God Mode LSPD is unacceptable

[Doyouwantahug]

I have browsed and browsed the forums up and down.  I have seen many reports of Police getting away with so much that shouldn't happen, and I have seen many complaints about the LSPD.

From what I have noticed the LSPD pretty much get away with everything from unrealistic actions (bringing SWAT to arrest someone for parking tickets, being able to  break Fear RP because they are police officers, and having an unlimited arsenal of weapons at their disposal with no repercussions. )

 

Unrealistic Actions

I have personally IC seen a swat van roll up on myself and other fishing with SMG's, Carbines, Vests, and more just because they saw someone well known for having a large amount of speeding tickets in the area (it was a lot of speeding tickets).  Another instance was today we were having a meeting and SWAT showed up to our location with snipers on roofs, helicopters, 2-3 swat vans, about 5-6 cruisers, and arrested a member for speeding tickets again.  During this arrest they provided no information about why he was being arrested, why our meeting was interrupted, and why they rolled so heavy on us for simple tickets.

Breaking Fear RP

I have seen cops severely out numbered, out gunned, and in a horrible situation break fear RP simply because they do not want to be taken hostage, or because they believe they can because they are cops (I have been told this by them before.)  I unfortunately cannot record due to lag but if you browse the player reports you will see many reports on officers breaking this rule.  My solution for this would be a simple update in the rules saying police cannot break fear RP as well, or when they are joining they must be told just because they are cops they cannot break these rules.

 

Lastly my least favorite and most hopeful a change could be made.....

Godmode Police

The officers in this city has everything available to them for nothing.  They get a helicopter with 200% fuel, I mean come on how is that even fair. they get free carbines for swat and ammo and have to pay nothing for them.  These SWAT members are already pretty much unkillable with their helmets, body shields, air support, back up etc.  Why should they have access to these insane advantages for nothing?  I understand police and SWAT should have an advantage over criminals anyone who doesn't think that way should definitely reconsider.  But being able to withdraw Carbines, Body Armor, and all their other tools for nothing is crazy.  I believe the Police department should have a faction treasury just like others, and when they withdraw a carbine it takes money out of the treasury so that way they aren't able to spam ammo and do whatever they please with no repercussions (especially since cops guns are unlootable).  Same goes with armor these cops come heavily geared with armor and can just get a new one after a fight is over.  

Now for the police having a faction treasury if they did obviously the police department should receive funding from the city just like we all receive a salary, they should have access to their weapons but after a long fight with a gang they should not be able to just straight up re supply for nothing.  These officers simply have nothing to fear they die with their carbine, so be it they withdraw another, I die with my AK with 100 ammo and attachments, I lose thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of items.  

I have also noticed officers when their vehicle is lost/stolen/or abandoned due to being shot they simply just spawn it back at the PD, this should not happen either they should have to go pick it up from wherever it is located.

 

These are my complaints/suggestions.  Anyone that would like to add, revise, or provide constructive criticism please feel free.

 

[flow]

15 minutes ago, Doyouwantahug said:

Unrealistic Actions

I have personally IC seen a swat van roll up on myself and other fishing with SMG's, Carbines, Vests, and more just because they saw someone well known for having a large amount of speeding tickets in the area (it was a lot of speeding tickets).  Another instance was today we were having a meeting and SWAT showed up to our location with snipers on roofs, helicopters, 2-3 swat vans, about 5-6 cruisers, and arrested a member for speeding tickets again.  During this arrest they provided no information about why he was being arrested, why our meeting was interrupted, and why they rolled so heavy on us for simple tickets.

What you're describing is SWAT executing a warrant on someone, what exactly is the wrongdoing in that? If someone amasses a huge number of speeding tickets they fail to pay, they'll have warrants out for their arrest. These are organized operations that require planning and proper communications and that's where SWAT comes in. You want to extract someone without having them put up a fight, you roll up in numbers. Happens IRL all the time.

 

18 minutes ago, Doyouwantahug said:

Breaking Fear RP

I have seen cops severely out numbered, out gunned, and in a horrible situation break fear RP simply because they do not want to be taken hostage, or because they believe they can because they are cops (I have been told this by them before.)  I unfortunately cannot record due to lag but if you browse the player reports you will see many reports on officers breaking this rule.  My solution for this would be a simple update in the rules saying police cannot break fear RP as well, or when they are joining they must be told just because they are cops they cannot break these rules.

Cops aren't exempt from breaking ANY server rules and if you believe this has happened, report it. You say you see these reports and nothing happens, but where are they? Cops get punished all the time, just like any other player does. Your claim isn't viable, you've got no proof for any of it.

 

19 minutes ago, Doyouwantahug said:

Godmode Police

The officers in this city has everything available to them for nothing.  They get a helicopter with 200% fuel, I mean come on how is that even fair. they get free carbines for swat and ammo and have to pay nothing for them.  These SWAT members are already pretty much unkillable with their helmets, body shields, air support, back up etc.  Why should they have access to these insane advantages for nothing?  I understand police and SWAT should have an advantage over criminals anyone who doesn't think that way should definitely reconsider.  But being able to withdraw Carbines, Body Armor, and all their other tools for nothing is crazy.  I believe the Police department should have a faction treasury just like others, and when they withdraw a carbine it takes money out of the treasury so that way they aren't able to spam ammo and do whatever they please with no repercussions (especially since cops guns are unlootable).  Same goes with armor these cops come heavily geared with armor and can just get a new one after a fight is over.  

Now for the police having a faction treasury if they did obviously the police department should receive funding from the city just like we all receive a salary, they should have access to their weapons but after a long fight with a gang they should not be able to just straight up re supply for nothing.  These officers simply have nothing to fear they die with their carbine, so be it they withdraw another, I die with my AK with 100 ammo and attachments, I lose thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of items.  

I have also noticed officers when their vehicle is lost/stolen/or abandoned due to being shot they simply just spawn it back at the PD, this should not happen either they should have to go pick it up from wherever it is located.

Do you honestly believe that in a city rampant with gangs and gun violence, a police department would ever run out of ammo or weapons or body armor? In a city where everyone has access to heavy weapons just by strolling down the sidewalk and being asked ten times if they want to buy a gun, the police department is supposed to be barely able to respond to these threats? Of course, guns are "free" for cops, but they aren't taking them home. The weapons are issued and returned after the shift. No government on earth would allow their police force to be outgunned by thugs, ever. 

You're making it sound like cops just get heavy weapons and run loose, that's absolutely not true. You have not the slither of an idea what it takes to be certified for heavy weapons, how many hours of training each and everyone has to go through, written tests and evaluation sessions before they're even allowed anything other than a handgun and taser. To get to a point where you have access to heavy weapons takes a cop longer than most of the factions half-life on this server. To come here and make the assumptions and accusations is just plain disrespectful. People in the PD wait for months and go through copious amounts of training to be let into SWAT and continue to train every week to uphold that status. While you log on and buy an AK a minute later, the cop you're complaining about has sunk hundreds of hours into arrest reports, impound reports, field training sessions, and evaluations before even coming close to a heavy weapon. And when they do finally have it, they're bound by yet more regulations and protocols that surround the use of it. 

You have no idea what any of the things you complain about actually take to be certified for, yet you just assume it's too easy and cops run around with heavy weapons for the fun of it. 

[Osborn]

Quote

Unrealistic Actions

I have personally IC seen a swat van roll up on myself and other fishing with SMG's, Carbines, Vests, and more just because they saw someone well known for having a large amount of speeding tickets in the area (it was a lot of speeding tickets).  Another instance was today we were having a meeting and SWAT showed up to our location with snipers on roofs, helicopters, 2-3 swat vans, about 5-6 cruisers, and arrested a member for speeding tickets again.  During this arrest they provided no information about why he was being arrested, why our meeting was interrupted, and why they rolled so heavy on us for simple tickets.

If you mean the Irish Tavern, they came for Jonathan Allen who had a murder charge on him. The other member, (Dwayne I believe) was just a bonus. Otherwise, I'm not sure - but SWAT's deployed for any warrants deemed dangerous, e.g. known gang members / dangerous individual with prior records of violent crime, If a dangerous individual has an outstanding warrant on them, SWAT will come because of that sole reason.

 

Quote

Breaking Fear RP

I have seen cops severely out numbered, out gunned, and in a horrible situation break fear RP simply because they do not want to be taken hostage, or because they believe they can because they are cops (I have been told this by them before.)  I unfortunately cannot record due to lag but if you browse the player reports you will see many reports on officers breaking this rule.  My solution for this would be a simple update in the rules saying police cannot break fear RP as well, or when they are joining they must be told just because they are cops they cannot break these rules.

If Police Officers are breaking our Fear RP rule, I encourage you to report them, they have to abide by the rules like any player and they get punished if they don't follow the rules. Although I am not familiar with it being common that officers are reported and punished for breaking server rules, we do take it quite seriously in the LSPD when they get punished for breaking server rules and it has led to suspensions/demotions & discharges.

This is the Fear RP rules that LSPD should follow, like any other player:

Quote

13. Fear Roleplay (FRP)
● Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life.
● Examples, where your character’s life is considered to be in direct danger:
• When you are on foot or bike and a weapon is aimed at you at close range.
• When the engine of your vehicle is stalled and a weapon is aimed at you at close range.
• When the attacker lowers their weapon to type or roleplay, your life remains in direct danger.
• Driving a vehicle in an active shootout more than once without the intent of protecting a friend,
fleeing with it, or using it as cover.
● Examples, where your character’s life is NOT considered to be in direct danger:
• When you are in a vehicle which engine is not stalled.
• When you have a firearm drawn and are facing the other person before they attacked.
• When the attacker’s view is obstructed by an object or when they turn their back on you.
● As a victim, whose life is in direct danger:
• You must display reasonable value for your life and comply with the demands of your attacker.
• You cannot call 911 or call your friends or allies to aid you.

 

Quote

Godmode Police

The officers in this city has everything available to them for nothing.  They get a helicopter with 200% fuel, I mean come on how is that even fair. they get free carbines for swat and ammo and have to pay nothing for them.  These SWAT members are already pretty much unkillable with their helmets, body shields, air support, back up etc.  Why should they have access to these insane advantages for nothing?  I understand police and SWAT should have an advantage over criminals anyone who doesn't think that way should definitely reconsider.  But being able to withdraw Carbines, Body Armor, and all their other tools for nothing is crazy.  I believe the Police department should have a faction treasury just like others, and when they withdraw a carbine it takes money out of the treasury so that way they aren't able to spam ammo and do whatever they please with no repercussions (especially since cops guns are unlootable).  Same goes with armor these cops come heavily geared with armor and can just get a new one after a fight is over.  

Now for the police having a faction treasury if they did obviously the police department should receive funding from the city just like we all receive a salary, they should have access to their weapons but after a long fight with a gang they should not be able to just straight up re supply for nothing.  These officers simply have nothing to fear they die with their carbine, so be it they withdraw another, I die with my AK with 100 ammo and attachments, I lose thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of items.  

I have also noticed officers when their vehicle is lost/stolen/or abandoned due to being shot they simply just spawn it back at the PD, this should not happen either they should have to go pick it up from wherever it is located.

• All of LSPD's vehicles only come with 100% fuel, unlike some factions like DCC. When we have a helicopter out (which is not always, unfortunately), they often have to return and refuel. 
• SWAT members are not unkillable, their protection is just for visuals and they are almost like your regular officer. I don't think you look at the bigger picture, there are many, many incidents each day where LSPD is completely wiped. SWAT members rarely get time to go into their SWAT gear when responding to an active situation, but you will commonly see 5-6 officers or less if they are doing a pre-planned operation. I encourage you to join the LSPD and you'll get a first-hand experience how our body armor means very little.
• The Police Department already has a faction treasury that receives funding from the government. If the developers want to script it so that weapons and ammunition are taken from the funding, that is no problem. Funding from the government is based on all income from the server, all legal factions are funded by the government. You do have to understand though that in a developed country (that we RP being in), a Police Department in a city like Los Santos wouldn't run around under geared or without ammunition, there will always be sufficient funding to cover those expenses.
• A very small portion of the Police Department has access to a bigger gun than a shotgun, and getting access to a shotgun requires at least 1,5 months in PD with a no disciplinary record, good activity, and performance. And even so, they need to apply for certification and are held to heavy regulations. The portion of PD that has access to bigger guns is SWAT & Sergeants+ (Sergeants has Carbine and MP5, no sniper), the only one who has a Sniper is SWAT.
• Talking more about regulations and procedures, to get into SWAT you are heavily regulated and forced to attend weekly training to keep your weapons certifications. It also takes a long time to get into SWAT, and recruitment is very competitive. We have about 9 Sergeants right now, it's very difficult to become one and it will take you months of being in PD and doing all the extra responsibilities to get there.
• Due to script limitations, officers have no other means than respawning their car. Realistically, police cars (and most company cars these days) are equipped with GPS systems so that the car can be tracked 24/7, PD can't even use the command that players use to track their own cars.

There was a lot brought up, I think I covered most of it. I think at the end of the day, you should try to join PD and see for yourself how things work. It's a heavily regulated faction with long and detailed processes to advance into different branches of the faction.

[Doyouwantahug]

Hey @flow constructive critisizm doesn't mean insults and being rude.  Just a heads up.

 

Thank you @FatherOsborn there is a lot I did not know.  Your response has brought a lot to light, seems you do a good job running things and thank you for the great response.  I would like to join PD on another character eventually would be nice to see how things work on the other end.  Few comments/questions I have regarding your response.  The respawning of vehicles you said is sometimes the only thing that works, but you mentioned the 24/7 GPS tracker.  So when a cop car is stolen why do they respawn the vehicle instead of tracking it down with other officers?  

Also I do think the guns especially the heavies should come out of faction budget, but as regards to the weapon training to earn the right to use them I think that sounds like a hard well thought way to get there.  

Once again thanks FatherOsborn for the response always enjoy my interactions with you and was sad you didn't eat the donuts I provided to you during the raid haha.

[st3fan333]

Cops definitely abuse their power, there’s simply no doubt about that. 

 

Example of this is a cop ramming me outside of the LS Bank whilst I was typing. So basically I was stood next to my car outside of LS Bank with a cop parked up behind me. A car raced up the hill, flew through the air and hit the cop car. This car then proceeded to flee and so the cop began to pursuit. I was still stood there typing my message and with no warning or even attempt to communicate with me the cop just rammed through me. How is that good RP... especially from members of the server that should be setting an example. 

 

Before you say that I was blocking the cop... I wasn’t, this all happened in a split second and I’m a taxi driver not a criminal. However the cop did acknowledge that I was there because he stopped and then decided that the best way to go is to go through me.

Edited April 1, 2019 by st3fan333

[playeronesvk]

Go and ask about ppl about Eclipse RP cops are GODS.. besically this is playground for cops and we are just NPCs... with no power.. 

[Kris]

This was covered in extensive detail by FatherOsborn. Archived!