Police brutality and justice system

[Emir Bellic]

I am tiired of cops being protected by admins...90% of the cops dont know how to roleplay properly.Everytime they pull someone over they call for a backup and even when you comply they just come from behind your back and put cuffs on you without telling you the reason or giving you chance to roleplay.You need to change this,if the cop wants to arrest someone than it should be the same way rest of us do.That means point the gun on player and tell him to step out of vehicle ,if he comply than the use of commands /me and /do would be meaningfull.This way they  are giving you no space to react they just put cufs on you and then say what happend and when you try to roleplay they say to you on OOC channel "how do you do that when you are cuffed".And until 30 second rule i cant answer make a situation because 4 more cops come in that moment .Police officers giving charges and no justice system at all,like having the lawyer and triing to get that debt smaller and shit.YEah let us create justice court and have lawyers and judges because these cops give you fines by whatever they want,if i say "FUCK OFF" he will give you a fine for insulting officer than the other for this and that...Also Tickets system is a shit, you put speedmeters one near other as stupid as it sounds.I never seen two speedmeters in real life one near another so this shit is unrealistic.Fix this cause its not realistic at all,the way police officers communicate while cuffing you and not giving you 30 second time to reply or even when they cuf you they dont use command /do most of the times,i consider it metagaming because in 30 sec 4 more cops come at the scene and there is no much time to make a scene.SO yes 30 sec rule has been broken many times from the cops and i didnt seen that admins reacted.So i think they are fully protected from admins.I mean if they want to be cop thats their decission but let me roleplay this at least i didnt came here because some kid want to be a cop and have fully protection from the server and thinks he can do whatever he wants,I would rather see an example of admins how would they react if they are in that situation.

[Emir Bellic]

also one more thing COPS should have a reason for pulling you over,if i respected all the traffic signalization and even i am wanted criminal he shouldnt be able just like that to pull me over for no reason and then find out things about me.Like i experianced the guy pulled me over for no reason and then he found out i have unpayed tickets and arrested me.At least he could roleplayed it and try to follow me to have reason to pull me over.In real life police pull over only those who break traffic rules and are wanted that means got recognized on the street by them but how would he knows if i pass by him with mask on.It breaks the xp of roleplay and it really sucks.If 4 cops come and the scene still isnt over than thats metagaming i guess because they have been aware of situation before it even happend at least shouldnt have the situation on ready unti lthe scene finishes...

Edited September 9, 2019 by Emir Bellic

[smutty]

Cops aren't protected by admin. Look in the reports forums for examples. 

100% of the officers I play with know how to RP. In fact it is part of recruitment and if you don't have sufficient RP skill during your interview, you don't get in. RP is something that's also judged during every part of your PD career.

Just because you get cuffed it doesn't mean you're being arrested. Sometimes you are detained for questioning or during an investigation. If you're arrested you're told why. 

Sometimes cops show up for backup without being promoted. If I see a fellow officer has someone pulled over, I may go and post up behind him, just in case. This also happens in the real world. If the officer tells me they have the situation under control then I drive away. If they have run your plate and determined that the vehicle owner (not the driver) has felony warrants then they call for backup. Simple as that. 

There is no fine for insulting an officer, just so you know. 

The speed cameras were put in the game by admins, not police, but anyone that knows otherwise please feel free to correct me. 

If you have video of you being pulled over "for no reason" or harassment, then submit an IA report, or forum report if it breaks server rules. 

You might have the wrong idea of what metagaming is, have a look in the rules. Just because 4 officers show up, that doesn't mean it's MG. 

Also, this 30 second thing you keep mentioning. I think what you're implying is that RP is moving along after you stopped responding after, I guess you feel it's been 30 seconds. Only an admin can pause an RP situation. If the officer says he's going to cuff you and then says /do would anything stop me? and you don't reply after repeated attempts to continue and a given amount of time passes, then yes, RP will continue without your consent. Just because you don't agree that doesn't mean you can pause RP. If you feel server rules have been broken then do a /report in game so an admin comes to the scene and pause RP to clear things up. 

[FleecyJake]

So, This situation you are talking about I was involved in, What happened is a Cop Scanned your Plates and noticed you had a reckless driving and that means you need to serve jail time, In this case he was on a motorcycle unit and he is unable to transport people with a bike, He called for backup and thats when I arrived, and the situation started with you not wanting to continue RP and wait for an admin, after multiple times we told you that you are unable to pause RP you kept saying no and mixxing IC and OOC. We had a reason to pull you over and that was because you had something on your record when we scanned your bike

[Brixton]

Hey there Emir! So I did not really catch a suggestion in there aside of a lot of things you dislike about PD / Justice. Some people feel the same way you do, trust me - while others do not. I would take the time to report incidents that you feel are wrong to PD Command.

If it was an out of character rule. You need to gather evidence as well and /report this if its actively taking place, or post in the forums if the situation had concluded already.

 

Quote

.Police officers giving charges and no justice system at all,like having the lawyer and triing to get that debt smaller and shit.YEah let us create justice court and have lawyers and judges because these cops give you fines by whatever they want,if i say "FUCK OFF" he will give you a fine for insulting officer than the other for this and that...Also Tickets system is a shit, you put speedmeters one near other as stupid as it sounds.I never seen two speedmeters in real life one near another so this shit is unrealistic.Fix this cause its not realistic at all,the way police officers communicate while cuffing you and not giving you 30 second time to reply or even when they cuf you they dont use command /do most of the times

To this I would say if you ever find an officer metagaming, not roleplaying properly, you can also take this to command or even /report. LSPD specifically focuses and strives on communication and Accountability, so surely leadership wont be to happy finding out about an officer. Everyone on this server wants justice and what not but wont take the time to report a Police Officer for wrong doings. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Brixton

[Freclan]

bruh

[Kingsby]

Hey bud, I believe I was the Deputy that pulled out over the other day on the bike. You were at the mines correct? 

Look bud I get what you are saying but in reality you probably wouldn't run from the Sheriff/Police anyway. However, if that is your role-play wish to do so that is fine. The reason for pulling you over was not just because of tickets as I told you at the time, you had other charges as well as unpaid tickets. The situation and 911 call that Police and Sheriffs got was that a man on a motorcycle was robbing people at the mines. You fit the description and your plates were ran though the system. Another misunderstanding that you had was that backup was called for no reason. There was a Deputy in training that needed to have the practice of arresting and processing a 10-15(Suspect in custody). That is why another additional unit arrived. In this situation it wasn't feasible for you to run, however, that doesn't mean the system is broken, it means you were unlucky this time and you were caught. 

As for admins 'protecting' Police/Sheriff's, that is abundantly untrue. The admins are fair and they look at each case in an unbiased manner. If they believe an Officer/Deputy was in the wrong, they will say so and punish as needed. Failing that, if you still feel you got the short straw and were treated unfairly, create a report and fight your case with the evidence you have. As Brixton said you can contact different people for different issues, file an IA report for an IC issue you are unhappy with or a player report on the forms if you feel an OOC rule has been broken. There are ways and means of going about showing your point but creating a lengthy post suggesting no real change and simply sounding off about PD/SD isn't helpful for anyone. 

I hope that your next time in a situation similar you will appreciate that PD/SD do their best to accommodate all sides of role-play, they certainly do not force role-play nor do they not allow you to form coherent and realistic role-play. I assure you everyone within the departments is well aware of how to role-play correctly.  

Edited September 9, 2019 by Gavin McMurphy

[Xoza]

Well.. seriously need to break this down.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 AM, Emir Bellic said:

I am tiired of cops being protected by admins...90% of the cops dont know how to roleplay properly.Everytime they pull someone over they call for a backup and even when you comply they just come from behind your back and put cuffs on you without telling you the reason or giving you chance to roleplay.

• 90% of the time it's because what the officer is doing, is legitimate or has an IC reason.
• Officers are trained extensively and must pass training in order for them to become an officer, they are graded even in Roleplay capability.
• If an officer feels like you are a threat or threat to others or could use additional's or you have a history, they have the right to call for backup, just like you do. 
• An officer doesn't need to tell you why you are being detained. If they give you an answer it could be as non-informative as 'pending further investigation'. Once you are 'arrested' they will tell you the charges you face. Yes, you should always know your charges before your imprisonment papers are filed.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 AM, Emir Bellic said:

...if the cop wants to arrest someone than it should be the same way rest of us do.That means point the gun on player and tell him to step out of vehicle ,if he comply than the use of commands /me and /do would be meaningfull.This way they  are giving you no space to react they just put cufs on you and then say what happend and when you try to roleplay they say to you on OOC channel "how do you do that when you are cuffed".And until 30 second rule i cant answer make a situation because 4 more cops come in that moment .

Jeez this is a mess...

• Force continuum exists for a reason, it's all, also IC.
• A good suspect interaction goes like this and depends on reaction... [ Request > Lawful Order > Taser (incapacitate?) > Gun? (Incapacitate?) ] and all depends on the crime, history and escalation.
• You are always free to /me /do anytime. Others will likely have /me /do in response though. You have 30 seconds to react which is plenty of time to do a lot.
  • Officer: /me goes to cuff the suspect /do success?
  • Citizen: /do no
  • Officer: /do why?
  • Citizen: /me kicks at the officers shin to run away. /do success?
  • One or the other agrees or both /dice?
• If you are cuffed, you shouldn't be doing anything which requires hands.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 AM, Emir Bellic said:

Police officers giving charges and no justice system at all,like having the lawyer and triing to get that debt smaller and shit.YEah let us create justice court and have lawyers and judges because these cops give you fines by whatever they want,if i say "FUCK OFF" he will give you a fine for insulting officer than the other for this and that...Also Tickets system is a shit, you put speedmeters one near other as stupid as it sounds.I never seen two speedmeters in real life one near another so this shit is unrealistic.

• If you want to be part of the Justice system, join the police department.
• Officers are trusted ICly and OOCly bound to be fair and just to not only citizens but players as well. True, there are some activities and interactions that could be better, but that's why IA exists and forum reporting.
• There isn't a charge for 'insulting an officer'.
• Yep, speed cameras suck. They don't exist where I live, but they do exist. What sucks more is people driving 160 through a heavily populated area and plowing through 5 cars injuring 8 people because 'they didn't load'.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 AM, Emir Bellic said:

Fix this cause its not realistic at all,the way police officers communicate while cuffing you and not giving you 30 second time to reply or even when they cuf you they dont use command /do most of the times,i consider it metagaming because in 30 sec 4 more cops come at the scene and there is no much time to make a scene.SO yes 30 sec rule has been broken many times from the cops and i didnt seen that admins reacted.So i think they are fully protected from admins.I mean if they want to be cop thats their decission but let me roleplay this at least i didnt came here because some kid want to be a cop and have fully protection from the server and thinks he can do whatever he wants,I would rather see an example of admins how would they react if they are in that situation.

• It's actually considered powergaming. Report it on the forums, this isn't only a 'cop' thing.
• Not going to say this doesn't happen, but I don't think I've really ever seen many in reputable factions (criminal included) not use /me tries something /do success?
• Still not sure about this 30 second thing you have an issue with. You have 30 seconds to reply, if you can reply sooner, you should, delaying a response, especially when you are capable is stalling RP of which you should not be doing intentionally. ICly it could be taken as resistance.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 AM, Emir Bellic said:

I mean if they want to be cop thats their decission but let me roleplay this at least i didnt came here because some kid want to be a cop and have fully protection from the server and thinks he can do whatever he wants,I would rather see an example of admins how would they react if they are in that situation.

• There are plenty of admin punishments to police. I've had a lot of people I would call friends even banned from Eclipse. However it happens less because they are scrutinized on everything and bound to higher morals to even stay in the department.

On 9/9/2019 at 10:30 AM, Emir Bellic said:

also one more thing COPS should have a reason for pulling you over,if i respected all the traffic signalization and even i am wanted criminal he shouldnt be able just like that to pull me over for no reason and then find out things about me.Like i experianced the guy pulled me over for no reason and then he found out i have unpayed tickets and arrested me.At least he could roleplayed it and try to follow me to have reason to pull me over.In real life police pull over only those who break traffic rules and are wanted that means got recognized on the street by them but how would he knows if i pass by him with mask on.It breaks the xp of roleplay and it really sucks.If 4 cops come and the scene still isnt over than thats metagaming i guess because they have been aware of situation before it even happend at least shouldnt have the situation on ready unti lthe scene finishes...

• An officer can pull you over for a ton of reasons, not usually reveled and often IC. After that, the officer will need to start having reasons for next stages.
  • Detain you
  • Search you
  • Charge you
• The officer pulled you over because you had late tickets. Just like real life, your plate was ran and came up with this information.
• Repeat offenders and BOLOs are also reasons to get pulled over. Mistaken identity does actually happen ICly as well.

Sorry if you've seemed to have such a hard time with police. OOCly, play nice, communicate, don't argue and they'll do the same, the RP exists for them as well. ICly, play your character how you'd like, once it's taken OOC, stuff deteriorates quickly.

After all this, I don't feel like this is much of a server / development suggestion. @Flucifial, can we move this to general discussion?

[Flucifial]

1 hour ago, Xoza said:

Well.. seriously need to break this down.

• 90% of the time it's because what the officer is doing, is legitimate or has an IC reason.
• Officers are trained extensively and must pass training in order for them to become an officer, they are graded even in Roleplay capability.
• If an officer feels like you are a threat or threat to others or could use additional's or you have a history, they have the right to call for backup, just like you do. 
• An officer doesn't need to tell you why you are being detained. If they give you an answer it could be as non-informative as 'pending further investigation'. Once you are 'arrested' they will tell you the charges you face. Yes, you should always know your charges before your imprisonment papers are filed.

Jeez this is a mess...

• Force continuum exists for a reason, it's all, also IC.
• A good suspect interaction goes like this and depends on reaction... [ Request > Lawful Order > Taser (incapacitate?) > Gun? (Incapacitate?) ] and all depends on the crime, history and escalation.
• You are always free to /me /do anytime. Others will likely have /me /do in response though. You have 30 seconds to react which is plenty of time to do a lot.
  • Officer: /me goes to cuff the suspect /do success?
  • Citizen: /do no
  • Officer: /do why?
  • Citizen: /me kicks at the officers shin to run away. /do success?
  • One or the other agrees or both /dice?
• If you are cuffed, you shouldn't be doing anything which requires hands.

• If you want to be part of the Justice system, join the police department.
• Officers are trusted ICly and OOCly bound to be fair and just to not only citizens but players as well. True, there are some activities and interactions that could be better, but that's why IA exists and forum reporting.
• There isn't a charge for 'insulting an officer'.
• Yep, speed cameras suck. They don't exist where I live, but they do exist. What sucks more is people driving 160 through a heavily populated area and plowing through 5 cars injuring 8 people because 'they didn't load'.

• It's actually considered powergaming. Report it on the forums, this isn't only a 'cop' thing.
• Not going to say this doesn't happen, but I don't think I've really ever seen many in reputable factions (criminal included) not use /me tries something /do success?
• Still not sure about this 30 second thing you have an issue with. You have 30 seconds to reply, if you can reply sooner, you should, delaying a response, especially when you are capable is stalling RP of which you should not be doing intentionally. ICly it could be taken as resistance.

• There are plenty of admin punishments to police. I've had a lot of people I would call friends even banned from Eclipse. However it happens less because they are scrutinized on everything and bound to higher morals to even stay in the department.

• An officer can pull you over for a ton of reasons, not usually reveled and often IC. After that, the officer will need to start having reasons for next stages.
  • Detain you
  • Search you
  • Charge you
• The officer pulled you over because you had late tickets. Just like real life, your plate was ran and came up with this information.
• Repeat offenders and BOLOs are also reasons to get pulled over. Mistaken identity does actually happen ICly as well.

Sorry if you've seemed to have such a hard time with police. OOCly, play nice, communicate, don't argue and they'll do the same, the RP exists for them as well. ICly, play your character how you'd like, once it's taken OOC, stuff deteriorates quickly.

After all this, I don't feel like this is much of a server / development suggestion. @Flucifial, can we move this to general discussion?

Not an admin anymore lol