Improvement to current DM rules

[dvdcostin06]

The current DM rules are very unrealistic and situational, they do not allow proper realism for killing another player.

 

 

The current Deathmatching rules state the following: "Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police."

The definition of Homicide (according to Wikipedia) : "Homicide occurs when a person kills another person. A Homicide requires only a volitional act or omission that causes the death of another, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm. Homicides can be divided into many overlapping legal categories, including murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, assassination, killing in war (either following the laws of war or as a war crime), euthanasia, and capital punishment, depending on the circumstances of the death. These different types of homicides are often treated very, differently in human societies ; some are considered crimes, while others are permitted or even ordered by the legal system."

 

 

I will not address every type of homicide in this forum post, but just enough so that my point is clear.

I believe that many types of homicide cannot be committed without breaking the current DM-ing rules.

 

 

 

I will not address every type of homicide in this forum post, but just enough so that my point is clear.

I believe that many types of homicide cannot be committed without breaking the current DM-ing rules.

What do I mean by this? Lets take for example Assassination

 

Assassination summarized is the murder of a prominent or important person (such as a politician, member of royal family, etc.).

With the current rules that are in place assassinating someone is not compliant with the deathmatching rules.

This leads to so many lost RP opportunities, such as the head of state being assassinated and everyone panicking

 

 

 

Another type of homicide is murder: Every murder has a motive behind it which can be condensed into four "Ls": Lust, Love, Loathing and Loot.

Examples: Lust: A lover kills a rival for his/her object of desire

Love: The mercy killing of a terminally ill person to spare them pain

Loathing: Lethal hate towards one person or a

group of people.

Loot: Killing a family member for financial gain through inheritance/ insurance.

As it currently stands murder is also out of the question. I believe that by not allowing more types of homicide on the server, that we are limiting the possibilities for potential roleplay.

 

 

 

A problem that could arise from this is people killing others without proper reason and calling it a murder.

 

My solution for this is to add exceptions to the current rule such as:

 

 

- Planning out and committing a murder (that requires a strong motive such as Loathing)

- Planning out and committing an assassination (that requires for e.x a political agenda)

 

-(further suggestions can be made)

 

[Commander783]

Requestable assassinations / murder were once in the server and take a guess why it was taken away?

Edited September 23, 2022 by Commander783

[dvdcostin06]

Because people had enough of being killed over and over because of the shit they kept on doing?

 

If someone is screwing people over, making enemies left and right they should be able to be killed. 

[Buggs]

I think it's time for ECRP rules to start gaining a little bit of maturity. I think this is a step in the right direction as it allows for greater types of RP, I don't think the OP wants it to be a killing fest all the time, but to give the community a chance to commit murder without having to somehow "create escalation" (which is completely in the eyes of the beholder) by way of letting the person know they're being targeted.

It makes almost no sense to let the person know they're being hunted IRL, but I find as I read over DM reports again and again I see staff saying things like "leave a threatening note"/ "text them with threatening text" as a way to continue escalation... In what world, do you want to let the person you are hunting know you're hunting them?

Not just that, but a new definitely of the DM rule might allow for people to KILL SOMEONE WHO IS TESTIFYING AGAINST THEM as this is literally the same as A REPORT TO THE POLICE as it could carry the same weight and should not need more "escalation" than that. There's a reason why witness protection exists IRL...

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Olivia Can

[Commander783]

2 hours ago, Olivia Can said:

I think it's time for ECRP rules to start gaining a little bit of maturity. I think this is a step in the right direction as it allows for greater types of RP, I don't think the OP wants it to be a killing fest all the time, but to give the community a chance to commit murder without having to somehow "create escalation" (which is completely in the eyes of the beholder) by way of letting the person know they're being targeted.

It makes almost no sense to let the person know they're being hunted IRL, but I find as I read over DM reports again and again I see staff saying things like "leave a threatening note"/ "text them with threatening text" as a way to continue escalation... In what world, do you want to let the person you are hunting know you're hunting them?

Not just that, but a new definitely of the DM rule might allow for people to KILL SOMEONE WHO IS TESTIFYING AGAINST THEM as this is literally the same as A REPORT TO THE POLICE as it could carry the same weight and should not need more "escalation" than that. There's a reason why witness protection exists IRL...

 

Humans don't act like animals to other humans. They usually want something from you and they will tell you what they want and not just "hunt you down", because we only have one precious life normally.

At least that's how it usually goes down in the western world (and GTA is always based there).

But reading, what you have read, just makes me believe, that people who usually play criminals, have an unrealistic mindset to begin with and see it more like a game, than actually wishing to roleplay and from my long term experience, that's how it usually goes.

Problem is, that many think they are serial killers and everyone who calls the cops on them, are just instant free kills apparently and is not really, what roleplay is all about.

People are more afraid of prison sentences and want NLR to happen, so that you forget and don't remember them, so that they just can keep playing and your precious life does mean little to them. Although it should be the complete opposite, since you leave a lot of traces for murdering someone, but that's not how it usually goes in-game.

Speaking as a long term civilian.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Commander783

[Buggs]

8 hours ago, Commander783 said:

But reading, what you have read, just makes me believe, that people who usually play criminals, have an unrealistic mindset to begin with and see it more like a game, than actually wishing to roleplay and from my long term experience, that's how it usually goes.

I am guessing you're assuming I play a criminal then? I do not. I stay legal on my characters and only dabble here and there into illegal roleplay. Irregardless, you do not know me or my characters that I play, so please do not judge or assume.
 

8 hours ago, Commander783 said:

Humans don't act like animals to other humans. They usually want something from you and they will tell you what they want and not just "hunt you down", because we only have one precious life normally.

Your whole post is based off this one sentence, which based off of my IRL experiences is just not true. You need to understand that people have different life experiences and that there are a LOT of people IRL who treat other people as if they're disposable.
 

8 hours ago, Commander783 said:

 Although it should be the complete opposite, since you leave a lot of traces for murdering someone, but that's not how it usually goes in-game.

You don't always "leave a lot of traces for murdering someone" do you realise there are thousands of cold cases for murder that go unsolved in the "Western World" each year? And that only around 60% of them are solved? That means that each time someone kills someone they have about a 50% chance to be caught... IF the police are notified.
 

8 hours ago, Commander783 said:

People are more afraid of prison sentences and want NLR to happen, so that you forget and don't remember them, so that they just can keep playing and your precious life does mean little to them.

This is an overall server issue where people abuse NLR. It should not apply to this as we're talking about a change in the DM ruling. I also believe this goes both ways in that LEO's have to value criminals/injured lives as much as they value their own, but they don't. Criminals also need to stop stalling RP just to avoid going to jail and paying the fees. However, I don't think that's ever going to really stop as we are all humans behind the screen and none of us are perfect.
 

8 hours ago, Commander783 said:

Problem is, that many think they are serial killers and everyone who calls the cops on them, are just instant free kills apparently and is not really, what roleplay is all about.

I have never seen this "serial killer" mentality, but I do think the whole "you snitch to cops, you die" is a bit crazy as legal citizens don't have a gang to turn to for protection if they call cops. They're just on their own and typically LEO's aren't willing to stick around to protect you when they could be doing something more fun.

Your response is sweet in that you clearly try to see the best in people IRL.

However I think it would be fun to see something like a "spree killer" or a "serial killer" appear in ECRP. The LEO investigation RP would be so cool, and I'm sure the criminal would have fun as well. This requires more in depth RP on BOTH sides of the fence. LEO's need to care when they get a call about a dead body and not just throw it out. Actually looking around and trying to investigate LIKE IT WAS SOMEONES PRECIOUS LIFE THAT WAS JUST TAKEN. However, that is not the case as most times when my characters or someone close to them calls 911 to report a dead body or something of that nature, they just tell you to call the corner and drive away.

This is a server issue in that no one views dying as that big of a deal. ON. BOTH. SIDES. LEGAL. AND. ILLEGAL. No one views dead bodies on the ground as an issue. Sometimes people will just leave them there to sit and ignore it.

As someone who loves civilian roleplay and has done that for most of my time on ECRP, this is how I feel. (since apparently I have to state what I RP)

[Purely]

Hello!

As someone who's actively done a realistic and successful Serial Killer RP, I can say it does need a LOT of work with DM rights as everyone is treated the same, all under one boring interpretation of the rules and thrown under the same blanket.

I think that if someone is wanting to have a character be a 'Serial Killer' it should require them to create a fully understandable situation as to why. A character story is a great place to do this.

With my RP, I had a small group of people who I reached out to OOCly and ask for consent to do the RP, as I knew under circumstances it would be considered DM, yes it did take the fun out of the 'surprise' (Although they didn't know when/how it would happen .), but it did ensure that the people I was RPing with ENJOYED themselves, which is definitely the aim of RP.

As @Olivia Can mentioned, people don't just 'care' about dead people. So unfortunately you have to go that extra mile with making YOUR body significant, the introduction of the /fdo might actually allow someone some interesting RP opportunities. My way was a 'Call and Signature' for PD to find. This opens LEOs to engage in RP and not just shut it down. Which I've been told was a nice change of pace as oppose to collecting fingerprints on bullet casings, or tracing phones.

 

To @dvdcostin06, due to people's interpretation of the rules, every type of 'killer' will constantly be blocked. Perhaps a compromise of an Alt RP request form SA+, if you're willing to wait the time it takes for approval, before conducting that kind of RP. 

 

In a short summary, if someone wants to be a serial killer under the current DM rules, make sure everyone involved is enjoying themselves, even if it's them whose under your crosshair. If someone has fun and enjoyable RP they probably won't report you. Just be aware that even if they do consent OOCly they may still report you if they lose things they don't want to, it's just how it is #grind... 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Purely

[Harveyyy]

I agree with everything @Purely just said. 

[Buggs]

2 hours ago, Purely said:

With my RP, I had a small group of people who I reached out to OOCly and ask for consent to do the RP, as I knew under circumstances it would be considered DM, yes it did take the fun out of the 'surprise' (Although they didn't know when/how it would happen .), but it did ensure that the people I was RPing with ENJOYED themselves, which is definitely the aim of RP.

I would agree with this wholeheartedly, however there have been multiple times where admins have stopped situations that all people have agreed to OOCly and are enjoying themselves because "you cannot agree to have your character be DM'd". People have received warnings and punishments for this.

For instance, Chatty the clown used to kidnap people and take him to his fun house. The understanding OOCly for all involved was that you may die when you go there, but the RP that was had was more than worth it. However, we still had Aldarine pop up and tell people they could not be there or give consent to be DM'd as it breaks the FRP rule.

This is just one example of this happening, although it has happened more than once.

I don't know how you were able to do it when you were RPing as a serial killer, as I feel it would fall under the same thing as "you cannot agree to get DM'd". However, that's another problem entirely as all admins do not treat everyone equally. Not that like there aren't mostly great admins, just that we are human and favour our friends over those we have no personal connection to.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Olivia Can
Just wanted to clairfy that like the average admin for ECRP is awesome.

[Herbo]

Hello ! 

I'd just like to say I agree with everything Purely said, I also agree with a lot of the points the original creator said and believe the DM rule should be relooked at and updated. That's all.