Helicopter repairs for cops.

[Auxlift]

Currently in the city, there are only around 6 to 8 people qualified to repair helicopters, and most of them only clock around 5 hours. With how easy it is to damage a helicopter during takeoff and landing, as soon as the engine turns yellow, you can end up waiting anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours just trying to find a mechanic to repair it.

I think either all mechanics should be able to repair helicopters, or some kind of change needs to be made. I agree that helicopters should take damage and require refuelling, but it becomes really unenjoyable when you are unable to do anything until it gets repaired.

[Daxu]

Just as there is an in-depth RP pathway to become a licensed pilot, the same is said for mechanics to become aircraft certified. Any regular vehicle mechanic would have zero idea how to work on a rotary wing aircraft. The requirement to certify is one course.

Perhaps a recommendation could be made for mechanic factions to require aircraft certification past a certain rank. That said, we shouldn't just cut down an entire branch of RP for convenience.

It's also not that hard to keep a helicopter in working condition. Maybe for LEO operations they might make more tactical maneuvers, but TO&L is an area that could always just be done with more caution.

[Homast]

2 hours ago, Daxu said:

Perhaps a recommendation could be made for mechanic factions to require aircraft certification past a certain rank. That said, we shouldn't just cut down an entire branch of RP for convenience.

But we gave Impounds the same treatment. 

I think the mechanic shop at the Airport should work the same way as the Impound Lots but on a longer timer.

If you don't get a Mechanic down to the Airport within 15 Minutes, You can Auto-Repair your Aircraft.

Because as Auxlift said, There are few RP authorized individuals to work on Aircraft, and hedging a bet on one of them being online when you need a helicopter repaired is not realistic until this becomes more common place.

This allows the compromise of there being RP should a mechanic be available, but will also allow for gameplay to continue if the hurdle of having one of the few aircraft certified mechanics is too high.

[Bala]

It's a tone deaf addition to the server in general and all it does is unnecessarily inconvenience people.
At this stage of the server's lifespan, it should be about making the most of what people enjoy, not adding pointless hoops for them to jump through.

2 hours ago, Daxu said:

Just as there is an in-depth RP pathway to become a licensed pilot, the same is said for mechanics to become aircraft certified. Any regular vehicle mechanic would have zero idea how to work on a rotary wing aircraft. The requirement to certify is one course.

Perhaps a recommendation could be made for mechanic factions to require aircraft certification past a certain rank. That said, we shouldn't just cut down an entire branch of RP for convenience.

It's also not that hard to keep a helicopter in working condition. Maybe for LEO operations they might make more tactical maneuvers, but TO&L is an area that could always just be done with more caution.

That in-depth pathway is overly convoluted and out of place on the server. People that go to get their cars repaired don't want an authentic and realistic mechanic experience, they want to get their shit modded/repaired and dip.

As for LEO operations, sometimes it literally takes damage no matter what you do.

The people that legitimately wanted this added to the server, i hope you stand on a plug.

[Daxu]

18 minutes ago, Homast said:

But we gave Impounds the same treatment. 

I think the mechanic shop at the Airport should work the same way as the Impound Lots but on a longer timer.

If you don't get a Mechanic down to the Airport within 15 Minutes, You can Auto-Repair your Aircraft.

Because as Auxlift said, There are few RP authorized individuals to work on Aircraft, and hedging a bet on one of them being online when you need a helicopter repaired is not realistic until this becomes more common place.

This allows the compromise of there being RP should a mechanic be available, but will also allow for gameplay to continue if the hurdle of having one of the few aircraft certified mechanics is too high.

Yeah 100% I'm all for an auto timer. It should be 3 minutes or something and then you can use the auto repair. I will say that one of the primary reasons for the lack of aircraft certified mechanics was the shortsighted decision to shut down LSC, as it was the only other shop that could work on aircraft. That combined with general Bayview turnover and a bit of structure to get aircraft certified is what has led to a shortage.

Overall reforms to air divisions should happen now that there is a fleet system, where you still need training to get certified, but you can do it right as a Junior mechanic or something, instead of Senior or Lead (I think that's what it currently is for BV).

 

8 minutes ago, Bala said:

It's a tone deaf addition to the server in general and all it does is unnecessarily inconvenience people.
At this stage of the server's lifespan, it should be about making the most of what people enjoy, not adding pointless hoops for them to jump through.

So following that mentality, would you also support getting rid of: firearms licensing (just go back to paying a fee at the police desk with no felonies), driving/trucking licensing (just an unnecessary hoop jumping tutorial), every procedural department within SASG (like BPB, too much waiting and process, anyone should just be able to build and buy any property anywhere without any oversight), Weazel's advertising division (too much unneeded waiting for posters/ads, etc., just post them yourself like the old days with a slash command and get the "selling waterguns" ads), DCC (too much unnecessary waiting for a ride, just have citibee spawns everywhere), the repair/mod duty of mech factions (just standing around looking at /me's), and more?

I am not tying to introduce a bunch of whataboutism in the above, only trying to highlight that a major point of an RP server is to use your imagination to produce something that might not have full-fledged script functionality or that physically needs certain scripted actions to proceed with the act. For example, if we made it so that your control inputs are randomized in a helicopter/plane until you receive training and a license, then there's a hard need. Right now, it's not baked into the game function, so there's the argument that it's a "pointless hoop to jump through". In reality though, that being an NRP rulebreak sets the groundwork for much more storytelling and gameplay opportunities, like criminal investigations, private flight schools (though underutilized), unregistered operating of an aircraft or helipad even with a license, and more from just that one example. 

There is enjoyment that I have as a player and character (that I actually wrote a story for) to perform the training duties for pilots and mechanics within SAAA. I don't do the training everyday, but if I did I'm sure it'd get a bit tedious like much of mechanic RP has during phases of my playtime, taking LOA's to reset. I don't think a healthy mindset for a role-playing server is to diminish those in-character structures that add slight realism.

Of course though, balance is needed. That's why it's 4 classes and $100k to be a helicopter pilot, and not a multi-week long training operation. Just like the 24hr wait period was lifted. With this take, I'm also all for discussions and tweaking things to help them get more engagement from the community, but not outright axe them.

 

[Trevor Zelias]

12 hours ago, Auxlift said:

With how easy it is to damage a helicopter during takeoff and landing,

Just dont full send it to land, and just carefully take-off. It isnt that hard lil bro. 

[Bala]

Quote

So following that mentality, would you also support getting rid of: firearms licensing (just go back to paying a fee at the police desk with no felonies), driving/trucking licensing (just an unnecessary hoop jumping tutorial), every procedural department within SASG (like BPB, too much waiting and process, anyone should just be able to build and buy any property anywhere without any oversight), Weazel's advertising division (too much unneeded waiting for posters/ads, etc., just post them yourself like the old days with a slash command and get the "selling waterguns" ads), DCC (too much unnecessary waiting for a ride, just have citibee spawns everywhere), the repair/mod duty of mech factions (just standing around looking at /me's), and more?

• Would I support getting rid of firearms licensing? If the script implemented the same set of restrictions as the division does, yes.
• Would I support getting rid of the driving/trucking licensing? Yes, because driving is a core aspect of GTA, there is no skill live.
• Every procedural department within SASG? I would support getting rid of 90% of SASG because it's flannel.
• Weazel's Advertising Division? No, I wouldn't support that because it's the most important part of Weazel's operations.
• Get rid of DCC? The concept of waiting for a ride? No, I'd go with an uber type deal where if people meet certain criteria they can use their own vehicle as a taxi. But, the faction? Yes, it died wih LilyMay.

The difference with this @Daxu is that Benny's and Bayview don't need this to survive. We've literally just dropped a bunch of new cars and there is about 80 new ones to come, there will always be a steady stream of customers for both while people still play the server.

Ultimately, this is an unnecessary burden on the law enforcement factions and takes away from their role in the server. I'm sure some of the anti-cop weirdos love it, but because it's a kneecapping for the police rather than anything positive.

I know the system isn't going away now, to our detriment, but there needs to be changes to it to make it viable for everyone.

[Danny_V]

what happened to IC actions have IC consequences?

If someome crashed it into maze bank tower a few times too many and your enitre helicopter fleet need repairs then .... guess your faction doesnt have access to heli's unless they repair them... 

It's not like I get my helicopter auto-repaired as a civilian if I Wkey it into a building. 
just.. you know ... fly more sensibly, maybe?

God forbid you have realistic consequences to crashing a multi million dollar helicopter on a roleplay server...

The issue as stated is that there's not enough people being able to repair a heli.
You dont fix that by having a magical repairbutton that essentially circumvents the entire fleet maintenance system (for a subset of the playerbase)
If anything that will be further insentive for mechanics to NOT become eligible for helicoper repairs...

the original suggestion of having more people be qualified to repair them is the only real solution. 

Maybe set up a mechanic/maintenance division within pd/sd? I mean DCC did it
(having a mechanic division for fleet maintenance)
so... i dont see no reason why cops wouldn't be able to do that

there's so many possible solutions to there not being enough rotary-wing mechanics, but a script command /autorepair aint it. 

I think the LEO factions should explore this IC issue further and take it up with their command. A quick search on the gov website resulted in this find, and it looks like 90% of the groundwork is already laid for people to become certified as a helicopter mechanic:
https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=159254

[Daxu]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

I know the system isn't going away now, to our detriment, but there needs to be changes to it to make it viable for everyone.

I can 100% get behind that sentiment. The fleet update was dropped and everyone scrambled to adjust and learn the new system, I know as I saw it within FM. I would even advocate that helicopters should be given some type of temporary exception given the lacking framework within mech factions to provide the needed repairs at this current moment, and especially if in their LEO operations they actually take damage for no reason (maybe mechanical stress of aggressive maneuvers could be argued, but that's even too realistic for me given we have cars that can peg 240 and not blow out their engines). 

2 hours ago, Bala said:

The difference with this @Daxu is that Benny's and Bayview don't need this to survive.

While true, I think additional opportunities for roleplay, especially if we rework the aircraft certifications, will not just let the factions survive. It's a new area of RP for a regular mechanic, bringing new stuff to engage with, handling protocols, logging requirements, and whatnot. This stuff might look opaque on the outside, but what little information SAAA does request routinely are literally the only things we have when performing investigations of our own. Having been PD for so long I'm sure you can understand the support that detectives need within the server's environment. I can't claim to have any idea on most of it, but surely its all gathered IC through channels of actual investigative work. 

I also think there could be a bit of relaxation in some areas that would actually make it not completely dumpster-fucking your character should you decide to use an aircraft for nefarious purposes. I don't mean like a gunship but even just an escape vehicle of some type. 

Regarding the hypotheticals I posed about removing a bunch of server mechanics/factions/duties, while I can understand the reasoning behind some, I won't comment on it further as we likely just have opposing views on what brings a decent time to a video game that is (in some way) mimicking real life systems and social structures. 

2 hours ago, Bala said:

Ultimately, this is an unnecessary burden on the law enforcement factions and takes away from their role in the server. I'm sure some of the anti-cop weirdos love it, but because it's a kneecapping for the police rather than anything positive.

I hear and agree with that, hopefully I made my support of fixing the issue clear in my above response. As someone in SAAA you will 100% see me on the side of making it a good and engaging experience for civilian and LEO players.

1 hour ago, Danny_V said:

You dont fix that by having a magical repairbutton that essentially circumvents the entire fleet maintenance system (for a subset of the playerbase)

I also agree with this sentiment. There needs to be an update to the existing IC structures server-wide as they now carry more weight (rather, they carry the amount of weight they should have from the beginning) for many groups of players.