inFamousMax

Welcome! enjoy your stay here.

Thanks! Added - Gun/Drug Seller

Thanks! Added -- Commodities Extract Explained

Added ======= ECONOMY ======= section. Can be found here, https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/5219-dynamic-economy-based-on-supply-and-demand/ It ties in perfectly with the suggestions in this post and always had a system like this in mind but thought it best to split. Thanks again all!

Hi All! So this is my economy suggestion for ECRP, this ties in with the suggestions made here (PREVIOUS SUGGESTIONS ). It simply won't work without systems/features suggested there. - Dynamic Economy -- What is a Dynamic Economy "Just like most countries around the world, the value of the local currency is based on value per currency. This is determined by MANY many many many factors of which is impossible to replicate in a game like this. However, we can take a very simple measuring solution and base our economy on that for a strong reliable and predictable economy that's also fun to manage and that is Supply & Demand. As demand rises so should the supply, at least that's the idea." -- How do we track it? "SQL is god. What I suggest if you don't already is to set a few passive trackers that manage resources within this script, for the purposes of this economy I will be using the examples in my previous suggestions. By keeping data of stock levels we can track the supply and demand without having to also track the monetary value of specific items as this would make it unmanageable and a full-time job. What I suggest is by tracking previous and current stock levels we can use some simple equations to predict the market growth and decline which is very important when maintaining an economy." -- But why? I just wanna drive and pew pew "Well, It's very important to have a strong economy in most games, you put time and effort into playing a game where at its core the reward is financial, it benefits you the buyer and the businesses as the supplier. If you buy a vehicle 1 week and it's price doubles the next is this justified or is it simply greed? The most important thing about an economy in a game like this is that it can be driven by the population, which in a role-play game can be the most satisfying experience you will get. As i explain below you may not care about the figures but you'll surely care about the control. Control will come from the S&D which is stock, pretty much anything can be measured by quantity and that's how this will work." -- What does this economy offer? "Two examples here, both criminal and non-criminal. Criminal, Let's say I sell illegal weapons and have 3 workers. Now in week 1, the workers manage to sell 300 weapons, the next week 400, that's growth but in week 3 they only manage to sell 50. What's going on? I need that money. Well it turns out a lot of players where running guns in week 1 and the stock grew to 500, the next week however only 200 made it to the warehouse, with week 1's stock it was enough to cover week 2's shortfall but in week 3 only 50 guns made it to the warehouse, why was that? Well, the Police were running active stings pretty harshly in week 2 and 3 which meant supply simply slowed to a crawl. As a leader of an illegal gun empire, what are you going to do? what can you do? Throw into the mix rival gangs competing to sell guns, drug supply, vehicle supply, illegal parts supply, and you've got yourself a criminal underworld of goods. Non-Criminal, Imagine you own a store on the outskirts of town, suddenly you notice you're not receiving as many goods lately. This is most likely because people are not doing the courier job enough, it might be because you're too far and most people give up before getting to your store. So you put your prices up to cover the problem, hey you're a specialist store now. However, if the demand in your area is not enough to cover this then you may have to ask for help. Perhaps made friends with some couriers and ask them to stock your stores first for a small reward. Or maybe, just maybe you seek help a little more direct, if another store wasn't getting stocked at all, well demand would surely increase for you right? In both these examples we look at two businesses, Illegal gun selling and a store owner, as far from each other as possible however they both share a common realistic problem. How to manage and run a business efficiently and for profit. One is illegal by nature but one can be illegal by circumstance, just like real life. However for the smartest out there perhaps they can market themselves in a way that attracts the demand necessary without illegal measures. Add 10+ other jobs, 100's of stock levels, and you've got yourself a quite an interesting economy." -- How would Jobs work with this? "Well this is one of the great things about using a supply and demand system, YOU can be the supply. If we take the vehicle dealership, for example, a job can be created which is delivering vehicles to the store. Now if that vehicle is not in stock then you can't buy it and would possibly force people to go elsewhere to find it, not so good for the owner. But since this is a dynamic economy you can control that. Simply hop onto the Vehicle Trucker Job and deliver the vehicles, you'll get a nice paycheck and the dealership will become stocked with vehicles. It really is that simple, one of the most important and key features of this economy is it gives all players no matter how big or small and impact, a purpose, a mission. If all you like to do is trucking well this means that the hours you put in are very important. Hell if you were so dedicated you may be able to affect the prices of vehicles overnight! But be careful, you never know what motives other people have and how they will react to this influx of supply. -- Server Development "Quite simply when a new feature or system is developed a process should be used. Does this utilize the economy? if yes then how? If supply then how can we get real players involved in the role-play. For demand how can it be displayed? Sold?" -- So what is needed for this to work? "Ok this is the kicker, it's a massive change. Well, I say massive, the actual coding would not be much but the CHANGE to current code would be significant. How would this be achieved? For a basic economy, we would just need history. Businesses/Warehouses would need a stock level and this stock level would need to be kept for at least 3 cycles (whatever is decided to be the measurement) For example, the below data I've used is over a 3 week period, let's review it. https://imgur.com/a/bt61u So what you can see in this is a very simplest list of stockable elements, places that can be supplied by the public via a job or criminal event and the demand which is measured by previous stock and quantity sold. From there we can create a simple graph that shows the growth or decline of the market. We can focus on specific commodities like "Shop Stock" if we owned a store or the bigger picture if we were the LS Financial Advisor. This gives us a very powerful tool, both for the ordinary civilian and the criminal. This also provides a great resource for the police in hitting targets or predicting investigation cases." -- Is this limiting? "No, it's in my honest opinion how every single role-play server should base their economy, even if they use it at the most basic level and fluff the stock themselves in times of low-server population. The data you can extract is priceless, not only will you see your living economy but you'll be able to see potential problems or even things that are working as hoped. So even if not fully utilized you can see what adding a few extra columns to a SQL table can get you. Now if a server does decide to actually have stock affected by jobs/events/criminal activity etc, then you get the living part of that economy based on your population's motives. Again fantastic role-play! oh what wonder, but also this gives the server operations team data on what's lacking in the server, is the civilian market low? how long has it been low? why has it not recovered? is the criminal market flourishing? why? how long? is that good? is it expected?." -- Can it be expanded? "Oh but of course. Am a firm believer in walking before you run, but if you think to the future imagine if real-estate prices were bundled in, imagine if bank robberies affected prices, imagine having a STOCK MARKET. You may say "What!" a stock market? how though that's lots of work. Well not really, simply display the historical data of that businesses supply & demand and you have a commodity, whether it's good or not is the deciding factor but it would then allow people to buy stock in that business and of course if successful so are you." -- Will this be implemented? "In a normal server this far into its development, if the data is not already being captured then probably not, you're talking an overhaul of most systems. However ECRP is a little different, the population is already at a starting point of most new servers and can only grow, RAGEMP is around the corner and with new changes comes time for re-implementation of features not working or broken. most importantly, ECRP is in dire need of a financial reset, if suggested are implemented and then this economy is created along with the clean, dirty money feature from my previous post then after testing a financial reset is prime. Not only would this draw in new players that want a fresh start, it should bring back older players who have left and let's face it if you're doing well now there is no reason you can not do better with the above." This will be expanded as the days go on, things added, grammar corrected. -- Commodities Extract Explained "So I wanted to just spend a little time and discuss the eco-system of a simple and complex commodity and it's life cycle. Simple. Let's take shop stock, for example, now this is fully regulated, taxed and abides by the laws (Yes you could be thinking right now, but what if they get their stock from an illegal supplier to save money because their demand is low! and they have made a deal with the wrong people!. WOW awesome :P, thanks for being awesome things like that are why this system is great, the richness of all these systems can be expanded later on in development as the server reaches maximum population! but imagine if that was possible! WHAT). So yes this stock would be delivered to the shipyard/train yard via huge containers (container job in RAGEMP?) so we can safely assume it would be a 1 to 1 commodity, this means for every 1 item there is 1 output. Phone battarys for example are just that and require delivering to the store for sale. The Process life-cycle is, Yard Warehouse is stocked (Import) > Player picks up Shop Stock (Player ownership) > Player delivers stock to store (Store ownership) > Items are sold and require re-supply Very easy, very simple, any player can get involved as it's a simple delivery job and the shop owner can do as much or as little as they want to depend on how successful they wish to be. Complex Stock. Let's take illegal Guns, for example, a highly sought after stock able to determine life and death, protection or survival. Now the server can decide to go as in-depth as they wish for this one, but let's face it I'm going to make this nice and complex :) as I want to include as many players as possible, why? well because it's a living economy, If something in the chain is broken I want everybody to feel it, I want action, I want business as usual role-play and then I want asses to the streets what's going on role-play and everything in between, but primarily the people on the streets will decide what that is. The Process life-cycle is, Gun Components store in import warehouse (Imported, Smuggled across the border) > Gun Components are transported to end warehouse (player ownership) > Gun Materials stored in the warehouse (Gun Material Stock) > Guns are collected by Illegal Distributors (Player Ownership) > Gun Dealers sell to Public (player ownership). So a couple things here, without writing the gun selling system here quite simply we have a 1 to 1 to 1 relationship, Gun Components are taken to a warehouse where they become materials and then from there can become the weapon. We are taking the unprocessed materials and processing them for the output of "Guns". I will write a system in the original suggestions to cater for gun/drug sellers soon to explain this further. But you can see how commodities can be as simple or complex as we want. Adding additional steps decreases the output of a commodity which brings demand and also the added danger which is what we want for certain things like Guns. But for simple shop items, we don't want the problem to the actual commodity itself just the delivery and demand. History - Added -- Commodities Extract Explained - - - Final words, I understand when it comes to peoples money it's a sore subject, and systems like this tend to be marmite you either love it or hate it. If you do hate this then please try to imagine the possibilities of a living economy and not only how it affects you but how you could affect IT. Please leave any constructive feedback below I would love to hear your ideas and any improvements you have to my above suggestion. Once again this suggestion is about giving the tools to the players, and most of all respecting the value of your dollar.

Ah @Triple Seven I see, so the server is in real need of some good money making features for criminals then. I understand why maybe this has not been done yet due to server population but I know it was popular at one stage and no doubt everything mentioned in the initial post was a causing factor in the decline. I would 100% argue that for everything to work the distinction between illegal and legal money will need to be drawn which is awesome since no current system exists for illegal money gaining it won't have a negative effect on money before the implementation. Right now the server has a very dedicated and mostly active medical and police department so the risk vs reward for all these additions is very much present and strong. But it's one of those catch 22 things, Cops are driving around dealing with unrealistic rp and not much to do, give them the system and they stay, give the criminals the system and no cops then there unbalance. It's all about getting the balance right, I have no doubt what so ever that if the features above where implemented yesterday the server would grow and nothing would be abused as police are itching to get diverse role-play like this so it will definitely not be easy for criminals to make the money or abuse the system and the added benefit is new players would get a richer experience. Thanks for your feedback Mamie! :)

@InfamousFelix Nice name btw :P, Absolutely agree and thank you for your kind words. I'm so happy you guys are seeing the interconnectivity between these features, it takes a little more time and imagination but I think it's worth it in the end because you don't simply code 10 features and say here is feature 1 and you can do this, you say here is what we offer now utilise it as you wish. which brings me to your point about end-game, yes this is absolutely very important especially since 90% of the player base goal is normally "Be super rich and powerful" so how do we keep those people entertained? Well, right now the roof is expensive cars which always turns into crime or houses which provide nothing beneficial apart from to say I own a nice house. So it's a tricky subject and one that takes a long time to perfect, but not so much effort to start the ball rolling. I tend to find from my previous communities that I run that you need to turn quality into quantity which for this game equates to management. Keep players occupied with what they believe to be tasks worthy of their time as people always get bored driving fast cars at some point. Take gun trafficking for example as it's an easy one, yes at its core it is a way to make money, and totally risk vs reward. But it also offers power, control over territory, control over the sellers and distributors, it offers power struggles as no one can be at the top for too long as others get greedy or the powerful get complacent. Gives gangs/orgs a value to fight for or to destroy, at times of peace it can be an asset to alliances. Couple all this together and you have some a tremendous roleplay potential, add the Police, investigation department, government office to that and you get Crime & Punishment the potential for news agencies to report on something worthwhile, perhaps the government enacts a law to prevent problems due to news outlets reporting issues to the masses.. Add on top of that the chop shop system (absolutely believe there should be a couple at least), businesses that can be used for crime or major social events, then a proper gun/drug selling system and you don't just get a server with a few good features, you get a server with an organic eco-system, you get supply and demand, you get character depth, you get an economy built on real quantitive statistics that can be managed and tracked and adjusted for times of the year, events, or simply a recession etc.. There is a lot of work here I understand, I'm a software developer at my core and have been for previous communities, It is no small undertaking, but I know these are all bite-sized features that can be ticked off and if even the minimum level of detail is implemented people can fill in the middle with role-play, and systems can be expanded later on. Teach a man to fish right? :) Let's teach our players to fish by giving these features and suggestions like it and then later on give them the boat ;). Thanks!

This is a common problem that is buried deep in the ECRP core. I don't believe anybody is at fault or to blame here as it does currently feel natural due to the situation and location. This is down to the current climate the LSC maintains and the server population. Ideally, if you have no business being at the LSC you shouldn't hang around there as it's currently a prime location for the criminal activity. Please take a look at my suggestion post, hopefully, it would make situations like this more measurable and fitting. It's a big undertaking when changing the eco-system of a server and is no small feat, it's not an overnight fix or even instantly fix once/if implemented. I'm 100% convinced that the players in ECRP are fantastic role-player and have the best intentions, they just need the right environment. Sorry to hear your unhappy but you really need to spend more time and also act more in accordance with your character, from your video you strike me as the type of guy that should have fled the scene when you saw the gunshots and called the police. There is no script in the world that can tell you how your character should act, you need to do that and then perhaps you would have found what you were looking for.

@TheFluciFial Hi! Thank's for your awesome reply. You replied while I was adding the criminal early-mid game section so missed a few things that I've now added. Sorry that was my fault I needed to save as the editor messes up for me sometimes. My initial idea would be using spawned in vehicles so have added this detail. I would love the system to use player owned vehicles but simply due to the server population at the moment I don't think 1, there will be enough vehicles spawned at once. 2, most of the vehicles are high end and don't want to encourage people to go on joy rides just because it's a nice car. 3, due to the low population of the server I doubt you'd not be seen by the owner and immediately killed and defeat the purpose of the job. So for now I think spawned in cars would be best but of course it's up to the developers. But absolutely one day would love it to be player owned and yes perhaps a limit f less than 75k or even still if it's over 75k then you need to take it a special place which is a little riskier and the vehicle will be seen by CCTV (but I go off topic). As per the No Crime Zones, yeah I would love a big social hub like the solution to be added and this would act as the primary social area. I agree PD and MD should not be places where people go to hang out, this is why the social hub would be perfect. Then once the server grows again and Pleato Bay is added another social hub in the north can be added to cater for those etc.. The important thing is how we make the social hub attractive enough to draw in the player base frequently. Hopefully, my ideas above will help, and could even add the Paintball, Go-Karting businesses to that location to bring in traffic. Maybe you guys have some ideas too? So as mentioned directly above this, we need to make the social hub visited as much as possible. At the moment the only every day draw a player has is paychecks but the problem with using paychecks at the moment is they can be banked and not collected. So for example, a courier can work non-stop for 6 hours bank 50k then go collect before logging off. Instead, we want them to visit the social area and meet new people, find new businesses, learn about role-play etc, we also want a place for non-criminals to gather. If we moved paycheck to the social hub then the problem is what do we do with the players who don't get their paycheck for ages? hence missing out on the role-play or learning that goes on at the social hub. My idea is to limit your salary bank to 3 paychecks, so once you have received your 3rd paycheck you need to nip to the social hub and collect it. You will then be able to receive more paychecks, rinse and repeat. Not only would this add structure to the player and comfort (hopefully) but will give them the opportunity to interact with others, and especially others who are non-criminal. Hope this helps, remember though I'm just laying the tracks, the detail can always and should always be changed to fit the server but understandably some features may force people out of their comfort zone and this is exactly the point a game isn't fun when it's predictable right? this is why we all play role-play, and this is why we need dynamic features that allow us 100 different choices, that's why I focus on making every feature/system I suggest as dynamic as possible. Original Post stuff, Added Criminal Early-Mid Game Also added drug/weapon trafficking system hopefully, you like this system, I feel quite proud of this one. It's quite diverse gives people a lot of roles and requires skill and discipline. If you're unprepared or do it on a whim you most likely are not going to make it as there are too many obstacles. But if you prepare and are skillful you surely get a big pay off? The reason I think this kind of thing would work is that it makes even me want to stop being a cop and go criminal! :). I also have not seen a system like this on any other server so hopefully, it's unique too. Thanks all!

Hi @Triple Seven, absolutely agree. Criminal end-game needs to be diverse as of course not every criminal is a bank robber and not every criminal would take hostages as easily as the next. I have a system in mind for gun/drug trafficking that would add role-play for solo/groups that would vary in payoff depending on a multitude of criteria including amount/location/time etc.. It would be a system that allows criminals easy money should they dedicate their time to it and offer other criminal paths. But of course, it would be dangerous (due to their rp situations, not script-wise)/demanding and potentially a huge fall from grace if not careful. It's a system I would want to put a lot of time and effort into since I believe it would also be an entry point for low-level criminals, I just didn't know what ECRP have already as I've not done the criminal life yet. Do they have anything that sounds like the above? I also had some other mid-game criminal money making ideas I will add like the Chop Shop. But I do like to stress that I hope all the stuff that can be added above can also be used by criminals to generate income if they are smart enough :).

Added ====== NON-CRIMINAL END-GAME =====

So this is going to be long and confusing, it would require multiple discussions and draft's that can not be done via forums topic so just bear in mind that for this to be implemented it would need to be fine-tuned and tested. I don't want to write down how role-play will improve with every suggestion so please just ask if you need further detail but I'm sure you'll see how it would just think out side the box. I'm a Business Analyst by profession and have been a consultant for many years now, so take the below suggestions as you will. I've created this topic really quickly and just used it as a draft for some ideas in my head. I've not put in the effort I would like to for each system as it would take hours to fully detail and I really would like to get discussions going as a priority. So if there are any solutions/features below that you would like to see fully expanded please let me know. This in no way is going to fix all issues, and below i'm trying to target "quick-win" solutions that can be easily implemented/changed to vastly improve role-play and more diverse role-play and characters. I have also made a few assumptions below due to my limited time here so absolutely please feel free to take what I've said below and improve on it by commenting. Constructive feedback is the way forward here. Pretty much everything i've said below has been done tried and tested, I've tried to make it as unique as possible but sometimes you just need to add the stuff that works to grow the player base and keep people happy then add unique flavour later on in development. I would also like to add that this is not finished, there is too much to write so will add as time goes on. All changes will be added in the history. Issues Identified: - New players are isolated (massive issue) - New players lack active non-criminal areas - Server lacks criminal end-game - Server lacks non-criminal end-game - Server Economy is broken - Houses potential not being fully utilized - Businesses not being fully utilized - Vehicles are unrealistic - Player demographic not realistic (can be seen as a cops vs robbers environment) Solutions: =================================================================================================================================================== ====== New Player based solutions ======== - non-criminal social hubs are required. "Akin to FiveRP trucker job" a place for discussions, a place for newcomers to interact, a place for absolute new players to get accustomed to rules and server RP alignment. At the moment without drastically changing the current job eco-system I'd say your biggest player draw is "Pay Check" and the problems are, -- How do we get players to visit this frequently? "Perhaps have a maximum salary limit, we want players to visit this at least once every hour, so a limit of 3 Paychecks (don't want a hard currency limit as all paychecks are different). This could prove difficult for jobs like police however who are not able to simply visit and get their paycheck when they like as they are on duty so maybe exclude police/md from this. I'm sure the server would understand." -- How do we keep them in the area for as long as possible? "Perhaps keep it in the centre of many spots, right in the middle of the city seems good at the moment as this means they could visit on the way to other jobs, meetings etc or walk if necessary. Add shop so they can also visit a shop while getting their paycheck. Add car rental at the location. add atm at the location. - Give all new players a phone. Get rid of the charging feature, it's good in theory but just adds unnecessary features. - By giving criminals other things to focus on (such as below) other than drive around really fast should mean less rdm to new comers. New comers should not be interacting with criminals that hang around LSC until much later in their character and even longer for those completely unaccustomed to role-play. I'd also like to add that I don't believe LSC should be a criminal hotspot at all, much more fitting an illegal chop shop as listed below which would then be more realistic for crime in that area and less visited by new non-criminal players. =================================================================================================================================================== ===== Criminal End-Game Solutions ====== Quite simply we need to increase the criminal diversity, at the current stage the end game is "buy a super car and cop bait" search your feelings you know this to be true. How can we do this? - Bank Robbery System -- How do we make it worth it? "Big pay off, have a maximum stealable limit from the vault's determined by how many locks you break. A large payoff will mean lots of criminals will hope to one day pull off such a heist. It would also mean criminals on the edge, brink of bankruptcy may even do it when they would surely fail. Leading to diverse and random role-play with a range of characters" -- How do we make it difficult? "This is mostly down to how the police, hostages respond or react during the situation, which is of course why we are all here so we shouldn't limit or hinder that in any way, however, we can enforce a few difficult things that must be overcome in order to maximise the roleplay. Banks can have 30 locks, each requires skill to pick perhaps a GUI that simulates movie dials etc. Police are alerted as soon as the vault picking begins. Robbers must take hostages if they want the police to take them seriously. Robbers must negotiate with the police to delay time and break more locks and also try and secure a safe getaway. Just having this basic system as is would allow for a great range of role-play and a good option for criminals looking to get a big pay off. Criminals can offer 1 hostage for safe passage which means the police will not pursue until the criminals are in their vehicle, robbers can plan their escape according to how creative they can be. Drive to the sea and escape on a boat, or drive to a helicopter and attempt to fly away? Take 10 hostages place them in an alleyway then drive to the alley after the robbery jump out the vehicle take off your mask and tell them all to run for their life's and scatter attempting to escape amongst the chaos. Banks can only be robbed if 3+ police online The Alert to police can be HALTED for 5 locks if one of the members travels to the junction box located at the transmissions tower and activates the jammer for the full 5 locks [only for banks]. This feature could also be used when robbing stores, however just like if robbing houses the idea is to target businesses/houses you know may be storing dirty money as you could take all the dirty money. " - Change Current Economy A tried and tested system is "Dirty Money" and "Clean Money, aka Money". You use money the same way you do now, however you gain dirty money via criminal scripted systems such as robberies, gun trafficking, illegal chop shops etc.. which must be laundered. -- How do we police it? "Dirty money is illegal, if you have it on your it will be confiscated and you'll receive appropriate charges." -- How do we store it? "Dirty money can be stored in player-owned houses/businesses to a maximum amount, different houses can store different amounts. However, this can be robbed with a similar system to the bank robbery system but with not as many locks and the player has to be online in order to rob their property" -- How can we launder it? " A specific job can be created to drive your money around the city and clean a small chunk at a time. Basically exactly like the courier job is now except you're delivering dirty money. It would need to be difficult, to launder $100,000 must take at least 30 minutes constant work or more. It would look like the same go-postal van but of course, if you draw attention the cops might pull you over can take your dirty AND clean money on your person." -- Where can we use Dirty money? "Your primary goal should be laundering it which would add a lot of role-play even perhaps allow gangs to offer such a service where they launder it for you and take a %. Dirty money can never be used for legal things" =================================================================================================================================================== ======= ORGANIC CRIMINAL HUBS ======== Criminals of different gangs/territories should be avoiding civilian hotspots or turf associated with other criminals. Right now for example it seems like LSC is a cluster of unlikely role-play situations that are forced due to low server population and lack of scripted features. Although we are sometimes thankful stuff happens their "Police for example" since it at least adds some diverse role-play even if it is not great quality, we would still rather have role-play develop naturally and be a lot more fitting. Now this section is going to be a little short as I could definitely sit here and type out a full criminal system that allows for a dynamic criminal Eco-system and economy that caters for all walks of criminal life from small to major crime. But I simply don't know what you have currently scripted on the server as I've not been a criminal on this server yet. So I would appreciate if any criminal characters have read the above can add some suggestions below that fit nicely with the above systems/improvements. In my view as a police officer at the moment this is what i see "may not be true". - No criminal hotspots except "LSC, Bayview" I see no criminal activity in the docks, airport, train station. where are drugs/gun materials being trafficked? We should have information on this and should be Incorporated into our patrols to potentially add role-play. Perhaps this is a scripted system and the police are so uninformed that the locations are completely unknown? Perhaps the system not used at all? or perhaps the payoff is so small nobody does it? I don't know please tell me. - Where is the secrecy? We all know of a certain Russian overlord but should we have so many encounters? A major criminal organization should strive to act in the shadows except for gangs but they don't strike me as a "Gang". What is the limiting factor here? I feel like there are only two active crime groups. Is it purely due to the low population? I've seen a suggestion about how criminal orgs/gangs could be run and it looks fantastic with territories/turfs etc, this would surely promote proper criminal organization and structure? Is this being implemented? if not why. ADDED: I believe I've added enough criminal mid/end game content that would serve to help this purpose with help from the feedback below (Thanks, guys). I believe for criminals we shouldn't try to force a social hub like for non-criminals as it's unrealistic and unnecessary, the criminal hotspots should happen organically depending on the owning organization's temperament and allegiances/enemies etc.. For example I would hope that Chop shops would naturally draw out the worst in society and it's up to the owner/faction/gang to keep it calm as to not draw attention etc.. Criminal hotspots should change over time depending on a multitude of factors. So could be anywhere that fits. =================================================================================================================================================== ====== NON-CRIMINAL END-GAME ===== so been thinking long and hard about this one which is why it's coming later. It's difficult! so please join me if you have ideas. - Business License -- What is a business License? "To own and operate a business you must register for a Business License via the government building in the social hub area. This gives you the ability to buy businesses. Now, this should be cheap we don't want people to see this as a financial blocker just a criminal limitation. -- Criminals and Their License "If your character is involved in criminal activity then a civilian or police officer can request to the Government Business Department for your license to be revoked. The business commission can then review that character and determine if they need to revoke the license (basically no corruption allowed, if a person does any major crimes then the license is revoked, this needs to be strict and harsh. Maybe just if they have a felony charge but still their license get's revoked for x days. During this time the business cannot operate and is closed down. They still have to pay rent but will receive no profit. If their license is revoked 3 times then they lose their license completely and will be forced to sell the business as it would be operating without a license "no profit". -- What does this do? "Hopefully this forces criminals to be a little smarter, especially if they own a business. Now they can get other people to run it for them, fine that's a good way to get around it however if the LSPD Investigations Department find that the business is still technically run by that criminal then the license will still be revoked. Of course, it should not be as easy to revoke a license for a person suspected of running it on behalf of a criminal as it is for just revoking a criminals license but it will add extra layers of role-play and stop criminals from abusing the system. The idea is that we want most businesses to be run by civilians who are not akin to crime as their dangerous counterparts. I believe this system would not stop criminal role-play which we want but force them to be a little smarter, the smarter the criminal the more they can get away with and the smarter the civilian the richer they can become. - More Diverse Businesses So the reason behind the above solution is I didn't want to say "Criminal businesses" and "Non-Criminal" as I believe that should be down to the role-play but I did want to have a way that pushes people in the right direction unless they actively go in their own which then means they make their own criminal choices and it's a more significant and obvious path. The next ideas add more role-play ideas for non-criminals and criminals, it would be harder for criminals to stay under the radar for these but potentially a higher payoff in terms of footfall, however, the same is true for civilians but without the risk of losing the business. REMEMBER that businesses should be able to store Dirty money which adds extra role-play if used. -- City Race Track "Go to the race track and race others, or practice and fine tune those driving skills. The owner can operate it as normal with people paying to drive any time of the day or rent it out as part of events" -- Country Driving Experience "Same as above but more 4x4 originated. Could perhaps have a rally type experience too" -- Boat Racing "Same as above but for boats in the marina or beachfront at the pier" -- Parachute Co. "Take people high in the sky above Sandy Shoes for a thrilling skydiving experience. For parachute only experience, helicopter cannot be used for anything outside of the businesses purpose" -- Paintballing Experience "5v5 in the stadium could have a pistol mode and an m4 mode, obviously the bullets would be "paintballs" nobody would die when killed just spawn back in the waiting area" All these businesses could be operated by civilians or criminals and add plenty of role-play not only for themselves as business owners, events managers etc but also to the general public for places to go and have fun. Team bonding for the police, medics, mechanics, taxi service, news and even criminals orgs/gangs. =================================================================================================================================================== ======== Criminal Early-Mid Game ======== I'm a firm believer that your character will develop organically if given enough time and opportunity it all starts with a simple idea. However it is very important for a server to cater for those characters in as much detail as possible without writing features for specific people. The way I personally believe to do that is via dynamic system/features that can be utilised by multiple character paths depending on their agenda, most of the solutions I've given above can of course be used by it's primairy purpose but that doesn't mean it needs to stay like that forever. For example if a criminal owned the race track they could use the business as a front for laundering or even just enteraining opertations. Of course this would draw police attention but you get what I mean. Below I've listed some ideas that could help criminals obtain money Early-Mid game. - Chop Shop -- What does this business do? "Any person can go to the chop shop, upon speaking to the operator ((an NPC)) you will be given a vehicle (spawns a random vehicle in a random location on the map) that needs to be found and brought back for chopping. This can be a nice little money maker (not as much as other jobs but this wouldn't be a job it would be an illegal extra) to fill in the gaps between those paychecks but unfortunately starts you on a life of crime." -- How do i find it? "You'll be given a blip on a map where it was seen. You'll need to look in that area, it will not be easy to find but at least reduces your search area" -- Special Feature? "I love ECRP insurance it's great very pricey but good concept. I still believe the prices need lowering a little bit. But! what if there was another way? What if when you're running low on cash or simply don't have any guilt, you could go to a chop shop who would repair your car for HALF the price. However, they use stolen parts! CHEAP but costly should you get caught" -- What happens if You're caught? "If you're pulled over and runs your plates they may see that your car has been 'Written off' CAT-5 so they could then investigate the vehicle, we could role-play checking the serial numbers of your vehicle and seeing they do not match. Then, of course, it's up to the police department to decide what happens when you use stolen parts on your vehicle. Chop shops must have fronts! of course, they are illegal, but we don't want to exclude them from role-play or the business license system which if added I believe will add a lot especially to this. A chop should pretend to be something like a CAR CLEANING place etc.. However through the process highlighted in the business license section if you're caught then you potentially lose your license." -- What's the payoff? "Well the person delivering the vehicle gets a cut and the shop owner get's their profit from taking the parts from the vehicle and using them for repairs (instead of mors). Of course, when a person wants their vehicle repaired they could pay with dirty money, which means a chop could also double as a launder. The idea of a chop shop as you can see can be a very powerful asset and if owned should be protected from the police as losing this would surely be a huge sacrifice. Think of the kind of role-play that can be hard by an owner, helping certain gangs/factions, or maybe you're not a criminal in your eyes? just trying to feed your family and it's all you know? Perhaps you're a drug lord whose trusted this business to be run by your guy but it's now being investigated by the police or maybe even a rival faction has decided your business must fail, whatever could they do to make your life hell?." - Drug/Gun Runner -- What do they do? "This job is quite simple, again can be taken to increase money between paychecks however highly dangerous and not for the faint-hearted. Drug/Gun runners must take a shipment from one point to another without getting caught." -- How does it work? "There are two types of drug/weapon running, Moderate Difficulty and High Difficulty, Moderate Difficulty, Go to the docks where the shipment it smuggled in (could be another job). Once you have the package you will be given instruction via phone you must follow these instructions. You MUST wear your mask at all times, you will be asked to go to up to 10 locations and waiting for the drop-off, in this location you must blend in or hide, if undetected for X time you will successfully drop off 1 of your packages. Now be careful as your character has been spotted acting strangely by CCTV, police will be warned at random locations (if responding to the call) during your route it is up to you to evade them, stay under the radar and not draw any attention. If caught however you're not going away for simply possession so don't get caught! The pay off should be more than you would get if doing the same time for a normal non-illegal job as the risk of going to prison/jail can be high." -- High Difficulty Deserves its own section (Can definently be seen as Criminal END-GAME due to it's complexity) -- What do they have to do? "Multiple smuggle locations around the map, shipyard, dock, warehouses, train station in the industrial area. To trigger this event a minimum of two people must go to this location, once there they will meet their contact. Once introductions are made the shipment will be unloaded then loaded onto a truck. It is now vital that you get to sellers warehouse, unfortunately for you, it's on the other side of the map" -- The Detail? "You may trigger this event if more than 5 police officers are online. Upon triggering this event you must manually load the boxes onto your truck, a random number of boxes will need to be loaded up to 20. This takes time, you need to stay low, don't get noticed. Once fully loaded a blip will appear on your marker at a random fuel station half way through your journey. Here you must stop and re-fuel to finish the last leg. Now If you make it here without a police convoy great! you've worked really hard and hopefully, nothing else goes wrong. After waiting at the gas station for a couple minutes you will then be given your final marker which is at the far end of the map, get to that location and unload the boxes. Once unloaded you're done" -- How's it difficult? "When loading a box it should be a GUI, it should look like a box, a box which constantly tries to fall left or right, the person carrying the box must press A or D to balance the box. Too far left or right and the box falls, smashing on the floor and ruining the contents. (this would mean less money at the end). The script will pick a number from 2-5, if you drop this number then the police will be called by a local guard whose noticed something very strange going on at YOUR location. However here is the kicker, the guard started recording and he's noticed you're armed! the Police have been alerted that armed individuals are loading suspicious boxes in a truck at your location, they will respond in force. What do you do? Leave now in the truck and take your chances? do you have an escape plan lined up? are you going to make it? should you just abandon and run?" -- Alert Mechanics "Apart from the boxes dropping and prematurely alerting the police, the Police will be alerted when the truck leaves the warehouse. 'Suspicious truck leaving warehouse without papers reported' the call will go to the warehouse but the truck might not be there anymore? Randomly between 10-90% of the journey between the warehouse and the fuel station the police will get another alert 'Suspicious truck seen at X street' again the call will go to the location last seen but the truck might not be there anymore? The police will get an alert from the fuel station 10 seconds after the truck has left 'truck last spotted at a fuel station in X location'. The police will get a final alert again 10-90% of the way from Fuel station to end warehouse. The difficulty does not come from "YOU WILL GET CAUGHT" it's that you might not. If you plan well, act accordingly and don't rush you may just get through this, and hey if the worst should happen? Just ditch the truck and run right? do you have an escape plan a and b?" -- Police Response "So apart from civilians calling in a truck not following the road laws, or being aggressive or dangerous to them the police will only be alerted a short number of times during the event only to units responding to the original call of trucking leaving the warehouse or if triggered because of a box breaking that would be the main call. In theory, it's not that difficult to evade in that aspect so the difficulty comes by giving you limited choices. Since the police have the ability to respond with lethal force due to the report of armed men you need to act smarter not harder, although hard may work too. Remember Police will normally never shoot first, and unless given reason will use it as a last resort. A couple points I wanted to add just as I can forsee the problem is Police "Knowing locations", Due to the limited nature of scripting it's very unlikely that the developers will be able to have 10 starting warehouses, 10 fuel stations and 10 ending warehouses which would make it impossible for the police to know the locations in a chase or suspicion. If the developers do implement a system that allows that then fantastic and oh my! but if not then I think it's important that police DO NOT assume locations of warehouses, fuel stations unless an prior investigation has returnded information about that SPECIFIC event or been alerted via civilian etc about that SPECIFIC event. It's important that cops do not go "Oh they took the truck i'll head to the fuel station and wait" I absolutely know being in PD that nobody will do that and the high-command would most likely enforce that anyway but just wanted to make it clear to put anybody at ease if they worry. -- Pay Off "Each box successfully unloaded at the end warehouse will give you a random amount from X to Y (to be decided by the economy controller via ECRP). Remember if you dropped any boxes you can't get that money. You may also get a negative modifier from being late and/or dropping boxes. So it's vital you are skilled in this delivery! they don't want amateurs after all. Remember you get DIRTY money so once you get the payoff it's not over, get it safely back to a property or house to be laundered later on. hopefully, you like this system, I feel quite proud of this one. It's quite diverse gives people a lot of roles and requires skill and discipline. If you're unprepared or do it on a whim you most likely are not going to make it as there are too many obstacles. But if you prepare and are skillful you're surely get a big pay off? The reason I think this kind of thing would work is that it makes even me want to stop being a cop and go criminal! :). I also have not seen a system like this on any other server so hopefully, it's unique too. - Gun/Drug Seller This system is built with the runner system in mind, and making an assumption that either end-warehouses storing the illegal stock are player owned OR self-proclaimed gun/drug distributors act as the middlemen. -- Why should warehouses be owned? or middle men? "Simply because it's real-life situation. Typically the gun/drug smugglers are not the ones who sell to the public for a variety of reasons but most of all they base their life on smuggling and don't want the added danger of selling. Now, of course, this does not stop somebody from doing both jobs and that's fine they just need to make the decision themselves role-play wise. So in its most simple form, the distributor would buy the weapons from the warehouse (even if the warehouse is owned they must do the same) this turns the gun materials into actual guns. Now I want to state a very important pre-requisite to this which I feel is very important which I'll explain below" -- Who should be the distributor? "What we don't want it random people being able to buy weapons directly, even though we have done a lot of role-play already in getting the materials to the warehouse if a non-criminal civilian comes along that buys the guns for the sake of buying them then it's direct for them. This not only breaks realism but also removes some much needed role-play that would add relationships, struggles, territory wars etc.. So I would say that we need to script it somehow and this is my idea. I would argue that the people doing the drug/gun smuggler event could be the distributors if not then they are doing it for the distributors so they taking the smuggle risk while the group waiting at the warehouse are taking the distributors risk which I would see as a handoff of goods once payment is received or for what ever reason they are doing the smuggling. Either way we need to cater for all scenarios so once the event has been started then all the successful boxes loaded onto the truck are marked with a timestamp 6AM for example, this is when the truck set off with the boxes. Now if successful and the boxes are delivered to the warehouse at 7AM then the boxes are marked for expiration at 7:30AM. This gives the group delivering the good's 30 mins to buy the weapons from the warehouse and go store them in businesses/houses etc. Why deletion? well it stops a random chap coming along 5 hours later and buying guns from a fully stocked warehouse. -- But is this not limited? "It's only limited to counter unrealistic role-play and what could potentially lead to RDM. There is a reason we are not associating the boxes with the member who started the event. For that 30mins once delivered anybody can buy weapons from that warehouse. This means that if the criminals so wish they can secure the area and then buy the items they wish for later sale to the gun/drug sellers. Hopefully, you're seeing why I've done it this way now. If a rival gang/org was to get information on what they are doing they could of course attack the warehouse, attempt to kill/capture the smugglers and buy the weapons." -- What does this mean? "It means potentially a lot of role-play, not only will the criminals have to protect the convoy but if they wish to buy the goods after they need to have a plan in place to secure the area and then transport the goods away successfully, they need to be smart, keep it secret, they need to know the moves of any rival gangs/orgs. I think you'll agree this makes the best use of the system and allows some great diverse and exciting role-play. I think we will find most of the time it will go without a hitch (of course not counting on police here) but for those times that are not it will be glorious. -- So what about the truck itself before the warehouse? "Exactly! This is role-play after all, and this is a difficult event it's not for the faint-hearted. I believe absolutely your truck can be stolen if you happen to be careless enough. Now whoever is in the truck has the boxes and will get the blips etc. Now add that the police may be out looking for that truck and you got some pretty exciting times. A rival gang may just wish to steal the boxes for themselves, or they simply may wish to just destroy the truck so that the other gang get a message, again the possibilities are endless" -- So after all that hard work, if everything goes well, who sells? "Well that's totally down to the role-play, Having a scripted gun/drug seller job is pointless, with a system like this the player can be the decider. If you're a criminal, even a low-level criminal, hanging around in hotspots like the chop shop and you happen to hear about a shipment of guns being stored you can ask if they need to be sold, or however it is that you come to be a low-life peddler of illegal items :) the point is it should happen organically and be in-line with your characters choices. Now let's always keep in mind that I try my best to interconnect all these suggestions. If we, for example, take the house/business robbery system then we can perhaps see some good role-play there also? Maybe you're a low-level gang and want to send a message to the big boys, you've learnt that they are smuggling a huge shipment on Friday but you don't have the firepower to take them on directly, you're not stupid after all, so stealing the truck is off, and taking them by surprise at the warehouse might be too dangerous too. Hey you know they won't be selling the guns right away though, perhaps you can find out where they are storing them? Right well now if you have the location, perhaps you can rob the business/house and take the guns, hey might as well take that dirty money they have there too. What a message!" -- So in a nutshell max? "We have an event/system that handles the delivery of illegal goods which is dangerous, fun and exciting but very risky with all these possibilities you have to account for. We have a system that allows people so inclined to produce the weapons and finally, we have a system that allows for the selling/storing of illegal goods. Add into the mix Police investigations hot on your trail! or a Police convoy going to the location of a reported shootout involving a truck and you've got yourself explosions of role-play. Example Timeline. Smuggler event started for Guns > Smugglers load truck > Smugglers transport truck to warehouse > Distrobutors buy weapons from warehouse > Distrobutors store weapons/Distrobutors sell to gun sellers/Distrobutors sell directly themselves. *Police are not added to timeline as this is completely unpredictable. In the above time line for every element there are multiple different situations that can happen, add them all up and you have hundreds of possible outcomes all driven by the players on the server. Add in rivial gangs, add in snitching civlians, add in gang/org relationships doing the job for another, add in alliegences, add in the greed of an individual, add in X and this should be a system to cater for the masses for years to come, if done right, the system need not change, only the players mentality. Once again thanks for reading! ====================================================================================================================================== ========= ECONOMY ======== This one's a dozy, please see THIS ECONOMY SUGGESTION I thought it best to split it as it's a beast of its own and normally has a lot more negative feedback. thanks! ========================== Please feel free to add constructive feedback below, please also feel free to take some problems I've identified here and add your own solutions below or perhaps even make what I've suggested as a solution even better. *HISTORY - Added ====== NON-CRIMINAL END-GAME ===== - Added ======== Criminal Early-Mid Game ======== - Added some formatting to make it easier to read hopefully, sorry it's so long. My brain never stops. - Added - Gun/Drug Seller - - - Completely random section: FiveM are reported to be increasing player slots very soon. The scripts for FiveM are far superior to ECRP in terms of features and the richness they provide to RP. RAGEMP are releasing their bridge soon and I'm sure you know how much of a jump the mod offers. ECRP need to put their efforts into overdrive mode as to not be left behind. The current IP of ECRP is history, you have a fully planned and resourced police and medical department operating better than a lot of other servers with a lot more active players, you have experienced and dedicated role-players. The limiting feature of ECRP right now in comparison to other servers are the features provided. Let's make the script just as good as the OOC stuff I see.

Hey All, How do? Won't bore you with a long history but used to play and mod the original Godfather RP back in the day. Moved on to LSRP where I did many things for a long time, then created my own community for SA:MP called American Dream RP. Moved to GTAV RP creating a community with a chappy which I had to leave due to work commitments and the GTAV MP mods being shite. Ermmm yeah, remember those good old SA:MP days, wanting to try re-create some of that in GTAV looking for a decent active community with an active and creative development team. Previous characters encase somebody is lurking :) Maxis Trivium (Godfather RP) Maxis Trivium (LSRP - Police, Russian Mafia) Xan Lau (LSRP - Triads Leader) Xan Lau (ADRP - Police Chief) Did a great many things, ran and joined a lot of factions but those are my most fun times. A bit about me, I'm a software developer currently employed as a Consultant Business Analyst, I play games, 27 years of age, I play Guitar, in my spare time I build websites and setup communities. Blah blah blah. Anyway HOW DO?