More Strict On Helping People Learn Then Punish On Reports

[XeV]

If a report is deemed to be a report to punish rather then teach the person reported should get some kind of forum report warning. To many people are out here just reporting left and right and shrinking the community.

 I have actually been brought to my limit on how reports are going about in recent time. It is not even a learning curve type thing anymore it is "oh person broke the rule get them punished I am angry grrrrr type shit". Back I do not know when there was a time where I rarely saw as many reports as I do now because constantly people where explaining what rules where broken and teaching people about what they did wrong in /b or Pms. My suggestion is before a report is even brought to the forums this is the chain of command to follow.

1. Person Breaks Rules

2. Inform them that hey I think you broke this rule and here is why I think you broke it, could you save pov and let me take a look at your pov. Pm or /b ANYTHING. Somehow any possible way try to resolve OOC, /Pm /b, discord messaging

3. Not getting anywhere OOC? now /report 3 or 4 and get an admin or mod

4. No admin or mod? No Choice but to inform the other person "Hey sadly there is no admin or mod online to get a 3rd opinion I am gonna take it to the forums to just a heads up get what you need ready and stuff"

It has been a constant issue where NO ONE is helping people learn or even trying to resolve OOC anymore it is just "/pm 187 hey save pov as i will be reporting for vdm".

As for how this should be implemented? I think every single report made should have evidence that it was at least ATTEMPTED to be solved OOC, but either the reported party was not being cooperative in pm's or logged off so there was no way to try to solve OOC. and if that is the case of not being online if it does go to forums. now they can solve it OOCly and no punishment should be given if both sides realize hey this was an accident and could have been easily avoided.

I am just sick of this straight to forums back and forth war mentality going on in this community. 

TLDR - New Report Guideline - Evidence that it was attempted to be solved OOCly before bringing brought to forums. Put more effort into the learning and not the punishing

TAKEN STRAIGHT FROM THE GUIDELINES - Please do not take reporting another player lightly and reserve player reports for situations that have caused severe loss or were abused for benefit. Consider if you could possibly teach this player or if you've tried to come to a resolution on your own. Reporting another player should be reserved for your final options when a rule breach has occurred. Always try to teach other players in the community, especially with newer players, as well as help them truly understand your point of view prior to simply reporting them if something doesn't go your way.

Edited January 27, 2022 by undead_vex

[XeV]

I make this as I want feedback from all angles so I understand the situation as whole from all perspectives and how to combat it. Please stay on topic and give people respect if their opinion is not the same as yours.

Edited January 27, 2022 by undead_vex

[Mooks]

Big +1

Recently me and a couple other friends decided to start a riot against PD at mission row. A couple people were told, the word was spread and eventually there was a big crowd as you can see the videos below. This was very fun for the rioters point of view (even myself which was the person who was getting tazed in the first place). Im not certain on what happened after as I was arrested and taken away from the riot however from what you can see in the videos it looked like a lot of fun for both parties. PD had something different to deal with for change and mostly crims with a few civilians were rioting for various reasons, a few of them being: Fire the Steels (detectives for the PD), Fuck PD in general, and a few other topics which where all for a reason.

This quickly quickly escalated when I got tazed and the whole crowd ran towards me and started saying free my boy Feliks etc... as people would in a real life riot. One thing lead to another and the PD rightfully so used tear gas and some other crowd control methods to disperse the group of people away from me for a successfull arrest. This lead to someone punching an officer because of the whole atmosphere and adrenaline I can imagine and presume, what does the officer do? Instantly "/pm 67 save pov ...". Sure, it was against the rules and the reporting party was in the right at the end of the day as the rule states that 

12. No Crime Zones (NCZ)

• Inside or very near to a No Crime Zone, indicated by the HUD or /NCZ command, players may not commit any crime or disobey law enforcement orders but are allowed to flee, lie, or scam IC.

But for the love of god its a bit of RP which was a bunch of fun yet the reporting party straight away goes for the rulebook. Officers get pushed and shoved in riots all the time, its nothing out the ordinary and very unfortunate that this player decided that it was a more sensible thing to report the punch rather than just play it out IC.

https://streamable.com/nl8t6h

 

This is not a personal attack or in no means any OOC hate from my side. I'm just giving my most recent example of playing to win rather than playing to roleplay.

[XeV]

39 minutes ago, Mooks said:

Big +1

Recently me and a couple other friends decided to start a riot against PD at mission row. A couple people were told, the word was spread and eventually there was a big crowd as you can see the videos below. This was very fun for the rioters point of view (even myself which was the person who was getting tazed in the first place). Im not certain on what happened after as I was arrested and taken away from the riot however from what you can see in the videos it looked like a lot of fun for both parties. PD had something different to deal with for change and mostly crims with a few civilians were rioting for various reasons, a few of them being: Fire the Steels (detectives for the PD), Fuck PD in general, and a few other topics which where all for a reason.

This quickly quickly escalated when I got tazed and the whole crowd ran towards me and started saying free my boy Feliks etc... as people would in a real life riot. One thing lead to another and the PD rightfully so used tear gas and some other crowd control methods to disperse the group of people away from me for a successfull arrest. This lead to someone punching an officer because of the whole atmosphere and adrenaline I can imagine and presume, what does the officer do? Instantly "/pm 67 save pov ...". Sure, it was against the rules and the reporting party was in the right at the end of the day as the rule states that 

12. No Crime Zones (NCZ)

• Inside or very near to a No Crime Zone, indicated by the HUD or /NCZ command, players may not commit any crime or disobey law enforcement orders but are allowed to flee, lie, or scam IC.

But for the love of god its a bit of RP which was a bunch of fun yet the reporting party straight away goes for the rulebook. Officers get pushed and shoved in riots all the time, its nothing out the ordinary and very unfortunate that this player decided that it was a more sensible thing to report the punch rather than just play it out IC.

https://streamable.com/nl8t6h

 

This is not a personal attack or in no means any OOC hate from my side. I'm just giving my most recent example of playing to win rather than playing to roleplay.

yah this was one of MANY factors that brought to me making this post, I have been involved in these "Riots" before. The rule is cut and dry, but I never understood this report based on the Guideline specifically saying - Please do not take reporting another player lightly and reserve player reports for situations that have caused severe loss or were abused for benefit. What is the loss in this report? and what was abused for benefit? I have noticed a lot of cops or just people in general will start going the route of reporting behavior when a RP scenario is not to THEIR liking or going a way THEY want. As for the riot I mean there was SO MUCH FUCKING DESYNC i had to leave as my game was just refusing to load textures at the amount of people there. This type of RP even though it borders the line of breaking the major NCZ rule to me was awesome and I enjoy every second of it. Obviously though I can see the other side as well, but everyone wants to pick and choose between IRL and the Video Game depending on the scenario. I personally just feel this report is petty and deters people from ever wanting to do or participate in something like this again and to me that's just sad as this "Out Of the norm" RP is what I strive for this server to have. The fact that this many people of opposing gangs,factions, can come together ICly to fight a single cause is heartwarming. Cause despite the indifferences people had in game they all came together and threw their differences aside to fight one cause and that RP is fucking amazing.

Obviously No hate towards anyone OOC I just want to stop being afraid to engage in certain RP scenarios with Certain people or factions because of repeated behavior of report first and not teach.

Edited January 27, 2022 by undead_vex

[Actualbears]

4 hours ago, Mooks said:

Big +1

Recently me and a couple other friends decided to start a riot against PD at mission row. A couple people were told, the word was spread and eventually there was a big crowd as you can see the videos below. This was very fun for the rioters point of view (even myself which was the person who was getting tazed in the first place). Im not certain on what happened after as I was arrested and taken away from the riot however from what you can see in the videos it looked like a lot of fun for both parties. PD had something different to deal with for change and mostly crims with a few civilians were rioting for various reasons, a few of them being: Fire the Steels (detectives for the PD), Fuck PD in general, and a few other topics which where all for a reason.

This quickly quickly escalated when I got tazed and the whole crowd ran towards me and started saying free my boy Feliks etc... as people would in a real life riot. One thing lead to another and the PD rightfully so used tear gas and some other crowd control methods to disperse the group of people away from me for a successfull arrest. This lead to someone punching an officer because of the whole atmosphere and adrenaline I can imagine and presume, what does the officer do? Instantly "/pm 67 save pov ...". Sure, it was against the rules and the reporting party was in the right at the end of the day as the rule states that 

12. No Crime Zones (NCZ)

• Inside or very near to a No Crime Zone, indicated by the HUD or /NCZ command, players may not commit any crime or disobey law enforcement orders but are allowed to flee, lie, or scam IC.

But for the love of god its a bit of RP which was a bunch of fun yet the reporting party straight away goes for the rulebook. Officers get pushed and shoved in riots all the time, its nothing out the ordinary and very unfortunate that this player decided that it was a more sensible thing to report the punch rather than just play it out IC.

https://streamable.com/nl8t6h

 

This is not a personal attack or in no means any OOC hate from my side. I'm just giving my most recent example of playing to win rather than playing to roleplay.

Tid bit of a problem now since this thread has went to throwing me under a proverbial bus and putting a target on my back both IC'ly and OOC'ly by making an entire forum thread about it instead of discussing it through PM's. 
 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Actualbears

[Asuna.]

I hope this doesn't come off in a rude way as that isn't my intention at all, but for such a diverse character as Juan I thought with the whole PD riot, Juan would indulge himself in the chance of Alternate RP instead of reporting everybody because it made life a little harder IC. Maybe being able to use PDs extreme measures within SWAT to disperse a crowd could be fun and unique for everyone involved. People were having fun and doing something a little bit different at the expense of PD which was the entire point of the riot. When ICly there are a few glaring issues pointed out by the media, realistically riots(peaceful or not) will happen, but abandoning the chance to RP and keep it all IC really sucks because after watching the footage it seemed like a fun sense of RP. Again don't take this in a wrong way as I don't know what's happened beyond the footage but I just think sometimes there are better way to handle things than instantly get names for a forum report.

[Destuin]

2 hours ago, Actualbears said:

Tid bit of a problem now since this thread has went to throwing me under a proverbial bus and putting a target on my back both IC'ly and OOC'ly by making an entire forum thread about it instead of discussing it through PM's. 
 

I mean why didn't you just get all the on duty police there and stop the riot? Instead of trying to hide behind NCZ rules, which will surely be getting removed because of this. You could have RP'ed this so well, instead you sent and underwhelming number of officers and decided to hide behind OOC rules. The reason why your example was picked out I do not know.

This thread is about more of an OOC teaching moment. However I don't know if this is really possible anymore. Most of the community are experienced players and have there own interpretation of the rules, as unfortunately the rules cannot be black and white. This is why PMing people does not really work. I think as a community we are generally pretty good at explaining stuff to new players if they break a rule rather than going to forums or instantly reporting them.  

[Mooks]

7 hours ago, Actualbears said:

Tid bit of a problem now since this thread has went to throwing me under a proverbial bus and putting a target on my back both IC'ly and OOC'ly by making an entire forum thread about it instead of discussing it through PM's. 
 

Hey Juan,

I don't know you ICly or OOCly at all which gives me absolutely no reason to like you said "proverbially throw you under the bus" as these weren't my intentions at all. I just wanted to point my most recent interaction with an RP scenario which could've been played out a little bit better. This wasn't a personal attack on you simply a chance to demonstrate what it is that we should avoid doing as a community to better it in the future. One thing that would've made the RP of higher quality was if you saved his ID somewhere on notepad document or something and simply explain why he should try and not do that in the future and instead maybe just RP the pushing and shoving for a more emersive RP experience. Once again. I have nothing against you OOCly I'm just using this RP scenario as an example of what should be avoided in situations where you feel another player broke a "not so RP ruining rule" if you will.

[XeV]

13 hours ago, Actualbears said:

Tid bit of a problem now since this thread has went to throwing me under a proverbial bus and putting a target on my back both IC'ly and OOC'ly by making an entire forum thread about it instead of discussing it through PM's. 
 

No one is throwing anyone under the bus. Trust me EVERYONE is aware of this report you made and does not need to be shown it to know about it. You reported a mass majority of the community. To be honest what did you expect to happen this is the internet sadly and we all hide behind computer monitors. You WILL receive hate both icly and oocly for your actions and its absolute shit that it happens, but nothing we can do about it now. the report has already been made. All I can say is mentally prepare for the outcome of it. And I wish you the best.

[TheCactus]

I do not know what "back in the day" you are referring to. If I think at my "back in the day", I remember 3 full pages of reports due to the server population and most of them were legitimate because the rules were stricter. Everyone would spam save POV, overuse /b when not necessary and there was no room for teaching or learning because the objective was getting the person punished and get the items refunded.

I believe the current situation is actually better than ever. The toxicity has been suppressed, there's only 1 page of reports which isn't even full and while people don't resolve disputes in discord as much as they used to, at least they do not flood the chat with /b.

I do not know on which reality you are coming from but this is what was going on 2/3 years ago.

With that being said, I really do not see the issue(s) with the current system. If a report should not have been posted (for various reasons) you already get a petty report warning. I think you created this suggestion after reading one or two reports you don't agree with, instead of it being a legitimate concern with the community's behavior.

Edited January 28, 2022 by TheCactus

[Curtins]

2 hours ago, TheCactus said:

I do not know what "back in the day" you are referring to. If I think at my "back in the day", I remember 3 full pages of reports due to the server population and most of them were legitimate because the rules were stricter. Everyone would spam save POV, overuse /b when not necessary and there was no room for teaching or learning because the objective was getting the person punished and get the items refunded.

I believe the current situation is actually better than ever. The toxicity has been suppressed, there's only 1 page of reports which isn't even full and while people don't resolve disputes in discord as much as they used to, at least they do not flood the chat with /b.

I do not know on which reality you are coming from but this is what was going on 2/3 years ago.

With that being said, I really do not see the issue(s) with the current system. If a report should not have been posted (for various reasons) you already get a petty report warning. I think you created this suggestion after reading one or two reports you don't agree with, instead of it being a legitimate concern with the community's behavior.

i agree MR TheCactus you are very wise

[Buggs]

Big +1 for this.

As one of the "pettiest" people on ECRP, I can agree that this way of moving forward can only HELP to aid the community in better RP for all.

I had a situation where I made a report after trying to follow your list of things, but I got no where OOCLY as they continued to tell me without actually explaining, that they were okay to perform an action I felt was completely NRP. Despite NO actual admin confirmation of this ruling being said to me, he was able to comment on the report and say that I knew the report had been completed and he didn't know why I went to the forums. When I had already OOCLY informed him after both of us trying to explain our sides of it that I was going to report, he was still able to lie in his response and the report was closed. I never spoke to or heard from "Kat" that entire night, who apparently had been the one to rule on the situation.

Unfortunately, I am not apart of PD/SD and was not able to go into a TeamSpeak channel to explain to admins as to why my side of the event painted a NRP picture, however he informed me several times OOCLY that he was talking to admins in TS and they told him not to worry. None of these admins said a word to me about it. It's almost as if he got treated a different way then I did during this report because of his faction status and not because of anyone actually wanting to improve/work on RP.