Police department update

[Requiem]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:27 PM, EnkoY said:

All that being said, I don't believe charging LEO players individually for their equipment is the right way to go either, but perhaps each faction loadout interaction could incur a debt within that faction's treasury for the value of the equipment and if not returned, the faction's treasury loses that money. If the next faction loadout interaction cost cannot be covered by the treasury's funds, then we're shit out of luck until the treasury replenishes. If a car is returned without tyres, they lose x% of the cost charged to the treasury for the spawning of the vehicle. If a carbine is not returned because the player died and it couldn't be recovered, then they lose the cost of that carbine + ammo. If somebody deploys a kevlar vest with 100 armor points and returns it with 0, then the cost of that kevlar is not returned to the treasury, etc etc and this is where we enter the realm of economic balancing and management of the assets available to players and factions on the server.

How long until the concept of charging LEO faction treasury for these things leads to criminals organizations just changing the meta to shoot the tires of every police vehicle they come across to drain the treasury and then cops don't get to respond to anything for the rest of the week? 

I don't really understand why anyone is comparing crims to LEOs for economy. LEOs earning money just goes to side projects, such as a house for them to decorate and not do much with, or a side business, or just a nice car to literally drive between off duty events and work. Money is meaningless for LEOs. LEOs join PD or SD for the RP, not to earn lots of money or financially outperform criminals. Criminals use money to fund their RP and investments. What difference does it make to a criminal if a LEO doesn't have to pay for their loadout while on duty? You act as though a LEO will pick up guns post shootout and go stash them to go hold the island lab later on themselves. 

Edited April 1 by Requiem

[EnkoY]

  

1 hour ago, Requiem said:

Money is meaningless for LEOs. LEOs join PD or SD for the RP, not to earn lots of money or financially outperform criminals. Criminals use money to fund their RP and investments. What difference does it make to a criminal if a LEO doesn't have to pay for their loadout while on duty?

Exactly, the base cost of a criminal RP interaction for a criminal is always higher than it is for a LEO player. Money doesn't matter to LEO's because they don't need it for their RP. Criminals do, yet they're the ONLY ones suffering if a criminal RP interaction has a negative outcome. Negative outcomes do not impact LEO's RP ops past that RP op. They return to base and sit there for a while until they're good to go out again. Zero financial losses suffered, not for the individual player, nor for the faction.
Once again, I do not believe the cost incurred should fall on the individual LEO player, but rather on the faction, their organization, much like it would in real life as they're tied to budgets.

My comparison is not about how much money LEO's can make. It's not about who makes more money or who's able to make more money. When I address the economic balance between LEO and criminal I'm looking at the potential costs suffered and gains made from a criminal RP interaction for a criminal with LEO's.

Look at the incident on the island from a couple days ago.
Criminals shot and killed a bunch of LEO's. Costs incurred for LEO's? Zero.
IF the situation had gone otherwise, and I'm aware it didn't but for the sake of the argument we'll take it as an option, the cost for the criminals participating would've been in the hundreds of thousands.
The only balancer in this situation for LEO is the number of people online/on duty for LEO, and they do not have a limit on faction members, unlike criminal factions.

 

1 hour ago, Requiem said:

You act as though a LEO will pick up guns post shootout and go stash them to go hold the island lab later on themselves. 

This is a straw man argument, at no point did I imply or act like that happens and for clarification, I don't think criminals should be able to loot cops either should they die in an interaction.

 

1 hour ago, Requiem said:

How long until the concept of charging LEO faction treasury for these things leads to criminals organizations just changing the meta to shoot the tires of every police vehicle they come across to drain the treasury and then cops don't get to respond to anything for the rest of the week? 

They'd be punished under DM if there's no reason for it. We have rules in place to prevent this sort of stuff. We also don't see LEO's randomly shooting out criminal's tyres just to screw them over financially.

The system would obviously require complex and extensive balancing all along the way and I'm sure there are caveats.

[Requiem]

13 minutes ago, EnkoY said:

  

Exactly, the base cost of a criminal RP interaction for a criminal is always higher than it is for a LEO player. Money doesn't matter to LEO's because they don't need it for their RP. Criminals do, yet they're the ONLY ones suffering if a criminal RP interaction has a negative outcome. Negative outcomes do not impact LEO's RP ops past that RP op. They return to base and sit there for a while until they're good to go out again. Zero financial losses suffered, not for the individual player, nor for the faction.
Once again, I do not believe the cost incurred should fall on the individual LEO player, but rather on the faction, their organization, much like it would in real life as they're tied to budgets.

My comparison is not about how much money LEO's can make. It's not about who makes more money or who's able to make more money. When I address the economic balance between LEO and criminal I'm looking at the potential costs suffered and gains made from a criminal RP interaction for a criminal with LEO's.

Look at the incident on the island from a couple days ago.
Criminals shot and killed a bunch of LEO's. Costs incurred for LEO's? Zero.
IF the situation had gone otherwise, and I'm aware it didn't but for the sake of the argument we'll take it as an option, the cost for the criminals participating would've been in the hundreds of thousands.
The only balancer in this situation for LEO is the number of people online/on duty for LEO, and they do not have a limit on faction members, unlike criminal factions.

I am missing the point of the suggestions or discussion here. It seems to me that if the identified problem for criminals is the money gained and/or lost in interactions, why would the solution be to make another faction lose money as well. I fail to see how that solves the issue(s) noted. Fix the criminal economy which is being identified as the source of the problem. I don't see how LEOs losing something financially has any relevancy to the problem you are identifying. 

Also, both criminals and LEOs alike came out of the several massive shootout situations we had earlier this week saying its been the most fun they have had in awhile, regardless of who lost and who won. We should be placing less focus on the W's and the details of finances and more focus on the quality RP and just having fun honestly. Some situations in RP are going to be less fun than others, sure, but that's just how it goes. We can't all win 100% of the time. But how we take the wins and losses is up to each person individually. There can be a lot of interesting RP opportunities that can come from these interactions and even losses at times as a result of the rebuild after said loss.