EnkoY

I think adding features to the server is always a good idea and will usually have players' support. The crucial part is implementing them in a balanced way that keeps them fun without impacting play too much in a negative sense, like you've mentioned. Most of these seem interesting and would generate positive RP ops in my opinion. Some seem gimmicky and wouldn't last very long, I believe, like the soap shop. My initial thoughts on the sickness was "Hell no", but, honestly, the circumstances can be controlled and it offers some interesting RP ops and could potentially throw some wrenches in RP. +1 for bio-engineered man-flu that affects the entire LSPD by happenstance. The majority are great ideas and implementation would almost certainly benefit the community!

Date and time (provide timezone): 26AUG24 15PM Character name: Gunnar_Klokberg Does this issue appear again after full game restart?: Yes How many times did this issue apear for you?: So far only with one NPC Issue/bug you are reporting: NPC remains affiliated even after all influence points have decayed. Additionally, hourly decay was up to 4 points per hour for that specific NPC, even though we were only overexpanded by 2 Turfs at Tier 2. (Core + This NPC) The affiliation and added decay was removed once we sold a single wheel to the mechanic NPC Expected behavior: NPC affiliation should stop once Influence drops below a certain point and not remain when influence is at 0 Evidence (MUST either photo or video) , notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Sell product to NPC, allow for the influence to decay. Vehicle license plate number*: n/a

Date and time (provide timezone): Always Character name: All Does this issue appear again after full game restart?: Yes How many times did this issue apear for you?: 100+ Issue/bug you are reporting: Faction-spawned vehicles detach from their unit after being placed on a flatbed. The vehicle does not re-attach to the unit after untowing, nor can it be claimed with /cruiser. The vehicle needs to be driven back to the parking location to be /delcruiser'd. Expected behavior: Vehicle should not detach from unit upon flatbedding, or should re-attach to unit after flatbedding, or should be able to be claimed with /cruiser after flatbedding. Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Create unit, spawn faction vehicle, have it put on a flatbed. Vehicle license plate number*: All

Table of Contents Old Faction Thread

Date and time (provide timezone): Always Character name: All Issue/bug you are reporting: You are able to have phonecalls with the phone off. When initiating a phonecall, turn off your phone with /phone. The recipient of the call continues to be called by the phone that was just turned off and can answer the call, establishing an active phonecall even though the caller has their phone turned off. When turning the caller's phone back on, there is no active call shown on the phone. Expected behavior: The initiated call should be terminated as soon as the phone is turned off with /phone. Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Make a phonecall, turn phone off with /phone, receiver can answer and establish an active call with the caller whose phone is turned off. Vehicle license plate number*: n/a

Exactly, the base cost of a criminal RP interaction for a criminal is always higher than it is for a LEO player. Money doesn't matter to LEO's because they don't need it for their RP. Criminals do, yet they're the ONLY ones suffering if a criminal RP interaction has a negative outcome. Negative outcomes do not impact LEO's RP ops past that RP op. They return to base and sit there for a while until they're good to go out again. Zero financial losses suffered, not for the individual player, nor for the faction. Once again, I do not believe the cost incurred should fall on the individual LEO player, but rather on the faction, their organization, much like it would in real life as they're tied to budgets. My comparison is not about how much money LEO's can make. It's not about who makes more money or who's able to make more money. When I address the economic balance between LEO and criminal I'm looking at the potential costs suffered and gains made from a criminal RP interaction for a criminal with LEO's. Look at the incident on the island from a couple days ago. Criminals shot and killed a bunch of LEO's. Costs incurred for LEO's? Zero. IF the situation had gone otherwise, and I'm aware it didn't but for the sake of the argument we'll take it as an option, the cost for the criminals participating would've been in the hundreds of thousands. The only balancer in this situation for LEO is the number of people online/on duty for LEO, and they do not have a limit on faction members, unlike criminal factions. This is a straw man argument, at no point did I imply or act like that happens and for clarification, I don't think criminals should be able to loot cops either should they die in an interaction. They'd be punished under DM if there's no reason for it. We have rules in place to prevent this sort of stuff. We also don't see LEO's randomly shooting out criminal's tyres just to screw them over financially. The system would obviously require complex and extensive balancing all along the way and I'm sure there are caveats.

This is where we find common ground, however: Most of the numbers you provided here are just wrong, .50's do not import at those prices and even if they were right, you're covering about 2% of criminal players who actually have access to equipment at those prices. The other 98% have to pay much, much more, making your argument just completely pointless in the context of this topic. And even if they can get it for 50k, a LEO player gets it for free and only needs to spit out some lines of RP and potentially drive back and forth between the scene and mrpd to 'restock'. You're comparing apples and oranges and it's hypocritical to try and argue a point like this. It doesn't matter how much it costs for a criminal player, the fact of the matter remains that the LEO players pays literally zero for the same equipment in the same RP interaction. You're putting words in my mouth that I never said. Furthermore, you are once again basing your argument on data that represents a small fraction of the criminal playerbase and are creating a straw man argument by saying criminals can make tons of money by holing themselves up inside a lab and cooking endless batches of drugs. It's entirely besides the point of this argument. Not to mention that nobody wants to do that. It's the one thing we agree upon, probably, it's dogshit RP quality and a terrible way to spend your evening in terms of RP. You are trying to say that criminal groups should have 5 guys in full 100 AP armor and class 2 firearms to chop a car that'll net them 15-30k, just to cover all their bases and prepare for the off chance that an entire SWAT team thunders down on them with parachutes jumping out of a heli. Surely you understand how bizarre that sounds? You are essentially saying that anyone who doesn't shell out 50k+ per person participating in a single car chop that'll net a total of 15-30k between all participants is suffering from a "skill issue". Do you have any idea how ridiculously out of touch that sounds? If you're saying that the entire LEO structure, loadout and measure of force is focused on the top tier gangs who have direct access to imports and pay peanuts for their guns, then you're essentially admitting that EVERY other interaction between LEO and anyone outside of those 2% is entirely unbalanced, because LEO will respond with the maximum possible force available to them, regardless of the target. Their response does not care whether you're holding a .50 or an MG, they will respond to the biggest possible threat they can imagine and with every possible sliver of force they can free up and the financial cost incurred is literally zero. That's imbalance right there. All that being said, I don't believe charging LEO players individually for their equipment is the right way to go either, but perhaps each faction loadout interaction could incur a debt within that faction's treasury for the value of the equipment and if not returned, the faction's treasury loses that money. If the next faction loadout interaction cost cannot be covered by the treasury's funds, then we're shit out of luck until the treasury replenishes. If a car is returned without tyres, they lose x% of the cost charged to the treasury for the spawning of the vehicle. If a carbine is not returned because the player died and it couldn't be recovered, then they lose the cost of that carbine + ammo. If somebody deploys a kevlar vest with 100 armor points and returns it with 0, then the cost of that kevlar is not returned to the treasury, etc etc and this is where we enter the realm of economic balancing and management of the assets available to players and factions on the server.

I think a lot of these points can be traced back to economic balance. The largest issue that our server is facing, in my opinion, is a seemingly complete lack of economic management. Without wanting to make this a "crim vs leo" response, when you draw the line under any crim vs pd interaction, there is a loser and a winner. The average criminal player runs around with a .50, potentially silenced and maybe a knife. Let's call it 10k. The average LEO player runs around with a .50, not worth anything because they can't lose it. If at the end of the interaction, let's call it an hour long for ease of argumentation, the Criminal player should die, they've lost 10k for the gun and whatever else they had on them. Those are the Direct Consequence Costs, that's what they lose immediately. Secondary Costs are that, in order to replace that firearm, they have to find somebody who's selling a new gun, run the risk, albeit minimal, of getting caught and arrested, then pay the dollars and hopefully not get robbed for the dollars and the gun. At this point, the criminal player is down 20k and let's call it around 2 hours, 1 for the interaction, 1 for sourcing a new firearm. Now, obviously no criminal player is obligated to run around with a .50, so for argument's sake, we'll ignore the cost of the .50 and just say that they "lost" 1 hour of their time. The LEO player, in the event they should win the interaction, gain the salary for 1 hour of the interaction and another 30 minutes for cleanup and paperwork. Let's say they make 6k per hour, that means they're up 9k of untaxed salary. If the Criminal player would not die but get arrested, they suffer the losses posted above, with increased "time loss" and fines. Sure, they can go to prison and make money there, but it's not great and frankly boring. Let's say financially they break-even on the fines and lost equipment by going to prison. So it's a zero-gain result at the end of it, from a financial perspective. If the LEO player loses the interaction, they lose nothing. They still get their salary, they'll still be able to get fresh equipment, fully locked and loaded by clicking a couple times and typing out some lines of RP. Zero costs incurred, barring some potential losses of personal possessions if they have any on them at the time of their death. The criminal gains nothing from this interaction. In fact, you could say they lose because they lost time that they could've potentially spent on something more productive. The above is all nice and dandy if the criminal players seek out interactions with PD, ie "fuck around and find out", but unfortunately that's not always the case. Sometimes, criminal players are just going about their business and they get "harassed" by LEO, which makes total sense from an IC perspective, but not from an OOC perspective. The IC economic balance of any criminal and LEO interaction is completely out of whack. It's cool to argue that we should all just play for the RP and to enjoy our time the best way we can, but the argument becomes completely moot when you look at it from an opportunity cost perspective and equalize the quality of the RP across the board within a specific interaction and only one side also gains in-game currency and another either loses in-game currency or experiences a zero-gain status. You can have a top of the line, amazing, never-seen-before awesome RP interaction between a criminal and a LEO player and the criminal will always come out worse. You could argue that "it's a choice to play criminal on the server and a consequence that comes with that RP", and, yes, I agree, but we also need to understand that if the consequences suck balls, nobody will want to play criminal RP anymore and we'll just have a legal-only server and we'll be at the end of our platform's life within a year, maybe months. We're paying out millions in bonuses 3-4 times per year to any members of legal factions. Houses and cars cost the same, regardless of the playstyle you've chosen for your character. But everything sure is more affordable if you're a non-criminal player. There's a reason why a large chunk of the players who like the combat/shootout RP have LEO alts or even mains and it's because the combat there is the same, but it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg every time you shoot a bullet. If we want the server to be healthy and have both sides of the law be in balance, the economy needs to be managed much better, or, frankly, it just needs to be managed because right now it really feels like we're just willy-nilly pumping cash into the economy without thinking twice about the direct consequences to our playerbase. When I'm playing with about 5 of my friends, having fun chopping a car at Chilliad camp, as a new unknown gang with no violent track record that would warrant any type of active suppression, that's going to net each of us about 3k if we're lucky and then get absolutely dunked on by a gaggle of SWAT LEO players who literally fall out of the sky after parachuting out of a helicopter, fully decked out with carbines and kevlar, arresting all of us, charging us for things that cost money in fines, impounding our vehicles, confiscating our equipment and sending us to DOC for an hour, then I frankly just want to log out and forget about the server for a week because I just can't be bothered anymore at that point and that quite sums it up for me in terms of balance. I understand there are consequences to the play-style, but if we have to risk so much to gain so little, then we're just not going to bother anymore in the future and that's not a good thing for the server or our community.

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