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Charlotte Valmont

Police are overpowered and unrealistic

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I have been in the server now for about a month and donated over $300.00 (I say that so it's clear that I take the server seriously). I have played everyday since my application was accepted, usually for hours. What I have become incredibly frustrated by, to the extent that I am preparing to leave the server entirely, is the police and how overpowered and unrealistic they are. Now before someone comments that this is an ICly issue or to report my concerns to IA, my suggestion is specifically related to how the server should implement changes to ensure that police are required to behave in ways that are more realistic generally and to provide civilians and criminals dealing with the police more power - just like real life. Below I will list the issues I have observed and/or experienced and the ways I feel the server could amend these issues. Please share any other experiences and solutions you can think of. 

 

1. Issue: police making arrests without questioning suspects when no realistic RP evidence is present

This has happened many times in my experience. The police arrest you, do their /do, put you in the car, and then just tell each other what to charge you with. They almost never answer questions and pretend evidence of your guilt exist when it doesn't. This degrades the RP experience and makes players, particularly those just starting not want to play. It essentially makes police officers the judge, the jury, and the executioner in every single interaction. Instead of enjoying opportunities to play in the dark underbellies of the crime world, many people I know have given up and now just fish until they are so bored they stop playing. 

Solution: Police must state in text what crime they suspect you of before they search you but after they've looked at your ID. Once they've stated the reason they have to provide the suspect an opportunity to provide an explanation/rebuttal/defense at which point the police must state in chat what evidence they have to detain the suspect. Evidence should be concrete and plausible in real life (i.e., eye witness, fingerprints, video evidence). Not for example: driving into a chop shop where multiple people are, the car chops within seconds of their arrival, and they arrest everyone. There is no plausible evidence in this scenario. The car is gone and therefor cannot be fingerprinted, no one has confessed, no one has provided an eyewitness statement, or video. In cases such as these, people should be let go until such time that the server implements a judicial system with lawyers and judges.  

* I have heard that there are potential plans to develop a judicial system at some point. In the meantime, as I am sure that is a big project, could it not be possible to create a job for those of us extremely interested in becoming lawyers whereby we can be called during a police/suspect dispute over evidence/arrests and make a third-party decision on whether the grounds for arrest are fair and reasonable - both police and suspects could report to IA if they feel the lawyer is being unfair but this still provides a level of fairness to these interactions that I think is often missed. 

 

2. Issue: Police ignoring areas of their role that are less exciting or fun just so they can participate in RP that is exciting and fun (or just generally do something else)

Another issue I have run across so frequently in my short time on the server that seems to be running rampant. This is also backed up by the many conversations I have had with others who feel the same. For example, you are at the fish drop-off, another player steals your crate of fish, you flag down a cop, and they respond by telling you to file a report online. At this point, the suspect has only had 30 seconds to escape so could be easily caught but the police (who doesn't have their lights on responding to an emergency) isn't interested in wasting their time. Another example, you're being chased by masked gang members trying to kill you, you flag down a police officer on the street and explain that you need their help, they direct you to go to the police station, you explain you cant because of NCZ rules, you point out the people following you, cops doesn't want to take the time to investigate your claims or approach the people following you, and just tell you to go wait in a well-populated area. 

Solution: I believe it should be mandatory for the police to follow-up with every complaint made by a person on the server - especially those made in the midst of RP scenario where suspects and evidence can be preserved. Unless there is a very serious crime being committed in the city (i.e., hostage situation) and all police are required at the scene, there shouldn't be any excuse for police not to respond to these requests for help. In situations where the police are unable to help and do require you file a report online, they must state in text that they are responding to a serious incident and provide their badge number. When the player files the report online, they provide this information and the investigating police officer must check that the responding officer did in fact have a serious incident the made it not possible for them to deal with the complaint being made.  

 

3. Police not returning possessions to people who have been jailed/imprisoned 

My understanding is that there is already some policy regarding this but it clearly doesn't work. In every single arrest I have had where I have been placed in jail or prison, I have only received my belongings back once. I know this is also the same for my friends. After paying fines/fees and having your criminal possessions taken, it is infuriating having your fishing rod, fish, food, water, radios, GPS, bags, clothing etc. taken from you and never returned. For those of us who have just started and barely have money or means to make money, this sends us straight back to square one. It also makes me question where our possessions go and whether the police, who are paid well, are using these items for their own benefit. 

Solution: Once a player has been placed in a cell, their belongings should be returned to them with the expectation that they do not use these items in their cell. This ensures that legal items remain with their rightful owner and also make things easier for the police as they don't have to place them in the lockers where they might forget and then have to return to the police station to return them. In the prison where cells aren't locked this may be more tricky but perhaps cells can be made as no-theft areas and players can leave their items there until their sentence is finished - again with the expectation that they do not use these items while detained. 

 

I appreciate any comments or additional suggestions on what I have said here. I have taken quite a bit time thinking these concerns through and trying to come up with reasonable solutions - please take care that your responses are also thoughtful. Thank you. 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Charlotte Valmont said:

1. Issue: police making arrests without questioning suspects when no realistic RP evidence is present

This has happened many times in my experience. The police arrest you, do their /do, put you in the car, and then just tell each other what to charge you with. They almost never answer questions and pretend evidence of your guilt exist when it doesn't. This degrades the RP experience and makes players, particularly those just starting not want to play. It essentially makes police officers the judge, the jury, and the executioner in every single interaction. Instead of enjoying opportunities to play in the dark underbellies of the crime world, many people I know have given up and now just fish until they are so bored they stop playing. 

Solution: Police must state in text what crime they suspect you of before they search you but after they've looked at your ID. Once they've stated the reason they have to provide the suspect an opportunity to provide an explanation/rebuttal/defense at which point the police must state in chat what evidence they have to detain the suspect. Evidence should be concrete and plausible in real life (i.e., eye witness, fingerprints, video evidence). Not for example: driving into a chop shop where multiple people are, the car chops within seconds of their arrival, and they arrest everyone. There is no plausible evidence in this scenario. The car is gone and therefor cannot be fingerprinted, no one has confessed, no one has provided an eyewitness statement, or video. In cases such as these, people should be let go until such time that the server implements a judicial system with lawyers and judges.  

Police Officers are required by IC regulations to explain to someone why they are being arrested/detained. However, they do not need to IC'ly spend their time providing evidence. This is for two reasons. One, if an Officer sees you committing a crime that is enough to arrest you, meaning if you were to ask for ''evidence'' their word (and any bodycam they have) would be the evidence. Secondly, this would lead to most people demanding to see the evidence of their crimes, which would obviously lead to extremely long situations. (I'm not opposed to extending situations, just informing you why this is the case).

You have to realize that in real life if an Officer arrests you they DO NOT have to show you evidence straight away of why you were detained, this can be done during trial where any and all evidence is shown and your lawyer can then defend you. I understand in ECRP we don't have a legal system, but hopefully this can be an option when it gets added.

As for the solution portion ''Police must state in text what crime they suspect you of before they search you but after they've looked at your ID. Once they've stated the reason they have to provide the suspect an opportunity to provide an explanation/rebuttal/defense at which point the police must state in chat what evidence they have to detain the suspect.''. Simply put. No. We arrest/detain people for a variety of reasons, which doesn't always involve charging someone for a crime. In general, Officers will absolutely explain why they are arresting you. However, post people in ECRP given the chance would just run away or get in a car/bike before the Officer had the time to explain why they are being detained. Which is why we put someone in cuffs first AND THEN we are happy to answer any questions you have about the arrest short of having to upload footage or reveal information which can not be revealed at the time.

Furthermore, do not forget every Officer is held to a strict IC/OOC corruption rule, if you suspect anyone is arresting you without a valid reason then you can IC IA report, OOC IA report or Forum Report.

 

1 hour ago, Charlotte Valmont said:

2. Issue: Police ignoring areas of their role that are less exciting or fun just so they can participate in RP that is exciting and fun (or just generally do something else)

Another issue I have run across so frequently in my short time on the server that seems to be running rampant. This is also backed up by the many conversations I have had with others who feel the same. For example, you are at the fish drop-off, another player steals your crate of fish, you flag down a cop, and they respond by telling you to file a report online. At this point, the suspect has only had 30 seconds to escape so could be easily caught but the police (who doesn't have their lights on responding to an emergency) isn't interested in wasting their time. Another example, you're being chased by masked gang members trying to kill you, you flag down a police officer on the street and explain that you need their help, they direct you to go to the police station, you explain you cant because of NCZ rules, you point out the people following you, cops doesn't want to take the time to investigate your claims or approach the people following you, and just tell you to go wait in a well-populated area. 

Solution: I believe it should be mandatory for the police to follow-up with every complaint made by a person on the server - especially those made in the midst of RP scenario where suspects and evidence can be preserved. Unless there is a very serious crime being committed in the city (i.e., hostage situation) and all police are required at the scene, there shouldn't be any excuse for police not to respond to these requests for help. In situations where the police are unable to help and do require you file a report online, they must state in text that they are responding to a serious incident and provide their badge number. When the player files the report online, they provide this information and the investigating police officer must check that the responding officer did in fact have a serious incident the made it not possible for them to deal with the complaint being made.  

This is most likely unintentional, but quite Ironic. You stated previously the police were judge, jury and executioner, which is right. However, because this is the case it means we can't go around arresting/detaining people without probable cause, which according to our IC guidelines isn't granted by ''witness testimony''. So when you flag an Officer down and they ask you to file a crime report, they do so such that you are able to prepare any evidence you might have (if any at all). Does this mean they should ignore you or not stop ? Of course not, in fact ignoring such things when there isn't an on-going situation is not only bad RP, but probably falls under breaking corruption rules in some way. 

Matter of fact is, we can not arrest/detain based on witnesses alone, we need to see something happen ourselves or people need to provide us with bodycam footage, either actual recordings with a screenshot saved showing you did bodycam RP (with /time command in the screenshot) OR they can simply RP putting the bodycam on, save the screenshot and we can use /do and /ldo to determine the truth since players can not lie in /do. Absent that, most likely nothing can be done unless we see it happening, again this might change if a justice system is put in place, until then you are correct we are judge, jury and executioner, as such we must be extremely careful and make sure every arrest we do, is done with the best amount of evidence.

As for the gang members chasing you comment, I have personally been involved in escorting multiple people to safety, if you can't go to the police station or such because you would be breaking NCZ rules that is an IC action you chose to make, RP it out to the full extent, even then most Officers will ask the vehicles to stop following, giving them a warning that they will be arrested for harassment. 

ECRP isn't a perfect replica of a normal city, at peak we are busy 99% of times, most of which involve shots fired calls, shootouts, gang related matters, etc... Even then we want all crimes to be looked into, which is why we have a crime report section on the government website, we want people to use that.

1 hour ago, Charlotte Valmont said:

3. Police not returning possessions to people who have been jailed/imprisoned 

My understanding is that there is already some policy regarding this but it clearly doesn't work. In every single arrest I have had where I have been placed in jail or prison, I have only received my belongings back once. I know this is also the same for my friends. After paying fines/fees and having your criminal possessions taken, it is infuriating having your fishing rod, fish, food, water, radios, GPS, bags, clothing etc. taken from you and never returned. For those of us who have just started and barely have money or means to make money, this sends us straight back to square one. It also makes me question where our possessions go and whether the police, who are paid well, are using these items for their own benefit. 

Solution: Once a player has been placed in a cell, their belongings should be returned to them with the expectation that they do not use these items in their cell. This ensures that legal items remain with their rightful owner and also make things easier for the police as they don't have to place them in the lockers where they might forget and then have to return to the police station to return them. In the prison where cells aren't locked this may be more tricky but perhaps cells can be made as no-theft areas and players can leave their items there until their sentence is finished - again with the expectation that they do not use these items while detained. 

Recently we have been given the ability to store people's items at Mission Row. However, this is only reserved for people arrested there. If you are jailed at DOC they take care of storing these items. Give us some time to get used to this new system as I am sure there have been lapses by Officers in storing items given the recent implementation. Ideally, any items an Officer leaves on someone should be returned to them, which would make things a lot easier, but that would require further development scriptly speaking.

 

Overall, I think a Justice system would be great, I wouldn't mind extending RP situations and having to show evidence in court, whether it is RP'ly or actual footage, but as it stands Officers need to be extremely careful when arresting people to make sure they are being arrested for something they actually did, thus the emphasis on recording and keeping bodycam RP screenshotted if requested. As for the way Officer's arrested/detain people, I have zero issues with how it is done currently, we will always explain why someone was arrested/detained after you are in cuffs if the reason is serious or you are a known criminal, asking repeatedly before being put in cuffs will only yield you more charges.

 

Disclaimer: The above is only my thoughts on the subject and I do not, in any way, represent the LSPD faction as a group, Furthermore, any information here that might allude to IC information is not to be taken and used in-game as that would constitute metagaming.

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