Judicial Branch Ideas: High Risk, High Reward

[Demonmit1]

SAJB is an integral component of the more serious side of the Crim vs Cops aspect of the server. It's a separate third party that can independently review decisions made by other law enforcement factions, which is vital protection for non-LEO players on the server. Considering how valuable this system is, it is wildly understaffed and under-supported. Let's go over the issues, and we can discuss potential fixes to the system as a community and see if SAJB high command and LFM find anything interesting from the discussion to implement! While a vast majority of this would be considered "in character," a functioning SAJB affects the general player base as a whole to such a degree that it should be discussed OOCly.

The faction's overarching issue is that SAJB court cases are painfully slow. While this is the main issue, I want to explain many causes.

1. Lack of motivated players to join the faction
2. defendant players flooding the faction with low-quality cases
3. Law enforcement placing flimsy charges on defendants
4. defendant players clogging the system by failing to follow up, follow through, and appear for their court cases
5. The complexity of cases and lack of quick access to information for defendants and prosecution.

Ok, so let's go over reason #1: The lack of motivated players to join the faction.
The manpower it takes to operate this faction seems to be pretty high. The demand by players to utilize the faction services is high. Still, the number of interested players willing to have a character in SAJB is quite low. how can this be fixed?

The workload is high because of issues 2 and 5. Reducing low-quality cases and their complexity would likely attract more players willing to have an ALT character in the faction and contribute their time.

Server staff, support, senior support, mods, senior mods, admins, etc, are all set up to help moderate the server on an OOC level. I'm not sure of the recent wave of support applications, but there were 20+ applications last time. I'm on the fence about a "requirement," but some form of encouragement for players involved with moderating the server to have a part-time role in SAJB would likely be beneficial. Staff should be heavily be encouraged to be involved as paralegals or court clerks, so there's no requirement to show up to court cases, but they help with paperwork.

BBcode is intimidating for players to learn. If SAJB doesn't have a Paperwork tool akin to SD/PD, it would be a massive boost if a server staff member could dedicate some time to producing a paperwork tool for JB that is accessible not just to SAJB faction members but also to the public. This would make it easier to fill in the information, and players could avoid directly having to edit the text in BBcode to submit information.

Reason #2: defendant players flooding the faction with low-quality cases
This is where we could get a bit controversial, and forgive me in advance if anyone feels targeted. There's a set of criminal-focused players that have flooded the case files in the past or are currently flooded with petty small-charge disputes. I look at it this way. you're a hardened criminal who regularly is imprisoned for murders, felony thefts, and a plethora of different violent and serious felonies. Is it worth your time, and like half a dozen other players' times from the judge, prosecution, defense attorney, and PD/SD legal divisions, to dispute a low-level misdemeanor that was tacked on with your laundry list of other charges? It feels like many cases are submitted by players throwing a not-guilty charge on everything they get and seeing what sticks. Don't get me wrong, it's likely a valid dispute, but the lack of severity seems to far outweigh the effort it takes to deal with it. It's just a thought, though. 

So, a suggestion on how to fix this?
SAJB currently fines defendants who are found guilty on all charges a $5000 fine. This is laughable. The fine needs to be increased drastically as a deterrent for defendants to not file flimsy defense cases. The court system should heavily punish you for wasting many players' time. So, the punishment. There are two different court case systems. Bench trials and standard cases. Bench trials are meant to be fast, while standard cases are intended to be more in-depth and require much more work. I'd like to see fines increased DRASTICALLY for losing a case. Something to the tune of $50,000 in fines for a bench trial and $100,000 for a standard trial. I feel that a large monetary fine for wasting so many different people's time would be a valid way to discourage low-level and low-quality cases coming through the faction while still not outright limiting players from actively wanting to be involved in the RP, even if they know their character will 100% lose.

Reason #3: Law enforcement placing flimsy charges on defendants

"if you don't like it, take it up with JB in eight months." How many times have you, as a criminal player, heard this said to you when complaining about being charged multiple times for the same crime or disagreeing with the cop who charged you? LEOs actively take advantage of the weaknesses of JB to place flimsy charges on players, write low-quality arrest reports that would get torn apart in court, and have no repercussions from their faction leadership when a defendant wins their case.

So how do we fix this?

Drastically increase payouts for not guilty. The current system pays you back the fine you paid and $200 per minute spent in jail/prison. Let's take this charge, for example, WF01 Assault with a deadly weapon. 45 minutes in prison, and $3000 fines. If you win your defense case, you will get a payout of $3000 for the original fines paid and $9,000 for the 45 minutes spent in prison, for a total of $12,000 in reimbursements. If we will be 10x-20x the fine for being found guilty, we should also pay 10x the fines paid back for the charge you're found not guilty on. $200 per minute spent is honestly pretty fair, but the static charge fine should be a 10x payout for the defendant. Having such large payouts be a thing for players should encourage law enforcement to be more careful about charges placed, making sure the charges placed are accurate and adequate evidence is kept to prove the crime was committed, or else the criminal player will get a large windfall for the LEO's mess up.

JB and LSSD / LSPD IA need to work together more closely. Officers who've placed a charge that the defendant is found not guilty of should receive punishment within their faction. This currently doesn't happen. I've watched the Suspensions, Terminations, and Resignations section of the Gov site, and not once can I recall a suspension/termination being placed regarding an officer placing a charge on a defendant and them being found not guilty of the charge. One of the things that is pushed pretty hard by LSSD / LSPD IA is that successful IA reports are the best way to influence officer players. Getting a suspension, demotion, or termination is the best way to affect a bad officer. With SAJB cases hopefully being processed and concluded faster, LSSD and LSPD command need to proactively work with SAJB and issue influential suspensions against officers who placed a charge that the defendant was found not guilty. The suspensions need to be severe as a deterrent and encouragement for LEOs to accurately place charges. Like one day per misdemeanor, three days per felony, and five days per serious felony as a starting point. 

Reason #4: defendant players clogging the system by failing to follow up, follow through, and appear for their court cases

I've heard there is a fix for this coming in, but this is one of the significant problems with the courts. Players use the court system, time and effort are put into it by attorneys, prosecutors, and judges, and then the player fucks off because it's taken so long, be it they leave the server, give up on the case, or just forget. The solution being worked on is a new criminal charge that SAJB can place for a failure to appear.

Reason #5: The cases are too complex, and there is a lack of quick access to information for both defendants and prosecution.

One of the issues I've seen is the needless complexity of SAJB's access to arrest reports. This is a lengthy process. It seems that the SAJB prosecution has to request an arrest report, and a member of LSSD IA / LSPD legal affairs has to respond and provide the arrest report to the prosecution. This, to me, feels like a necessary step, as SAJB prosecution is already sworn in effectively the highest level law enforcement in the state; why do they not have access to arrest reports? This access would cut off sometimes days to weeks of waiting for something as simple as a piece of paperwork.
 

Edited April 26, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Diligo]

JB can do cases on the spot, but all the sides need to be online and on-duty to do a trial.
So that usually is not available for most crims.
Also the trial takes 1-3 hours which is most probably the time they would have spent in DOC.

LEOs stack charges(not everyone), even if you are being nice and polite during your arrest as a crim.
But that is the way the system is, they are not forced to be lawyers/judges and know the law enough to decide which charges need to be applied which would be considered vaguely different but in general the same, they just see the description and apply it. They see another similar description and then add it too. Then they think about unlawful assembly and stack that on. As the saying  goes - the 3rd charge's the lucky one.. or so have i observed it.

So JB is in a weird spot - it works like a real life Court... but the City's Law is enforced by the police and they are judges and executioners.

Cant blame crims for forcing JB to do "unwinnable" cases, because that is not the reality at all.
Judges can deny cases they deem to be unwinnable so any case that gets accepted is technically winnable by the Defense if they try their best.

BUT me having said that all - To make JB more populated, your suggestions would help my friend

[Demonmit1]

1 hour ago, Diligo said:

Also the trial takes 1-3 hours which is most probably the time they would have spent in DOC.

the chances of a live trial before sentencing is placed is non existant. there isnt enough players on the server to support having JB, LEOs, and Crims to all line up perfectly during an arrest for a immediate bench trial to take place. Live trials is an end goal, but its not going to happen with our active player count.

THOUGH, if it does happen, i'd rather spend my time RPing in a court case for a chance to lower or eliminate my charges than just spend that time afking in prison.
 

1 hour ago, Diligo said:

they are not forced to be lawyers/judges and know the law enough to decide which charges need to be applied which would be considered vaguely different

This is a basic requirement. its not moderated every single time, but crims have the option to request a supervisor if they feel the charges placed are incorrect.

 

1 hour ago, Diligo said:

Cant blame crims for forcing JB to do "unwinnable" cases, because that is not the reality at all.
Judges can deny cases they deem to be unwinnable so any case that gets accepted is technically winnable by the Defense if they try their best.

there are often cases that are blatantly unwinnable. all cases have to be accepted to comply with the constitution, a judge cant throw out a case just cause its likely to be lost.

for reference:
over a month of multiple peoples time for a blatant unwinnable case for a speeding charge: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=198298
4 months over a blatant unwinnable case for tresspassing: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=190291
2 months over a blatant unwinnable case for tresspassing: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?t=196374


a lot of people just end up stop responding so their obvious loss cases just get canceled due to lack of communication. there's more active cases that are just blatent petty cases.

[dominator]

6 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

This is a basic requirement. its not moderated every single time, but crims have the option to request a supervisor if they feel the charges placed are incorrect.

The last time I asked for a supervisor, I got the following answer:
"I am the supervisor"

But then again, that was a year ago or so. I don't interact with PD/SD unless it is forced on me (Traffic Stop etc).

[Bala]

It’s almost like this shit was shoehorned into a server with a player base that either doesn’t understand or respect the nuances of law roleplay and just want to simply get away with doing some shit. 

There have been some people that have really tried to make it work and I respect the effort, I do. 

But at what point do you actually just call it? The mistake isn’t trying something, it’s persisting with it when you know it’s not serving the people it’s supposed to.