Limit Robberies and Fear RP Rule Suggestion

[Sam Axe]

im very new (only 3 days here) but ive had a lot of experience in rp on gta4 and gta5 both in running communities (probably 40+), and being a moderator in a few and defiantly can say ecrp in almost every area the best server or community ive ever seen except for 1 thing. way too many robberies happen. within the first day without doing anything illegal my car was stolen, robbed several times (5+) and then when started getting involved in drugs (used a timer) got robbed every 6 minutes on average. literally someone robbed me at 1 site and before I could leave another car blocked me and robbed me a 2nd time before I could even leave. yes there are a lot of people who are in fact doing other things making the community breath like mining, transport, taxi driving and so on but robberies are way to often and is the only place I don't see a rule preventing it from happening in unrealistic levels compared to everything else, so today im suggesting a couple rules and would love some feedback or ideas

 

people could only be robbed if they are:

1: in a location that crime is common, like drug areas, chop shops, near shops like clothing stores, gas stations, drug labs, atm's or areas like that. nobody ever literally sits on the side of a highway on a radio and says a guy on a moped just passed by lets go rob him... or at least in the amount ive seen it happening. I know this is already sorta established with ncz's but those areas are very small and for new players starting out it really puts them at a disadvantage when trying to earn money and play. 

2: there should be a couple vehicles exempt from being targeted unless seen in a area with crime happening normally, or if its parked in a area known to criminals like above, the car shouldn't be able to be robbed to prevent new players from being targeted making them feel like they cant do anything.

 

3: if someone is being robbed in a crime zone they should be exempt from the fear rp rule if that person has a vehicle close by (like next door or in the garage of that same building, or even outside) if they have a weapon on them, staring at the person or has friend within voice range. not every guy getting robbed willingly gives up thousands of $ worth of product just because they hear hands up from someone near by

 

a situation I had recently: someone on a different floor than me started yelling hands up, (in a building with 2 floors and 1 way up and down, and not a culminal area, dude didn't have me in sights at all) hearing this I took out my gun, ran to the stairs and when he came up shot him (called pd and ems for the guy and I was said to be in the right) however he was arguing in ooc that because he said "hands up" it was straight fear rp rules breaking even tho he was on a floor under me, and didn't even see me yet. he never called a admin I guess because we were in the same building with a solid floor, and I had a gun already out from hearing his car outside. people in robberies only use this ive seen when someone is getting away and don't care to chase them or they are just mad because they got shot or didn't get to rob them. the chance of being killed and spawning so far away from your car at a hospital with no gps, loose all your stuff and the progress on your task are already huge compared to oh well, I got robbed guess ill keep making more. in real life or any major scenario if someone is being robbed with a gun to their back would obviously surrender but if they have a friend in the next room with a shotgun, or only a foot from a running car with a door open and the mugger is 30 feet away, or if the dude with $20,000 worth of drugs on him with a shotgun would obviously in any major situation would go for it.

there are soo many rules already here helping rp and make it way more fun, but these constant robberies really hurt the base from ive seen in the last few days and especially the risk of being banned from this amazing community because of the fear rp is crazy to me when the community strives for fun and realism. the rule is fairly clear in text form but ingame its pretty different when you think of scenarios actually unfolding, im mean the rule is pretty clear 'When you are on foot or bike and a weapon is aimed at you at close range' but what if someone is on your bike aiming a gun at the guy whos aiming at you? or the guy with the bike already has a shotgun ready to go only a foot from the car window?

[GR_Seb]

decent enough

[Sam Axe]

7 minutes ago, Papadakis said:

decent enough

thx

[Sineye]

 

15. Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

• Players cannot force their victims to withdraw money from an ATM, sell property, or sell vehicles.

• Players cannot force their victims to hand over assets that are not present in the area.

• Players cannot steal from players with “NEW PLAYER” above their head unless it is in retaliation. 

• Players with the (( NEW PLAYER )) tag that deliberately insert themselves into or start active crime scenes lose their new player protection during those illegal activities.

• Players may not steal from their faction treasury as the F4 menu is OOC.

• Permission for prison break must be approved by a Moderator+ prior to the attempt.

• Players may participate in no more than 1 prison break attempt within 1 OOC week.

• Official Factions may attempt 2 additional breaks in the case the prisoner is the faction leader.

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for these specific reasons:

• You have to have a roleplay reason to kill the victim in accordance with the a, b, and c points under DM section.

• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery. An NPC is not a valid hostage.

• If a hostage situation involves police in any way all of players involved in holding the hostage may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week.

New players are already have protection as long as you are not inserting yourself or creating a crime scene. I would always suggest as a new player in town to spend your time as a new player in town to spend time making your connections if you are going to live a criminal life as numbers matter a lot. Also there is more or less a given. If you conduct in illegal activity expect to be robbed. If you don't have numbers when you are out at sites there is nothing that can be done and it is not fair to those who might come by after you have been robbed a while prior to rob you again. If you don't wanna be robbed leave the place and make connections get a larger group then go back.

[Victor Einhart]

The situation you describe was not fear rp if the dude wasn't even on the same floor.  If that person seriously argued you broke fear rp they are playing the fool.  Having said that, fear RP prevents some truly nutty things from happening.

I have situations all the time where we roll up on someone that's trying to run and we jump out to point guns at him and place him under arrest.  Without fear RP, 100% of people would suicide by cop to avoid going to jail or try to fight their way out.  If a gun is to your head and you try to pull out your own gun, you will be shot before you can do anything.  While I don't agree with some of the edge cases of fear rp (like how you're expected to see people pointing a gun at you if you aren't looking in that direction), I think it does more good than bad.

[Sam Axe]

25 minutes ago, Sineye said:

 

 

15. Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

• Players cannot force their victims to withdraw money from an ATM, sell property, or sell vehicles.

• Players cannot force their victims to hand over assets that are not present in the area.

• Players cannot steal from players with “NEW PLAYER” above their head unless it is in retaliation. 

• Players with the (( NEW PLAYER )) tag that deliberately insert themselves into or start active crime scenes lose their new player protection during those illegal activities.

• Players may not steal from their faction treasury as the F4 menu is OOC.

• Permission for prison break must be approved by a Moderator+ prior to the attempt.

• Players may participate in no more than 1 prison break attempt within 1 OOC week.

• Official Factions may attempt 2 additional breaks in the case the prisoner is the faction leader.

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for these specific reasons:

• You have to have a roleplay reason to kill the victim in accordance with the a, b, and c points under DM section.

• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery. An NPC is not a valid hostage.

• If a hostage situation involves police in any way all of players involved in holding the hostage may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week.

New players are already have protection as long as you are not inserting yourself or creating a crime scene. I would always suggest as a new player in town to spend your time as a new player in town to spend time making your connections if you are going to live a criminal life as numbers matter a lot. Also there is more or less a given. If you conduct in illegal activity expect to be robbed. If you don't have numbers when you are out at sites there is nothing that can be done and it is not fair to those who might come by after you have been robbed a while prior to rob you again. If you don't wanna be robbed leave the place and make connections get a larger group then go back.

that may be the rule but people don't abide by it along with a lot of other rules if its a new person. lets just think for a second, we have safe zones in areas that would normally be safe, so why not have crime locations meaning robing people or stealing cars in this area means people can fight back? the main point im making is over 3 days ive seen people targeted because they aren't in gangs which they cant join sense they wont let brand new people to the server in unless they prove themselves and even then still not very often because these people have been playing for years and don't want to let random people join?  just look at punishment appeals for how many people are getting fear rp as the reasons for suspensions and bans. someone in real life isn't gonna rob someone in a broken down rusted out car with really cheap clothes unless they are at somewhere easy like a gas station or high crime area so why not apply that here?

[Sam Axe]

26 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

The situation you describe was not fear rp if the dude wasn't even on the same floor.  If that person seriously argued you broke fear rp they are playing the fool.  Having said that, fear RP prevents some truly nutty things from happening.

I have situations all the time where we roll up on someone that's trying to run and we jump out to point guns at him and place him under arrest.  Without fear RP, 100% of people would suicide by cop to avoid going to jail or try to fight their way out.  If a gun is to your head and you try to pull out your own gun, you will be shot before you can do anything.  While I don't agree with some of the edge cases of fear rp (like how you're expected to see people pointing a gun at you if you aren't looking in that direction), I think it does more good than bad.

but see that's why im saying it would need to be specific instead of whats already in, some examples could be as simple as if your outnumbered at gunpoint youd fear for your life, if your 1 on 1 and someone has a gun aimed at you but you have a knife that could be a point they have to abide, i noticed you mentioned 100% of the people would suicide by cop rather than going to jail but wouldn't it be more realistic if on a traffic stop a felon with 6 warrants, been to jail and has a gun would be pretty likely to try to go out like that? unless hes outnumbered which is why it could be a simple 1 on 1 thing that could be the change and would make it soo much better

[Sineye]

2 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

that may be the rule but people don't abide by it along with a lot of other rules if its a new person. lets just think for a second, we have safe zones in areas that would normally be safe, so why not have crime locations meaning robing people or stealing cars in this area means people can fight back? the main point im making is over 3 days ive seen people targeted because they aren't in gangs which they cant join sense they wont let brand new people to the server in unless they prove themselves and even then still not very often because these people have been playing for years and don't want to let random people join?  just look at punishment appeals for how many people are getting fear rp as the reasons for suspensions and bans. someone in real life isn't gonna rob someone in a broken down rusted out car with really cheap clothes unless they are at somewhere easy like a gas station or high crime area so why not apply that here?

From my experience you don't get robbed with a super cheap vehicle just because. It is not worth it for the large gangs to steal warrners and such as those are people that could be chopping much more expensive cars and actually make a decent profit. Typically if they do its because you have mouthed off or something along those lines.

Secondly the server staff I feel has always been quick to act when it comes to people breaking the rules if you will just do the simple end of obtaining proof via OBS or some other screen recording program. If you truly believe people are not following the rule on robbing new people provide a bit of proof and a guarantee the staff members will take care of that player.

2 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

but see that's why im saying it would need to be specific instead of whats already in, some examples could be as simple as if your outnumbered at gunpoint youd fear for your life, if your 1 on 1 and someone has a gun aimed at you but you have a knife that could be a point they have to abide, i noticed you mentioned 100% of the people would suicide by cop rather than going to jail but wouldn't it be more realistic if on a traffic stop a felon with 6 warrants, been to jail and has a gun would be pretty likely to try to go out like that? unless hes outnumbered which is why it could be a simple 1 on 1 thing that could be the change and would make it soo much better

The server does not currently really support Death RP. As such acts that would clearly lead to your character's death and breach Fear RP should be avoided. If these rule for Fear RP were lessened or tossed out it might as well be a normal GTA V session with people always going around guns blazing and never following commands and thus not role playing on a RP server.

[Sam Axe]

4 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

but see that's why im saying it would need to be specific instead of whats already in, some examples could be as simple as if your outnumbered at gunpoint youd fear for your life, if your 1 on 1 and someone has a gun aimed at you but you have a knife that could be a point they have to abide, i noticed you mentioned 100% of the people would suicide by cop rather than going to jail but wouldn't it be more realistic if on a traffic stop a felon with 6 warrants, been to jail and has a gun would be pretty likely to try to go out like that? unless hes outnumbered which is why it could be a simple 1 on 1 thing that could be the change and would make it soo much better

or another idea officers could be given medical permissions to stabilize people who are wounded, this would mean more than likely if the rule was changed and they tried it they could still survive and serve jail time anyway

[Sineye]

2 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

or another idea officers could be given medical permissions to stabilize people who are wounded, this would mean more than likely if the rule was changed and they tried it they could still survive and serve jail time anyway

Cops with their BLS cert already can stabilize somebody until medics arrive. Does not change that fact that an act of not following fear rp would not show any regards for your life. There should never be an excuse that you where sure someone should be able to stabilize you so you didn't fear for you life. If you follow the current fear rp rules I can tell you right now. You spend a time getting use to them you will see why they are necessary and you will actually come to enjoy them.

[Sam Axe]

Just now, Sineye said:

Cops with their BLS cert already can stabilize somebody until medics arrive. Does not change that fact that an act of not following fear rp would not show any regards for your life. There should never be an excuse that you where sure someone should be able to stabilize you so you didn't fear for you life. If you follow the current fear rp rules I can tell you right now. You spend a time getting use to them you will see why they are necessary and you will actually come to enjoy them.

that's not what im saying, im saying that fear rp is being used as a weapon more than an actual rule break and both taking admins away from actual major violations, and also just trolling people more than preventing unrealistic situations i feel, i don't see why something like if your being robbed by 1 person with a gun, and you have a gun that if your next to a door (less than a foot) why wouldn't you quickly move half a foot, pull out your gun and try to fight back?

 

1 minute ago, Sineye said:

From my experience you don't get robbed with a super cheap vehicle just because. It is not worth it for the large gangs to steal warrners and such as those are people that could be chopping much more expensive cars and actually make a decent profit. Typically if they do its because you have mouthed off or something along those lines.

Secondly the server staff I feel has always been quick to act when it comes to people breaking the rules if you will just do the simple end of obtaining proof via OBS or some other screen recording program. If you truly believe people are not following the rule on robbing new people provide a bit of proof and a guarantee the staff members will take care of that player.

The server does not currently really support Death RP. As such acts that would clearly lead to your character's death and breach Fear RP should be avoided. If these rule for Fear RP were lessened or tossed out it might as well be a normal GTA V session with people always going around guns blazing and never following commands and thus not role playing on a RP server.

1: its not that gangs are taking the warners and chopping them but in my first time someone stole mine from sandy litarly drove it out to the training grounds in paleto and hid it just so i couldn't use it,

2: thankfully i have shadowplay and been called out for fear rp a couple times and showed video proof and a admin dismissed the situation and just resumed rp but that's what point im making, even with proof people still use fear rp as a weapon against people just because they got away sometimes, granted some cases you would obviously give up but in crime situations not every single criminal simply hands over a stash of drugs or willingly gets out of his car just because someone says hands up, all that would be need id say is just change it to say if your in a even fight 1 on 1 and you have a weapon even while being aimed at you could fight back but if your outnumbered you would have to give up

 

3: im not suggesting allowing death rp, im suggesting the exact same thing that everyone on the server does if you get knocked unconscious by something, having to call ems, or being transported to the hospital where you get transported, get treated and your discharged.

[Victor Einhart]

26 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

wouldn't it be more realistic if on a traffic stop a felon with 6 warrants, been to jail and has a gun would be pretty likely to try to go out like that?

Here's the thing though.  In that situation if he tries anything, we're just going to shoot him.  There aren't any illusions about how it would play out because if you seriously try to fight that situation you clearly don't value your life.  That isn't roleplay, that's gunning down someone for doing something intensely foolish in every respect.

More likely they'd try to run from the felony stop, which in my experience is what everybody does because they 1). value their life and 2). have valuables on their person or in the vehicle they don't want to lose.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Victor Einhart

[Sam Axe]

12 minutes ago, Sineye said:

Cops with their BLS cert already can stabilize somebody until medics arrive. Does not change that fact that an act of not following fear rp would not show any regards for your life. There should never be an excuse that you where sure someone should be able to stabilize you so you didn't fear for you life. If you follow the current fear rp rules I can tell you right now. You spend a time getting use to them you will see why they are necessary and you will actually come to enjoy them.

and also i get the reason for fear rp rules, ive seen in serves the often police shootings, often amounts of shootouts, and several other situations just because there is no fear rp rule but what im saying and trying to change is if its there to quote from the rules: Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life Wouldn't a person being robbed be for in fear of theyre life by stopping a car 3 feet away from the guy trying to rob/kidnap them vs keep going and take cover behind a steering wheel?

[Sam Axe]

6 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

Here's the thing though.  In that situation if he tries anything, we're just going to shoot him.  There aren't any illusions about how it would play out because if you seriously try to fight that situation you clearly don't value your life.  That isn't roleplay, that's gunning down someone for doing something intensely foolish in every respect.

More likely they'd try to run from the felony stop, which in my experience is what everybody does because they 1). value their life and 2). have valuables on their person or in the vehicle they don't want to lose.

but that's why atleast change it so if your outnumbered by people holding you at gunpoint youd give up, the whole fear rp rule from the rule book says: Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life So wouldn't a person be more afraid of their life being mugged/chased than simply keep going in a car? or if they have a gun already out fight? that's why i suggested that if someone is outnumbered at gunpoint then it would be like the rule now buy if its a 1 on 1 situation that should be justified to try and fight

Edited November 25, 2019 by Sam Axe

[Sineye]

14 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

and also i get the reason for fear rp rules, ive seen in serves the often police shootings, often amounts of shootouts, and several other situations just because there is no fear rp rule but what im saying and trying to change is if its there to quote from the rules: Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life Wouldn't a person being robbed be for in fear of theyre life by stopping a car 3 feet away from the guy trying to rob/kidnap them vs keep going and take cover behind a steering wheel?

You are clearly not 100% familiar yet of the fear rp rules. 

 

Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life.   

Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is considered to be in direct danger:

• When you are on foot or bike and a weapon is aimed at you at close range.

• When you’re in a vehicle that is stalled or turned off and a weapon is aimed at you close range.

• When the attacker lowers their weapon to type or roleplay, your life remains in direct danger.

• Driving a vehicle in an active shootout more than once without the intent of protecting a friend, fleeing with it, or using it as cover.

There are plenty of cases where you can still drive away. If your vehicle is still on and functional and your not blocked off by all means drive away within reason. How ever if you stall or the car is off that is a different story. They give you a bit more leniency than I think you assume you have. Gun doesn't always me just stop what your doing. However that doesn't mean just run away all the time either. The more you are familiar with the rules the less binded by them you will feel.

[Sam Axe]

1 hour ago, Sineye said:

You are clearly not 100% familiar yet of the fear rp rules. 

 

 

Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life.   

Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is considered to be in direct danger:

• When you are on foot or bike and a weapon is aimed at you at close range.

• When you’re in a vehicle that is stalled or turned off and a weapon is aimed at you close range.

• When the attacker lowers their weapon to type or roleplay, your life remains in direct danger.

• Driving a vehicle in an active shootout more than once without the intent of protecting a friend, fleeing with it, or using it as cover.

There are plenty of cases where you can still drive away. If your vehicle is still on and functional and your not blocked off by all means drive away within reason. How ever if you stall or the car is off that is a different story. They give you a bit more leniency than I think you assume you have. Gun doesn't always me just stop what your doing. However that doesn't mean just run away all the time either. The more you are familiar with the rules the less binded by them you will feel.

at a lab (not gonna mention which one) I was starting to leave in my little werenerberg cheap car, and then a car pulled in and blocked it, I was already backing up to go another way when a guy got out with a assault rifle (maybe 40ish feet) fired and barley hit the car. after driving for like 2 mins I get teleported back there by a admin and the guy is complaining of fear rp rules were broken even though I was so far away in the video I showed I couldn't even hear the guy. that's why im saying it should be changed to allow people a option to fight back, like if your outnumbered at close range facing away  and they say hands up? then yea you need to give up. I just don't get otherwise why its such a big deal to say if 2 guys have guns and are both close to each other why not allow a option where someone if its close quarters like a house to move 6 inches to the side and hop into a room, pull out his gun and be able to fight even at gunpoint. I know that simply saying hands up doesn't say in the rules you have to stop in your tracks instantly but im getting tired of getting teleported back to a scene to have to explain what happened, open premier, clip the video, upload it and send it to a admin and have to start the whole thing over again and sometimes get caught by the guy the second time. I just feel like it would be better if it was as simple as if your outnumbered then at close range if there isn't somewhere to run then give up, but if you have a weapon or 1 foot away from the running car that you have as cover you could use it ya know? it would also encourage people who are gonna rob to have other friends with them to make sure they would make people surrender.

 

I think you might also be confusing where im coming from, im not saying fear rp needs to be removed. I totally understand the point and agree it needs to be there but I think it needs to be slightly changed to allow someone to be able to resist under certain circumstances if someone is sloppy like doesn't have backup, choose to be to far away before making themselves known or just things like that 

[Sineye]

6 minutes ago, Sam Axe said:

at a lab (not gonna mention which one) I was starting to leave in my little werenerberg cheap car, and then a car pulled in and blocked it, I was already backing up to go another way when a guy got out with a assault rifle (maybe 40ish feet) fired and barley hit the car. after driving for like 2 mins I get teleported back there by a admin and the guy is complaining of fear rp rules were broken even though I was so far away in the video I showed I couldn't even hear the guy. that's why im saying it should be changed to allow people a option to fight back, like if your outnumbered at close range facing away  and they say hands up? then yea you need to give up. I just don't get otherwise why its such a big deal to say if 2 guys have guns and are both close to each other why not allow a option where someone if its close quarters like a house to move 6 inches to the side and hop into a room, pull out his gun and be able to fight even at gunpoint. I know that simply saying hands up doesn't say in the rules you have to stop in your tracks instantly but im getting tired of getting teleported back to a scene to have to explain what happened, open premier, clip the video, upload it and send it to a admin and have to start the whole thing over again and sometimes get caught by the guy the second time. I just feel like it would be better if it was as simple as if your outnumbered then at close range if there isn't somewhere to run then give up, but if you have a weapon or 1 foot away from the running car that you have as cover you could use it ya know? it would also encourage people who are gonna rob to have other friends with them to make sure they would make people surrender.

 

I think you might also be confusing where im coming from, im not saying fear rp needs to be removed. I totally understand the point and agree it needs to be there but I think it needs to be slightly changed to allow someone to be able to resist under certain circumstances if someone is sloppy like doesn't have backup, choose to be to far away before making themselves known or just things like that 

If you are in a vehicle that is running you were never under fear rp. 

 

• Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is NOT considered to be in direct danger:

• When you are in a car which engine is not stalled.

• When you have a firearm drawn and are facing the other person before they attacked.

• When the attacker’s view is obstructed by an object or when they turn their back on you.

 

I know it can be a bit frustrating when someone claims fear rp and start a staff sit when you were potentially not under fear rp but in the end you will wind up with sits regardless with people not fully understanding the rules. The rules can at times be frustrating at times as there is no way for the staff team to force 100% understanding on every person. I fear there will always be cases like these whether we like it or not and changes rules around will just wind up in misunderstandings the other way around in cases like these.