallon in America, 15 per liter is insane), etc. Some people literally need to grind money just to afford living. There are some things, like medical treatment or mechanic work, that make sense to be expensive, but the rest of it is just too overprice. People will be able to exist without losing most of their money to simple crap.

[Waryerz]

Clothing too. If we get a clothing update, it would be great to see clothes cost a normal amount of money. Right now, the price of clothes seems like they were set by a random number generator. Cheap, baggy looking clothes are cheap, suits and expensive clothes cost maybe a couple hundred. Thousands of dollars for a paper hat is crazy

[Ash]

None of the things you mentioned are really grinds though even as a new player? You can make upwards of 10k in an hour with some freelance jobs, and 5-6k an hour starting out in a gov job, both of which cover pretty much any food, drink, gas needs you need for a while. You use the example of gas being 3 per gallon compared to 15 per litre, well you can make the equivalent of a years salary in a few hours so I don't think it really compares from the angle of a "grind", you can refuel your car like 20+ times or buy 10x burger shot orders for an hours work. (And that's just legally)

However, I agree the scales of pricing across the board is whacky from a realism perspective but so is the pay you get from everything also. Would be cool to see some sort of change that scales things better (Hell even just a /10 across the board for costs, imports, and cash everyone has would make it a bit less odd)

But I also think it's not much of a huge issue to warrant a change personally. 

[Herbo]

I'm very 50/50 about this post,

I agree with what Peter said, stuff is stupidly expensive to the point where I'll drive to multiple stores trying to find a sandwich that is cheaper than $700. I think the cost of CIVILLIAN items should be lowered. So clothes, gloves, sandwiches, gas, etc. Then illegal items should stay the same.

Now this is just my opinion but I think there's a real issue concerning gun and illegal goods pricing. Personally and I think a lot of people like me on the server, those who have been playing for 1+ year, can afford guns. I never have an issue of not having money in general or money to afford a gun. The issue comes with "New Players". Guns are considered stupidly expensive for these players and it makes them not want to play and grind to have fun, because it takes them so long to get one. 

This raises the question of what to do about them, do you raise the price to make it so all of us "Experienced" players don't have ridiculous gun stashes, do you lower it and allow the Experienced players to have insane gun stashes and allow new players to obtain guns to advance their roleplay, or do you just leave it alone even though there's so many complaints. 

I feel like there's so many different issues regarding the economy and price of things, that it makes it impossible to properly adjust it without the risk of even bigger issues being caused.

[TheCactus]

Where is the solution tho? Everyone can ask for "fix pls". Salaries and the money earned by players are doubled compared to 5 years ago while the max salary cap remained the same.

Simply making everything cheaper won't combat inflation just like printing money doesn't. 

[Aron Simon]

Do Crims / illegal RP enjoyers even have a way to make a stable income anymore? 

[JohnG]

3 hours ago, TheCactus said:

Where is the solution tho? Everyone can ask for "fix pls". Salaries and the money earned by players are doubled compared to 5 years ago while the max salary cap remained the same.

Simply making everything cheaper won't combat inflation just like printing money doesn't. 

1. Increase the payout for government faction employees.

2. Make the price of Burgershot food 50% lower than the current price.

3. Decrease import prices for general items that are available in stores.

4. Decrease the price of clothes.

5. Decrease the import prices of cars and guns.

6. Buff the payout for freelancing jobs such as fishing and tolls.

7. Decrease the criminal charge fee and the weekly/monthly fee for business property.

8. I doubt there are more than 3-4 gas station owners who are making any money. If they are not making money, let them not pay the fee for that month in such a case.
   The Lost MC Gas station in Sandy makes a negative profit.

9. Add a few exciting contents to the server (They don't have to be scripted content).

List goes on....

[TheCactus]

2 hours ago, JohnG said:

1. Increase the payout for government faction employees.

2. Make the price of Burgershot food 50% lower than the current price.

3. Decrease import prices for general items that are available in stores.

4. Decrease the price of clothes.

5. Decrease the import prices of cars and guns.

6. Buff the payout for freelancing jobs such as fishing and tolls.

7. Decrease the criminal charge fee and the weekly/monthly fee for business property.

8. I doubt there are more than 3-4 gas station owners who are making any money. If they are not making money, let them not pay the fee for that month in such a case.
   The Lost MC Gas station in Sandy makes a negative profit.

9. Add a few exciting contents to the server (They don't have to be scripted content).

List goes on....

Your reply is anti-knowledge and completely non-logical. I can't imagine it working even in an utopistic world that doesn't exist. Just to be clear: that's not how economics work. Not in the real world and not in a videogame.
You're asking to spawn money into the economy while decreasing the prices of everything but the prices will raise naturally overtime to meet our purchase power.

1. If we earn more money, more people can afford certain things, decreasing the currency's purchase power
2. If you decrease burgershot prices, the employees will make shit money and no one will work there. If you pay them with magically spawned money you increase inflation at a slow rate but faster than you are right now.
3. Decreasing the prices will make business owners adapt the prices to the current economy so they will eventually be the same or higher to match the currency's purchase power.
4. I got nothing against that. The clothing stores are 100% controlled by the government so decreasing the prices of some items (t-shirts for example) while increasing the prices of jewelry would be beneficial.
5. These aren't items that are vital for the economy so this will obviously make their prices decrease and meet the purchase power.
6. You are again asking to spawn/print money into the economy. The money from those who pay tolls go to the player. If you are asking for extra money spawned out of the blue for the toll worker you are just printing money mindlessly like Germany in the 40s.
7. Less expenses = more money. If everyone has more money, prices increase. Basics of inflation. Higher taxes for all citizens fight inflation, not the opposite.
8. You are right about some gas stations not making any money but that's not how you should fight the problem. The businesses should have to pay different licensing fees based on the areas where they are located instead of fixed fees for everyone.
9. Never saying no to "exciting" stuff

I hope your list does not go on..
I'd much rather keep everything how it is right now instead of runing it even further.

In case I wasn't clear enough, if we all earn more money and have less expenses, our spare capital at the end of the day/week/month is higher. If everyone has more money to spend on items that aren't necessities, those items that aren't necessities (such as properties) will cost a lot more because more people can afford them; basic supply and demand.
You're basically gonna have a completely broken economy compared to what we have now with the price of items or cars reduced to nothing while others will be x10 the current price and a lower purchase power.

I can go on all day and explain why's and becauses. I have a firm knowledge of economics and there's a reason why countries and central banks have issues with inflation. I doubt random eclipsians have more experience than them.
I suggest you read something before you come here and speak your mind when all you do is live the economy while you have no clue how things work.
In a real world a car's price is determined by:

costs (salaries of workers, raw materials, patents, expenses, etc),
supply (the amount of items/time factories require to turn raw materials into the item that is ready to be used by the consumer)
demand (the amount of items/time that is requested by the public)
If you somehow manage to somehow crash the costs barrier, the price of your item will be mostly determined by the supply and demand. If supply is not a problem and you have demand, the item will make you a lot of money as an enterprise but prices on the 2nd hand market are going to be low (just like for most cheap cars such as ford/vw which are produced in large quantity). If you buy a new car with 0 km from the dealership, it will be worth half of the price you paid in 1 year. All this does not apply to the luxury market since initially the supply meets or exceeds the demands but when the production of a vehicle stops, the demand stays quite high for years or even multiplies the value of certain rare vehicles.

Eclipse isn't the real world with a real economy. The costs are nothing but a set value that we call import price. If the import price is lowered to accomodate us, the prices of all the other items will increase. We will always need food and water so their prices will be increased by business owners to make more money and meet supply & demand. What you will have as a result (after months) will be an economy where we earn a lot of currency but our pruchasing power will be lower than before. Most goods will cost more because everyone makes more money and expenses are lower (for us but mostly for business owners) while assets that have been untouched will see their prices skyrocket because everyone would be able to afford them if there was enough supply, but there isn't.

Edited July 12, 2023 by TheCactus

[HobGoblin]

Wipe the assets and start again

[Phantas]

5 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

Wipe the assets and start again

This might as well clear the ban list too fresh starts all around

[TheCactus]

1 minute ago, Phantas said:

This might as well clear the ban list too fresh starts all around

Nice try

[Phantas]

1 minute ago, TheCactus said:

Nice try

my b had to shoot my shot

[Harveyyy]

Blame Lewis. Jokes aside, I think nothing here is realistic in terms of pricing, but also salaries are not realistic too. In what world you'd get 6-8k per hour? I mean unless you're a Top G, and you drive Lamborghinis and Bugattis, that ain't going to happen.

Also, import prices are extreme. People only grind, cook thousands of drugs everyday just to be able to afford heavy weapons and armor. Making things less demanding would help out for sure.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Harveyyy

[Ritchie Stones]

i dont think wiping the assets is fair to those who put in a lot of effort to grind it out, this is a debate between poor and rich.
just because you did not put in the work to earn your stuff, doesnt mean other arent deserving of it, 

i spend countless hours grinding where my friends where having fun in shootouts for years stil having nothing in their bank,
you can still make money in eclipse, but it requires brains in multiple area's of the market.
like there is oppertunity in everything but it takes risk and knowledge and timing.

and no i havent been cooking drugs only, like most of our wealthy crims in the city who somehow like to convince themself they smart and have a busines mind.

[Ritchie Stones]

and if you reset all assets, then what stops people from giving up, it damages the server in every way.
even a guy with one car and house wil just give up and move on to another server because he feels this unfair.

let alone those who own 20 mil bussineses, and people who create events at their own expense from that.
they wil just move on, and a bunch of people wil be left in the city with 0 knowledge on how to thrive an economy at all. left in maximum 14 days of glory. before those die out aswell.

i have seen this happen in front of my eyes in 2014 where a vanila WOW server had 6000 players on daily base for 5 years, it got wiped in a bit over 7 days with 140 people left because of one update that wasnt complete and a small update that reduced peoples wealth by half.

another 7 days later 20 people where left to play the server and a month later i logged in one last time to chek the popularity and it was absolute 1 person... me.

it was very sad

[TheCactus]

5 hours ago, Ritchie Stones said:

and if you reset all assets, then what stops people from giving up, it damages the server in every way.
even a guy with one car and house wil just give up and move on to another server because he feels this unfair.

let alone those who own 20 mil bussineses, and people who create events at their own expense from that.
they wil just move on, and a bunch of people wil be left in the city with 0 knowledge on how to thrive an economy at all. left in maximum 14 days of glory. before those die out aswell.

i have seen this happen in front of my eyes in 2014 where a vanila WOW server had 6000 players on daily base for 5 years, it got wiped in a bit over 7 days with 140 people left because of one update that wasnt complete and a small update that reduced peoples wealth by half.

another 7 days later 20 people where left to play the server and a month later i logged in one last time to chek the popularity and it was absolute 1 person... me.

it was very sad

Depends on what is your view of RP. I currently have about 25 mil+ in assets and investments. I wouldn't mind a wipe. What's sad about the server is the fact that many players are playing only for the money

[HobGoblin]

5 hours ago, Ritchie Stones said:

and if you reset all assets, then what stops people from giving up, it damages the server in every way.
even a guy with one car and house wil just give up and move on to another server because he feels this unfair.

let alone those who own 20 mil bussineses, and people who create events at their own expense from that.
they wil just move on, and a bunch of people wil be left in the city with 0 knowledge on how to thrive an economy at all. left in maximum 14 days of glory. before those die out aswell.

i have seen this happen in front of my eyes in 2014 where a vanila WOW server had 6000 players on daily base for 5 years, it got wiped in a bit over 7 days with 140 people left because of one update that wasnt complete and a small update that reduced peoples wealth by half.

another 7 days later 20 people where left to play the server and a month later i logged in one last time to chek the popularity and it was absolute 1 person... me.

it was very sad

If people are here for the RP they will stay, if they are here to grind assets then they will leave.

[Bala]

I think with all sincerity, the economy while inflated and out of whack is the way it is because of a lack of importance placed on it over a number of years and if you were to wipe assets at this point in time, it would mostly kill off the server's player base.

I don't mind if people are asset driven, as long as they are good community members. 

Eclipse has a special formula but one of the ingredients was never an exceptional level of roleplay, Part of it is, the grind for assets. It wasn't really ever that way for me because i've been in PD for 98% of the time I've been here so to an extent, I dont have the needs that some players do.