Allow Anyone to use Smugglers and Intel

[Sam Axe]

after the new update, it makes more sense than ever to give "mostly" free access to people. lately some gangs are only importing and then members are scamming people instead of offloading items and keeping them for themselves. sense to acquire any of the importable items you have to go through a gang that can then choose to not give these items to people, its borderline idiotic to not fix this. 

now dont get me wrong, i understand that gangs need something they can monopolize. (ill get to that in a moment) but for a vast majority of the community people started off by making and selling drugs. now with 300-400 people knowing where the labs are, they are being raided constantly (partially by gangs) for plants or simply just to rob new players trying to learn. (ooc, while watching a lab today i saw 15+ players today all trying to rob each other at the labs and laughed my a$$ off) thats why im suggesting to change the system to this: if you find a smuggler you can import illegal items but, as a higher financial cost and face limited quantity / items. (this also wouldnt effect the gangs import power)

this would be a 200%-400% mark up more than official gang members can import for and proceeds would go directly to the gang's treasury. this removes 2 issues, 1 people that cant find members, and 2: some members of gangs scamming in drastically unrealistic levels. lets be honest, a drug table in real life isnt only obtainable by gangs. the only thing's you cant legally get are the drugs themselves which you can legally buy the ingredients for. ingame what your buying is a plastic table with a burner and various glass bottles. this doesnt hurt gangs whatsoever as its literally free money for just giving these people access to use the gangs resources to import items. people would also be limited in how much they can import compared to gang counterparts (like 1-2 tables per 4 irl hours etc). now, to counteract concerns about people having access to dangerous weapons that can turn the city into a gta online lobby. certain items would still be only for gangs, like heavy weapons. this allows gangs to have control over heavy weapons and allows enough access to small time criminals that it levels the playing field. this is the best option as it benefits gangs by increasing revenue for them for the same amount or even less work and gives a option to people to pay way less but have a increased risk of getting scammed or pay more and guaranteed to get the items you want or need that gangs are either hoarding for themselves, or just dont have time to deal with. this also would fix the gangs having a monopoly and make them compete financially with each other trying to lower prices and outbid each other.

finally a fun and entertaining idea i want to suggest, allow anyone to interrogate smugglers to gain intel. its kind of dumb we have rules about fear rp where people have been banned because they refused to give safe pin codes to people after being taken hostage or shot, but an ai doesnt care that 5+ people are demanding him tell you a ball park idea where a shipment is coming in while guns are pointed at him because "if i die my friends will come get you." are you serious? in a game if this happened with a real player that dude would be gone so fast he would be like the roadrunner. just because your part of a gang doesnt mean you have protection from fear and neither should the ai. now if everyone could get the intel, gangs would have people constantly raid the drops. so im suggesting this, you have to have bolt cutters, a drill, or knife. each would have a certain amount of time where you would interrogate to try and get the information (just like picking locks), if your not interrupted by the end of that amount of time he will then give you the general area where the crate is coming in. this will make gangs stay in and patrol areas they control acting as protection (just like real life) and increases gang activity.

 

heres the pros and cons of these as i view them, 

Pros: stops some gang members from scamming large groups of players with no chance of retaliation, stops people from camping drug labs only to rob people as it will increase people cooking at home, force gangs to be more active in the supply and demand side for unofficial gangs or small criminals, make gangs patrol sections of areas they own to prevent intel leaks, make the game more fun and balanced for small criminals who are starting out

 

Cons: large gangs will have to be more active and set up patrols in areas they own, this will increase how spread out a gang is which means less members hanging out together, less black-market runs as some will rather just to pay the fee and not even risk getting scammed and be willing to take the massive financial hit, police would need to increase patrols in those areas to counteract gangs increasing activity which will result in more police vs gang escalation situations.

 

anyway, hope you guys let me know what you like or dont like and maybe make your own suggestions to this. im sure the vast majority of the community can defiantly agree on most of these things and maybe even some gangs will too. remember this before trying to argue for one side or the other tho. "you cant play cowboys and indians without the indians and if every time you play, the cowboys win because they have 50 cal machineguns. eventually the indians give up and stop playing. and then there is no game or fun for anyone. dont argue for your experience, argue for the community experience."

[Sam Axe]

a good example that the scamming is getting out of control was a post on discord 30 mins before i wrote this: I was trying to buy something from two dudes and i am a new player and i gave them the cash and then they held me at gunpoint and ran off. I thought you can not rob or scam new players am i right (he was buying something only gangs can get) and here are a couple other quotes. "I mean, what's the limit of robbing/scamming a player? I can rob as much as I want?". "everybody offering me cars and guns off the street. Are the car offers a scam/legal?" all of those 3 in 1 week and countless others are at the result of gang scams

Edited August 14, 2020 by Sam Axe

[Dor]

I completely disagree with this suggestion, I find this suggestion very stupid as it seems like you’re trying to create some shortcuts for yourself. Illegal deals are at your own risk and you should be careful with who you trust. 

[Sam Axe]

 

I completely disagree with this suggestion, I find this suggestion very stupid as it seems like you’re trying to create some shortcuts for yourself. Illegal deals are at your own risk and you should be careful with who you trust. 

I think you just missed the entire point of the post. The problem isn't about being scammed, which is the fault of the party that gave the money. The point is that gangs have way too much control with Imports and are literally killing the experience for anybody wanting to do anything remotely fun on the criminal side. If you want to get a table? You have to go through a gang who will not give you one unless you join them most of the time. Want an illegal firearm? Same exact thing, want anything important that can help your experience be more fun? Too bad. Then they will just trick new players into giving them all of their money ruining the experience and then they never come back. What is happening now is literally the equivalent of if the police department told people nobody is allowed to drive cars anymore unless they get a permit from the police department (not the dmv anymore) then charge people $15,000 to take a driving test. Then after you pay the cop they just run off with your money and say too bad. And then people like you tell those people, well you never should have trusted somebody who you didn't know. The problem is when there is no alternative like in this case people and more specifically new players have to take that risk. Because the only other option is to run everywhere instead of being able to drive

Edited August 14, 2020 by Sam Axe

[nikoh]

I think the idea isnt terrible, as long as the mark up prices you'd have to pay were at least 4 or 5 times the normal amount, as well as an increased risk of your order being compromised by the reigning faction that owns the turf. 

But bare in mind your suggestion basically allows anyone to get a heavy weapon which realistically wouldnt be as easy as the script may make it. Not only that, but it would affect the server economy/crime rate/realism and much more. 
 

-1 overall. I think its a bit deeper than just letting people get guns cus official gangs have more to fight over with this update. 

If you want to join the fun I implore you to start a gang or organization and compete in the crim roleplay to get official status, the more official gangs now, the merrier. 

[Sam Axe]

 

I think the idea isnt terrible, as long as the mark up prices you'd have to pay were at least 4 or 5 times the normal amount, as well as an increased risk of your order being compromised by the reigning faction that owns the turf. 

But bare in mind your suggestion basically allows anyone to get a heavy weapon which realistically wouldnt be as easy as the script may make it. Not only that, but it would affect the server economy/crime rate/realism and much more. 
 

-1 overall. I think its a bit deeper than just letting people get guns cus official gangs have more to fight over with this update. 

If you want to join the fun I implore you to start a gang or organization and compete in the crim roleplay to get official status, the more official gangs now, the merrier. 

I think you might have missed part where I covered that "certain items would still be only for gangs, like heavy weapons"  The only thing that would change from the current system about weapons with what I'm suggesting would be the possibility of maybe allowing people to import just the regular pistol in the game but it would only be like one or two at a time. The most important thing that really needs to be at least somewhat publicly available is the tables and some form of illegal handgun in the system is mostly what I'm suggesting.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Sam Axe

[Msato]

-1

The initial complaint of a price markup / scamming is fully an IC issue, act smart if you don't want scammed.

It makes no sense that the average criminal can walk up to a smuggler and purchase themselves anything from the catalogue. Even if they only offered limited items, these smugglers are dealers within gang controlled territories and it's to simulate a gang having it's own supplier / connect.

Perhaps people should make connections to the gangs ICly and then use that as a way to gain the benefits, such as discounted prices, ensuring you wont be scammed and more. But that is once again an IC issue.

[Sam Axe]

 

-1

The initial complaint of a price markup / scamming is fully an IC issue, act smart if you don't want scammed.

It makes no sense that the average criminal can walk up to a smuggler and purchase themselves anything from the catalogue. Even if they only offered limited items, these smugglers are dealers within gang controlled territories and it's to simulate a gang having it's own supplier / connect.

Perhaps people should make connections to the gangs ICly and then use that as a way to gain the benefits, such as discounted prices, ensuring you wont be scammed and more. But that is once again an IC issue.

The problem is that even when acting smart you still get can get scammed. Especially when there is only one way to obtain an item that is probably one of the only realistic ways for people who don't want to commit to a government job to make money with. And actually it does make total sense that a Smuggler would have access to those things. You can look up hundreds of documentaries about Gun Runners, drug smugglers, and all kinds of major organizations like that. The Guadalajara cartel used to smugle Pablo Escobar's cocaine with Pablo's  rivals that was made in Colombia and then shipped to the United States ( this was when all of the Colombia cartels were at War by the way) The only time in real life when Smugglers work for one organization is usually when they are in a full-scale war and forced to pick a side and even then, many still have several resources and only stopped selling to other gangs. And finally, people do try to make connections to the gangs but the problem is that for many people two roadblocks hard. The first is that usually gto et the gang to be serious about supplying you with tables or equipment you have to order a very large order. I mean several hundred thousands of dollars worth and then the majority of the time they don't want to do it because they think it's a sting for it to be that much money. By the time most players reach that kind of point they no longer need the tables either. And then the second roadblock is if that all goes totally fine the person usually is not willing to hand over that much money  and risk being scammed  after grinding that long to make that much. There needs to be some kind of system in place to allow people in the in between spot where gangs are too busy to deal with or they are so insignificant and dont matter to the gang in the first place to have some sort of chance. I have personally reached out to several gangs and offered far above market value (60k a table once) but they never want to do business with myself or many others. The only way I was able to get in was blackmailing somebody who I had caught in the act with calling the police. All the gangs seem interested in is doing shipments and keeping everything for themselves since they can make more money making these things themselves rather than selling the tools to the community. That's why the average criminal needs to have some access

[nikoh]

 

I think you might have missed part where I covered that "certain items would still be only for gangs, like heavy weapons"  The only thing that would change from the current system about weapons with what I'm suggesting would be the possibility of maybe allowing people to import just the regular pistol in the game but it would only be like one or two at a time. The most important thing that really needs to be at least somewhat publicly available is the tables and some form of illegal handgun in the system is mostly what I'm suggesting.

There are static labs that function. Players don’t need to be able to buy a drug table. And the Pistol .50 is a two-shot pistol. Don’t see what else “civilians” need

[Sam Axe]

 

There are static labs that function. Players don’t need to be able to buy a drug table. And the Pistol .50 is a two-shot pistol. Don’t see what else “civilians” need

The static labs are overwhelmed. Today was the first time I had decided to go down there since tables were added in and literally within a couple minutes of getting there I was robbed, then a car showed up which robbed the guy robbing me where they told me to leave, followed by more people showing up in two cars that robbed them resulting in a shootout that caused a swat raid on 20+ people. I don't think somebody who's new to the game would enjoy that very much... or at least the ones who want to roleplay and get a  realistic experience. And .50's wouldn't be added either, like I said. the only illegal weapon they could get would be regular pistols. The single Beretta pistol that you could get at ammunition would be the only gun you could buy illegally unless you're part of a gang. That way if new people are unable to get a gun license for whatever reason and had the money and are new players they can still defend themselves

[Dor]

 

I think you just missed the entire point of the post. The problem isn't about being scammed, which is the fault of the party that gave the money. The point is that gangs have way too much control with Imports and are literally killing the experience for anybody wanting to do anything remotely fun on the criminal side. If you want to get a table? You have to go through a gang who will not give you one unless you join them most of the time. Want an illegal firearm? Same exact thing, want anything important that can help your experience be more fun? Too bad. Then they will just trick new players into giving them all of their money ruining the experience and then they never come back. What is happening now is literally the equivalent of if the police department told people nobody is allowed to drive cars anymore unless they get a permit from the police department (not the dmv anymore) then charge people $15,000 to take a driving test. Then after you pay the cop they just run off with your money and say too bad. And then people like you tell those people, well you never should have trusted somebody who you didn't know. The problem is when there is no alternative like in this case people and more specifically new players have to take that risk. Because the only other option is to run everywhere instead of being able to drive

I don't understand what's the issue about the thing you said. The situation you provided here is completely IC matter and no need to change the script because of it. A new player is a guy who has no knowledge about the criminal side of the city, instead of just trying to purchase stuff the easy way, you should make contacts, meet people and ask them to explain things to you to obtain the information and knowledge you need. Nobody other than gangs should have access  to the smugglers, when obtaining an official slot you are expected to be responsible and distribute import items back to the server, this is one of the main job of illegal criminal organizations. 

And again, you are repeating that gangs are scamming and asking for more cash. Get the knowledge about the street prices before you go and try to buy something, get the knowledge about things and show the dealer that you are familiar with everything and he can't trick you and I am completely sure that he'll sell you for the normal price. Everyone wants to make money and this is completely IC if he decides to charge more, and if you're not happy with the price go and find somebody else who is selling, there are so many. 

Overhaul I think this suggestion is just here to create a shortcut for yourself or other players who are lazy to work their ass and join a gang to obtain the privilege they want.

[Sam Axe]

 

I don't understand what's the issue about the thing you said. The situation you provided here is completely IC matter and no need to change the script because of it. A new player is a guy who has no knowledge about the criminal side of the city, instead of just trying to purchase stuff the easy way, you should make contacts, meet people and ask them to explain things to you to obtain the information and knowledge you need. Nobody other than gangs should have access  to the smugglers, when obtaining an official slot you are expected to be responsible and distribute import items back to the server, this is one of the main job of illegal criminal organizations. 

And again, you are repeating that gangs are scamming and asking for more cash. Get the knowledge about the street prices before you go and try to buy something, get the knowledge about things and show the dealer that you are familiar with everything and he can't trick you and I am completely sure that he'll sell you for the normal price. Everyone wants to make money and this is completely IC if he decides to charge more, and if you're not happy with the price go and find somebody else who is selling, there are so many. 

Overhaul I think this suggestion is just here to create a shortcut for yourself or other players who are lazy to work their ass and join a gang to obtain the privilege they want.

theres that (join a gang part again), gangs are capped now so most arent taking new members. the problem again is simple. when 1 group controls everything and have all the power, it kills the experience for the rest. the gang im in on 1 account does nothing more than go to labs, take plants, tell people to go away while we harvest, go back and cook. its boring af for gangs now. so if your going to argue that im trying to make a shortcut for myself and others is just ignorant. your logic here is on the level of telling people who get stuff stolen in the apartments because of an exploit now "oh, you shouldnt have bought an apartment or atleast you should have custom built the entire thing for 40k and never go to sleep so people cant do the impossible" they should patch the problem, not tell people to find a way to counter it just to make the 40 people doing the exploit happy

[Xoza]

Would love to contribute, but could you reduce your.. lengthy suggest to a defined list of suggestions. Or are there suggestions already out there you can notate we may contribute to and support in relation? If we want to make suggestions our team will look over, it should be easy to understand and quick to read as there are many.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Xoza