Demonmit1

buying cars with real money for the sake of their performance is just straight up pay to win. reducing pay to win is a very good move for the health of the server. You still own the car, you can still drive it, but the rebalance to performance mod costs was a very well needed change.

removed in less than a week... lol

this suggestion changes nothing in the profit per hour of cooking drugs. the drugs should take longer to cook, so to compensate without affecting the profit per hour, the individual price of each drug would go up too.

just make the medical system scripted, then theres no arguing over quality of RP for treating wounds, and intentionally having double standards of RP, where when you get shot in a gang fight and you want to live, your friend can /cpr you with a "/me puts icepack", but when you're going to get arrested, its all stalling responses, talking in /f chat rather than responding to RP, arguing about quality of treatment given, etc etc etc. just script the BLS system/ cpr command:

-1 there shouldn't be OOC rules to protect criminal lower RP standards. There is already enough of that. We don't need MORE double standards of RP.

and? Faction leadership / LFM should be happy to crack down on players in law enforcement that take this mindset, with a goal of only winning, and remove people who act like that from the faction. simple. Its odd that a leader in LSPD is so openly admitting to wanting to play to win specifically to spite criminal players. all our stuff is free we spawn in. so what, more people for us to shoot at, and the stuff despawns in 6 hours since its pulled out, its not like they can stockpile it... And we can write up charges and new laws to bleed their wallets dry for the theft of law enforcement equipment, or add on the "of a government employee" for possession charges, giving them a 1.5x multiplier to their fines. the system is there to support higher repercussions. some people just dont want the chance to lose it seems, lol.

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/171231-judicial-branch-ideas-high-risk-high-reward/

The only argument I've seen about private labs being removed is that it encouraged people to be involved in solo activities inside an interior to make money by themselves. What happened when private labs were removed? everyone now does house robberies, a solo activity inside an interior to make money by yourself... So... what was the point? the script exists, it was balanced in the cost, upkeep slower output, and high risk of getting caught by law enforcement if you screwed up. can we get that back?

can it be updated so that stuff that literally cant be removed like the uniform or weapons dont despawn then? im very aware of the lockpick issue that happened earlier this year, but can the stuff just not be sellable to the pawnshop? if its marked as government property, the pawnshop shouldnt buy it, why do we need it to despawn?

its been over half a year since the government equipment script was added in so that any /FL spawned items despawn after 6 hours. this was followed up by the notice that cops would eventually become lootable. Either do that, or stop my gear from randomly despawning. thanks.

The concept is more like, oh you got ran over, its a single injury in /mywounds, a player doing BLS on you has to complete a single minigame to /CPR you. you get in a fist fight, the /mywounds is like 6 wounds, now its 2 minigames that need to be completed to /cpr you. you get in a gunfight, and have 20 gunshot wounds all around you , now its 5 minigames need to be completed to successfully /cpr you. having a medical license, on duty EMS, or having a better BLS kit like an IFAK or ALS kit, would make the minigames much easier to complete.

yeah thats reasonable to request. The point of making BLS more of a scripted interaction is just to make it fair and consistent. no more arguing about /do does this help? and then being told no, as if the player being treated has any idea of basic medical treatment, and then an argument being after RP is forced. it also solves the issue of abuse of the command, with no to absolute minimal RP being used to rush through it when being BLS'ed is an advantage for a player. This is where I disagree. I dont know the correct way to implement what I want, but there could be some form of mechanic that allows easier BLS depending on the type of BLS kit you have, along with having a BLS license or being an on duty EMS. this would allow typical BLS kits to be the standard, while getting possession of a IFAK, or a ALS kit, either through theft, corruption, etc, would be a benefit for criminal players. these "government only" assets that are better than the default being something accessible via /FL would create some value for non government players to obtain these items however they see fit. Generating interactions, conflict, etc, which fosters player to player RP.

GND on both sides has an internal rule of not being allowed to have alternate characters that are affiliated with criminal gangs, and you're not even allowed to join an official for 3 months after you resign on your LEO character. I sorta get why, it fixes the perception of GND not being able to play favorites or use their GND power against rival factions to their crim alt, but... the question needs to be asked. If LFM/PD/SD cant trust someone not to metagame, why are they allowed to be GND?

Gone are the days of "/do would this help?" and then arguing with the player over the quality of medical RP. Lets have a scripted medical system. how? 1. using /mywounds, the quantity of wounds, along with the players wellness, would determine the severity of the "wounds" 2. Based on the severity of the wounds, a player attempting BLS on another has to complete a certain number of minigames ( AFAIK, Thang had developed several different minigames other than the circle minigame, like the newer waking up someone from unconscious) completing the minigames without failing will determine your success or failure of providing adequate medical treatment. 3. Make BLS kits / IFAKs, / ALS kits a physical item with durability. being in possession of a kit is required to provide BLS. different kits have different hit points of durability. BLS < IFAK < ALS. 4. anyone can do BLS, but having a Medical License makes the minigames easier. being on duty as EMS makes them even easier. fair way to justify "skill/training" as a character.

+1 crims need counterplay to detectives/investigators. would make it more fun for DB/SIB having to deal with this.

The point was to reduce the quantity being produced. But to do that would heavily reduce profit per hour for cooking, so the value of each drug would have to go up based on how much slower it is to cook each drug, making the individual drug item more expensive to not mess with the money per hour. If drugs took 10x longer to cook, they would be more scarce, so more player to player trade would happen since the demand for drugs to use would remain the same, rather than 99% of drugs going to NPCs to print money

I completely agree with you. That is the entire purpose of my suggestion. The fact that you are so passionately arguing for the very thing my rule change would allow proves my point. The current rules prevent you from taking a legitimate hostage, which is why your group resorts to these rule-breaking, low-quality tactics.

all the drugs should be viable options, with positives and negatives. right now, there's no negatives, with incredibly strong positives. I made a previous suggestion that would limit the quantity as a balanced "negative" without affecting the value, but people flipped out because that would force them to be more strategic using the more expensive drugs for their insane buffs, and not being able shit out 100's of drugs an hour flooding the server with them, rather than actually making drugs valuable and in line with the servers economy balanced with the buffs they provide. its obnoxious that a taco costs more than a magic health regen blunt, or that the significantly worse painkiller costs 3x as much, and you can OD on for taking a second one too soon. Since the drug update came out, devs really should have looked into balancing the buffs and debuffs, so things are viable, but the meta has focused on just a handful, while everything else is just ignored or only produced to sell to NPCs for profit. everything has been min/maxed out, the meta should be shaken up every once in a while to keep things moving and cycling. are you guys not fuckin bored of waiting around for a good LSD lab to be opened so you can go make some money cooking? the suggestion could be better refined, but I can see an interesting gameplay loop happening that top quality drugs have no downsides, as a reward for people who do the grind to level their drug cooking, and to foster a player to player market for these high quality drugs. the rest of the qualities could have a chance to have a negative effect, making them a much cheaper, but riskier option. having actual, reasonable negative effects to illegal drug use, as legal drug use currently has, is a fair suggestion to make. arguing against that is just blatant play to win mentality.

The developers implemented the Wellness system to create a downside for powerful drug use. However, the player base has inverted this mechanic. Criminals intentionally keeping their Wellness low because it allows them to die faster and evade arrest, fines, and jail time. This means that currently, the most powerful combat drugs on the server have no effective downside. They provide a massive advantage in a fight, and their only 'penalty' is a feature that helps players escape the consequences of losing, or a negligible visual effect that can instantly be removed by Methadone, which has become even easier to obtain recently. Therefore, to fix this broken loop, we need non-negotiable side effects that affect a player during combat. We need mechanics like input delays, forced mouse shake, uncontrolled actions, and forced animations, all of which are based on systems already proven to be possible on this server. There are lots of fun and create ways we can have negative effects on drug use, especially now that we have the quality differences in drugs, the higher quality could have lesser chances to cause the negative effects, fostering a player to player market for people whove taken the time to level drug cooking and sell the higher quality drugs for personal use, rather than selling to an NPC for money.

Law enforcement using in-character information to determine that a hostage situation isn't legitimate is not powergaming. Powergaming involves forcing actions or roleplaying unrealistic abilities. Making a tactical decision based on evidence gathered through IC investigation is fundamental to law enforcement roleplay. I'd love to tell you how, but it is so blatantly common for emotional, upset criminal playersto take information learned out of character, and use it against law enforcement in character to get a guaranteed win, so I wont explain to you how. You're arguing "what if" scenarios, but those hypotheticals aren't what is actually happening. We are consistently seeing coordinated groups act as a unit, with no prior roleplay to support the sudden betrayal you describe. The actions on the scene do not align with the story you're proposing. Threatening to break rules if things don't go your way is a clear example of the "play to win" mentality I'm talking about. My suggestion is not about LEOs winning, it's about improving the quality of roleplay for everyone involved. And to be perfectly clear: I could file a forum report after every one of these incidents. The "fake hostage" tactic is a clear-cut case of Ruleplaying. But I haven't, because punishing players for a behavior that the current rules encourage isn't fair and doesn't solve the underlying problem. You're trying to use OOC rules of nonRP, deathmatching, and powergaming against law enforcement involved in the situation, yet your whole faction is openly admitting to ruleplaying by acknowledging in their Faction chat it was a fake hostage. Then theres the metagaming issue, discussing strategy in OOC chat to use in the next bank attempt, while in game at the bank in front of law enforcement, ignoring and stalling their RP. And then the play to win mentality. rather than the discussion about how this could have been roleplayed better, your gang is discussing what member would be better to pick next time to use as a fake hostage to trick us. And to address the argument that LEOs must "preserve all life" regardless: You are right, we do. But that applies to a legitimate threat. When the "hostage" is a willing accomplice who arrived and robbed the bank with the crew, there is no credible threat from the robbers. Demanding we adhere to a realistic LEO standard while you engage in a completely unrealistic and fabricated scenario is the very definition of Ruleplaying. This blatantly proves my point, and it exactly why i made this original suggestion. The current rule is forcing y'all into this behavior. Reducing the rules on hostage RP to allow for legitimate hostages would get rid of this low effort, rule-breaking meta and be a positive roleplay experience for everyone. The SERVER RULES, as written, make it nearly impossible for criminals to take a legitimate hostage for a planned robbery. This is what creates the "fake hostage" meta in the first place. I am advocating for that rule to be changed so that real hostage situations with real stakes can happen. My goal is to replace a low-quality, rule-bending tactic with an opportunity for genuine, engaging roleplay for both sides, not to help gangs "ruleplay their way to victory."

i highly disagree. taking an affiliate hostage who was actively involved in the bank robbery, then using them as a "hostage" to bargain your way out is the purest form of playing to win, lol. especially when law enforcement have the ability to determine quite accurately if the hostage is legitimate or not both before, during, and after the fact. lol. Law enforcement arent just going to roll over and play to your every whim when we know without a doubt your bluffing. every time this has happened, the "hostage" evades along with the rest of the bank robbers. its blatent. we've even watched crims take one "hostage", realize we recognize them, then take a different one "hostage"... lol The current hostage rules make having a legitimate hostage basically impossible. being a legitimate hostage sucks, and they need to be compensated for their involvement. thats what my suggestion here is for, to allow for real hostages to happen, and to make it fair for the random person being forced into the situation.

Right now, bank robberies with "fake hostages" are becoming pretty common. a gang robs a bank, and then if law enforcement get there before they evade, they use one of their own members as a fake hostage, trying to bluff their way out of the bank. LEO's especially GND, are quite well equipped to call out this bluff due to our investigative work. Because of this, the "hostage" negotiations go nowhere, it becomes a shootout or a forced give up on the criminals involved, and its an overall negative experience from the criminal RP side, as shown by the reports and OOC discussion around it. Why does this happen? our current hostage roleplay rules are so incredibly strict that the chances of actually naturally coming across a hostage to use for a bank basically isn't designed to happen. So, I want to make a suggestion to alter the rules for hostage roleplay. There should be an exception to the rule to allow groups planning on robbing a bank, to be allowed to take a random hostage from anywhere, and use them for the robbery. Now, this would have to come with a lot of rules along with it, to keep it fair. You can kidnap one random player to be your "Hostage of Opportunity. The kidnapping must lead directly into the robbery. It has to be one continuous scene to prevent abuse. You cannot rob the hostage of their personal items or money. Their only purpose is to be a bargaining chip. This would also come with a slight change to nonRP and DM rules for law enforcement: As long as the hostage is unharmed, LEOs have to prioritize their life and negotiate in good faith. The moment the hostage is injured or killed by the robbers, the negotiation is over. LEOs get immediate full DM rights on all suspects involved. This makes for actual hostage roleplay and negotiations to happen, and keep it high stakes for both sides. the bank robbers have a real reason to keep the hostage safe, and law enforcement have a real reason to take the hostage threat seriously. And then finally, we have to think about the hostage player. being ripped from whatever current roleplay they're in against their will at gunpoint to be used as a tool by a group of criminals, would probably suck major donkey balls to be forced into. so, the best way I can think of is to fairly compensate the player for the situation. This is where LFM would step in and create a "Victim Compensation Fund" system, that is handled by law enforcement, both SD and PD. The point is to respect the hostage players time. This would work out like the FLD lost firearms system, where it counts for both being alive and NLR'ed, so either way you get compensated. Basically, there should be a Victim fund application, something SUPER simple, that can be quickly reviewed by SD/PD members. This payout can be modified to be whatever fair level LFM/law enforcement consider, but maybe $25,000 is a good place to start? the point of it being handled IC through a form is to check affiliation ICly of the hostage, to make sure they're not involved with the group that did the bank robbery, attempting to abuse the system. I think a change like this would be a overall win for everyone involved. Criminals actually get to plan a bank robbery, and have a hostage that is respected by law enforcement law enforcement have actual fun, tense hostage negotiations at banks and get pursuits from it The hostage is fully protected from theft, loss, and is generously compensated for their time and involvement in the RP. This would open up the chance for players to actually do real hostages without breaking rules, and get rid of the stale fake hostage meta that only pisses off both sides for how they play out. thoughts?

After spending thousands of hours on this server on both sides of the conflict,as a longtime criminal and now as a LEO, wanted to offer some perspective on the why behind the current system and propose a real, tangible path forward that I think could benefit everyone. A lot of the discussion has focused on the 100 AP for crims vs. 150 AP for specialized LEO divisions (SEB/METRO). On the surface, that looks like a simple imbalance. However, from a server balance perspective, that 50 AP gap didn't come from nowhere. It exists as a direct, albeit heavy-handed, countermeasure to the single most powerful combat mechanic in the game: the superhuman drug buffs available to criminals. Let's be direct about it. As it stands, a criminal can consume a cocktail of drugs that provides: A flat 40% damage reduction from bullets. Active health regeneration. An increase to their maximum health pool. These buffs are so powerful that, as I mentioned before, LEOs have been willing to risk OOC punishment and faction removal just to use them. When you stack these effects on top of 100 AP, a "stimmed up" criminal is already far more durable than a 150 AP officer. The current LEO armor advantage is simply the server's way of trying to keep its elite units from being statistically irrelevant against this chemical warfare. This has created the unhealthy meta we have now. Criminals feel they must use these drugs to compete, and LEOs rely on a gear advantage to counter them. It's a stalemate that limits tactical diversity. So, here is a potential grand bargain. This is a path to a more skill-based and balanced server, but it requires addressing both sides of the equation. The Proposal: I, and I believe many other LEOs, could fully support adding 150 AP vests for criminal organizations under two strict conditions: They are a true end-game asset. They should be added to the highest-tier import system at an exorbitantly expensive price. They shouldn't be common. They should be the reward for a criminal faction reaching the absolute pinnacle of the server. a strategic asset you save for the most important operations. This makes their acquisition a fair mirror to the time and dedication it takes to become a SWAT operator. (This is the non-negotiable part) The "superhuman" drug buffs must be rebalanced. The 40% damage reduction, specifically, cannot exist in a world with symmetrical armor. The drugs should be reworked to become what they should have been all along: situational, tactical tools with clear negative trade-offs. They should give you a slight, temporary edge in a specific situation (e.g., a short speed boost, faster stamina regen), not turn you into a walking tank, and should have lasting, neg effects for consistent use, long term addiction side effects, etc. Why This is a Better System for Everyone: If we make this change, we shift the entire conflict meta away from a gear-check and a drug-check and toward what everyone wants: a skill-check. Criminals get a clear, objective-based end-game progression goal. LEOs get to engage in fights that are decided by tactics and teamwork, not by whether the other guy pre-popped a god-mode buff. The server gets more diverse and compelling roleplay, moving beyond the stale "hit-and-run" or "stim-stack ambush" metas. This isn't about LEOs "winning" or criminals "winning." It's about creating a balanced and engaging system where the outcome of a fight is determined by the choices you make, not by a pre-existing gear disparity or a chemical arms race.

Yeah? Because that's the topic of this forum post. The rest of what you've said has been discussed to death over and over and over again. The topic is about AP. As far as I know, LEO only has 150 AP for SEB/Metro. Not 175, not 200. And as we were just told, 150/200 so doesn't exist for crim. As been discussed, the superhuman buffs available from consuming drugs makes up for the difference between crim with 100 AP and stimmed up, vs the 150 AP of metro/SEB operators.

cool idea. we have different tiers of tools, like screwdriver vs hotwire kit, so there's precedent already for something like this. would be a good addition.