Cops Camping Banks

[checkky]

Hello Eclipse Community!

As for most players who engage in criminal roleplay on this server, they may be aware of the current situation that exists between Criminals and PD/SD. Due to the decline of criminal roleplay, there's not much roleplay for cops to engage in. However, recently because of this decline, criminal factions attempting to conduct banks has been much more tedious. PD/SD are trying to find more roleplay to engage in, and since there's not as much action on the server as there was, PD/SD tend to camp banks now. Going AFK/Idling nearby banks, trying to be the first responder to certain situations. However, them doing so, is almost preventing roleplay to happen in the first place. It's very unrealistic for cops in-real-life to be camping banks waiting for something to occur, whilst still having the duties to conduct as a PD/SD player. 

Correlations:

• Currently it's NRP for cops to camp entrances of labs
• Currently it's NRP for cops to camp near turfs

The same should be applied to banks, as it's simply preventing roleplay to happen in the first place just like turfs and labs.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Checkky

[Harley]

Although I understand police get just as bored as crims recently, often finding themselves tabbed out in a speed trap, but positioning themselves so close to a bank to prevent criminals from doing the very limited RP that is available to them via script does not help with the "content drought" ECRP is currently going through.

I disagree that a server rule should be put in place to punish Police that position too close to a bank, but possibly a faction rule be put in place, one that prevents LEO players from a "Play-To-Win" approach to the server. Often you'll find LEO players attempting to be the "Main Character" in any scenario. Whether it's being the first in a pursuit line, or a first responder to a bank, it's something I see every time I'm on duty, and I personally think it needs to stop. Let's not punish more players and reduce our fragile playerbase more, but let's promote better RP from our biggest factions on the server.

[XeV]

My favorite is when I enter to check timers or use an atm near it, they will circle that bank 10+ times cause someone walked inside, almost Metagamey knowing that scriptly I cannot use these bank to withdraw or deposit cash so I can ONLY be checking timers.

Cannot try to get the cop near the bank to chase you away from it as that NRP cop baiting, only solution we actually have is to sit there and wait for them to leave and use the small window to hit it or just call it off and try again another day cause this cop has been ((Tabbed out)) for 15 minutes.

I can see the "Ic issues" already along the lines of "well there is no IC protocol that say anything of the sort" seems to be the common response to most complaints, but this is just about having shit to do and this limits a fun and rewarding activity people can do and has a 0% Success rate nowadays due to the aforementioned complaint.

Is there much RP to be had at banks from a PD or SD side, VERY little unless its a hostage bank, but banks the one thing that is fun to plan out and make routes and plans and give people certain jobs and execute it.

[Silent]

11 minutes ago, XeV said:

Cannot try to get the cop near the bank to chase you away from it as that NRP cop baiting, only solution we actually have is to sit there and wait for them to leave and use the small window to hit it or just call it off and try again another day cause this cop has been ((Tabbed out)) for 15 minutes.

 

You are able to bait a pursuit if you are wanting to do a bank. Below is the bullet point from the NON-RP rule in general rules.

• Baiting Government Services without proper IC motive. (For example, bank robbers have IC motive to bait police if they want to get their attention away from the bank they are wanting to rob).
  In relation to the topic, I believe there should be an IC or OOC protocol for LEO's to camp banks. There should be sufficient reasoning, like an active trace on a wanted individual with an affiliation, or intel of a gang about to hit a bank. By no means am I saying "cops can camp banks if there's a reason". Instead, one or two units should alternate in patrolling the area, as if there is a failed bank attempt say in the city, other banks are going to be on high alert, so would make sense for some form of police presence patrolling the area.
  Cops however, should not be able to sit outside a bank ((Tabbed Out)) doing paperwork or doing whatever else they may be doing, as like mentioned above, restricts our already demotivated criminal player base. 

[DoTo]

I’m confused by this suggestion, just as I was the last time this got suggested, except that the fact that this comes from an SD member confuses me even more.

I truly wonder where the notion that anyone in SD/PD “camps” banks in the way that is suggested here comes from. 
I’m an advocate for criminal roleplay wherever I can, but I have not once seen this occur. 
 

What undoubtedly occurs is increased presence at the bank when there is a reason for it, i.e. gang members hanging around a bank, a large presence of the typical meta vehicles used for robbing a bank, obvious scouting outside banks. When this occurs, they are monitored, as they should be. 
The notion to put in some form of artificial regulation on what is essentially reactive police work is utterly ridiculous to me, and if you have an issue with how SD operates, perhaps you should’ve reached out to leaders in the faction first and inquired about your concerns before making a forum thread that suggests that this is regular behaviour and that all that LEOs do is sit and watch banks for hours on end. No one wants to do that because it’s just not fun. 
 

Is the expectation for LEOs to go as far away from banks as possible when there are clear signs that a gang intends to rob a bank so you can rob it in peace? 
At least 80% of bank robberies we see are successful, so what’s the point?

[ShawnsBeard]

21 minutes ago, DoTo said:

I’m confused by this suggestion, just as I was the last time this got suggested, except that the fact that this comes from an SD member confuses me even more.

I truly wonder where the notion that anyone in SD/PD “camps” banks in the way that is suggested here comes from. 
I’m an advocate for criminal roleplay wherever I can, but I have not once seen this occur. 
 

What undoubtedly occurs is increased presence at the bank when there is a reason for it, i.e. gang members hanging around a bank, a large presence of the typical meta vehicles used for robbing a bank, obvious scouting outside banks. When this occurs, they are monitored, as they should be. 
The notion to put in some form of artificial regulation on what is essentially reactive police work is utterly ridiculous to me, and if you have an issue with how SD operates, perhaps you should’ve reached out to leaders in the faction first and inquired about your concerns before making a forum thread that suggests that this is regular behaviour and that all that LEOs do is sit and watch banks for hours on end. No one wants to do that because it’s just not fun. 
 

Is the expectation for LEOs to go as far away from banks as possible when there are clear signs that a gang intends to rob a bank so you can rob it in peace? 
At least 80% of bank robberies we see are successful, so what’s the point?

Hate to break it to you, but you are not some vast omnipotent overseer that has 100% knowledge on everything that happens within a faction just because you are a part of it.  I will say, the issue is definitely more prevalent with the PD faction, as I have personally seen units camping outside of primarily the life invader bank very often.  On multiple occasions I have seen units set up directly in the parking garage that is across the street, overseeing the bank directly.  Just because officers don't state on their PD/SD frequency that they are going to "camp a bank" does not mean that is not happening.

I personally think that the primary problem is that the robbable banks have no use besides being hit for heists.  It is of my opinion that they should all be functional as a limitless ATM, much like the 2 main banks on the server.  This way, the cops are not instantly sussed out any time a person enters a bank to check if it is open and available to rob.  Another issue is there are far too many PD/SD units for the size the server has become, but that is a much larger problem to be discussed.

[checkky]

2 hours ago, DoTo said:

What undoubtedly occurs is increased presence at the bank when there is a reason for it, i.e. gang members hanging around a bank, a large presence of the typical meta vehicles used for robbing a bank, obvious scouting outside banks. When this occurs, they are monitored, as they should be. 

 

2 hours ago, DoTo said:

Is the expectation for LEOs to go as far away from banks as possible when there are clear signs that a gang intends to rob a bank so you can rob it in peace? 

 

Of coarse, if the proper escalation and IC motive is observed from a third party (such as a convoy of "meta" bikes), without a doubt this absolutely makes it redeemable to pursue an investigation as such. 

However...

There are certain players that choose to skip any kind of observable escalation, and simply choose to park outside banks that are able to be robbed without any motive. I would very much have to agree with @ShawnsBeard that this issue is much more prevalent to PD than SD, as clearly there's only one bank on SD's jurisdiction and three in PD's jurisdiction. As I said above, this simply prevents RP to happen in the first place, and overall is demotivating. And just to be clear, I am not by any means slandering the amazing RP standards that PD/SD promote. I'm making this suggestion to just advocate an ongoing issue that's been witnessed by the current criminal factions for the past few months, due to the decline of criminal activity on the server. 

 

2 hours ago, DoTo said:

except that the fact that this comes from an SD member confuses me even more.

 

With all due respect, I really do not see how this relevant to this suggestion at all. All because I'm part of a faction on another character that may be at fault to a slight issue I'm trying to advocate about, doesn't mean I'm not able to openly speak upon them here. 

 

2 hours ago, DoTo said:

At least 80% of bank robberies we see are successful, so what’s the point?

 

To be honest, I really can't understand how you're acquiring such an untrue number of 80%. Most of the time this isn't including a less than 25% success rate (meaning actually acquiring packed cash) without some kind of causalities such as, getting arrested or even killed. A third of the time, cops are in the area and the bank gets called off. Another third of the time due to desync or human error (which is completely understandable), the aiming aspect of the bank doesn't even sync correctly. On the attempts that everything is even done right, most of the time there is an officer/deputy ten seconds away ready to respond, due to the common patrols on the outskirts of banks or even being a block or two away from the bank.

 

2 hours ago, DoTo said:

reactive police work

 

This really isn't reactive at all. You can really call it reactive, for when you examine these "meta" bikes convoying around a bank. However, most of the time it's more like preventative police work, as the only use for banks at the moment on the server are to be robbed. The second any kind of bikes are spotted, or anyone (civilian or crim) really, it's clear that patrols then start to be conducted in that area. However, (this is for another suggestion) applying another use for the current banks would be ideal. Such as making Paleto and LS Bank robbable, since people currently use it for actual bank purposes. Or even making the current robbable banks granted the same permissions that Paleto and LS bank have to players, such as acquiring cash and getting paychecks.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Checkky

[Osborn]

Cops camping banks randomly should not be happening, and if it is, reach out to their faction command and/or Legal Factions Management. If it becomes an issue, they can implement OOC regulations similar to that of drug labs, which was implemented by faction leaderships themselves. 

Responding to In Character events and proactively preventing a bank robbery is not "camping" a bank. If let's say, a police officer sees gang-affiliated lookouts setting up, that's a cause for them to increase their activity at a bank, or if they perhaps have received information In Character that a bank robbery may occur. 

There are near daily bank robberies where the majority of them are 'successful', if cops camping banks was an issue, a lot more robberies wouldn't happen. And if cops are at a bank for the aforementioned reasons, there a ways to get them away from the said location which wouldn't be held to the cop-baiting rule (as it would have a proper IC reason). 

I'm going to close this with that ^ Please inquire with Legal Faction Management and/or Faction Command if you believe there are officers/deputies that deliberately, for absolutely no reason at all, sit outside a bank. 

(Any suggestions about how banks work or how they should work, should go into their own suggestions).