ComradeCorbyn
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Posts posted by ComradeCorbyn
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51 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:
I ran an organized crime group that did not have a color for six months and we had people say that we were inactive because we weren't seen around. The fact of the matter is that unless people see you around regularly, they will assume you do not play. The only thing we gained was lack of police attention, but that was not worth the drawbacks, therefore, we now use a color. It is not ideal, but end of the day, it is a game and compromises are made. But it's not just "poor RP standards".
I mean it's not a universally inappropriate clothing choice. There are plenty of real gangs that "run colors", but they are far from the type of gang that many gangs attempt to portray themselves as.
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1 hour ago, Sico said:
could you show me any pictures of clothing that would suit a modern crime family?
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Nobody in organized crime, even Italian-American organized crime, dresses like this. If you want to roleplay a crime family from 70 years ago, that's fine but there's plenty of clothing to roleplay a modern crime family, people just opt for gang colors due to poor standards.
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16 minutes ago, Helix1015 said:
Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem.
I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false.
"People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was.
"You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff.
this u?
Allow me to reiterate; We only remove or deny TRULY hateful players from the faction.
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42 minutes ago, Harveyyy said:
So if an LGBTQ person wants to talk about their beliefs and promote them everywhere, then it's freedom of speech (first amendment right in USA), but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or just a Straight person wants to talk about their beliefs then it's bigoted and shoving their religion/beliefs down people's throats? If an LGBTQ person wants to protest because that seems to be the norm, then that's just "democracy in action", but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or a Straight person wants to voice their opinion that LGBTQ people are heavily demanding through these protests, online posts etc. then it's just straight up homophobia? This is not a double standard, this is just illogical. It becomes irritating when people start to believe they're being forced to accept this, and if they don't, they get labeled as homophobic.
LGBTQ people have been celebrating this for many many years and I had no issues with it until it became forceful - the need for acknowledgment, the need for force celebration, the need for force validation, and that's when you lost people. Look, it's OKAY to be proud of your sexuality, but why do I have to be proud of YOUR sexuality? I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're LGBTQ, I don't care if you want to call yourself a Zebra, I don't care if you want to stand on your head, and I could not care less what anybody wants to do in their own private life with their own private time, but I do care when you decide to use the "homophobic card" against people simply for disagreeing with you or for having different beliefs, let alone I have more important things to worry about. If people want to support you, then I'm happy for you, but if they don't, then LEAVE them out of it! Stop demanding attention from everyone and expect everyone to be on board, because that will not happen.
Everybody should have the prerogative to decide what they want to support or not, you cannot sit there and force this on everyone. If you want people to at least show you respect, then you have to respect their beliefs, it's a two-way street! However, if someone goes out there and attacks LGBTQ people and uses slurs etc, then you have the right to call them homophobic, and that's the only time you have the right to call someone that word.
Lastly, If you think I'm homophobic/transphobic/racist, whatever, then shame on you!
To be honest, I think your comments are coming from a place of extreme anti-woke sentiment instead of actual validity. You should know as well as anyone as a former member of the faction that we have plenty of people just like you who don't mind gay people and are tolerant of them, but are slightly off put by the excess of pride or the "forceful" nature of some pride demonstrations. Many of our faction members from Eastern Europe, from Eastern Asia, from Africa all share this sentiment, and it would be ridiculous if we were to wage war on members who simply aren't as used to western, progressive sentiments like this. You should know that the only players being targeted are those who are truly hateful, not just random members of the faction or applicants who have expressed slight discomfort with the progressive nature of our expression.
You're really expressing a non-problem here. People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes, people who hold these views actively in our faction are not being suppressed, you're just wrong. Your sentiments are coming more from a reactionary view of our policy rather than any actual "discrimination" or labeling of people with your viewpoint. If you can give me a point where someone from our faction called one of the many people with your viewpoints homophobic for your views, I'd be happy to hear it, but you're really just making something bigger out of a non-issue.
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1 hour ago, Cyrus Raven said:
No clue if this is directed at my reply.
''Would you, for example, take issue with someone being laid off from their job due to making their colleagues uncomfortable with their speech?'' - This question is impossible to answer without further context, I assume you typed it thinking most people would answer ''No, I would not take an issue with someone being laid off from their job due to making their colleagues uncomfortable with their speech''.However, I can equally provide you with a hypothetical where my answer to this question would easily be ''Yes'':
A Saudi Arabian company with a hybrid workforce has received a complaint from their workers. The company workforce is comprised of 90% Saudi workers with the remaining 10% being remote workers from around the world. The complaint is from the Saudi portion of the workforce who have expressed their discomfort with a colleague who is openly expressing their support for the LGBTQ+ community via the company's various digital platforms that allow things such as profile pictures. The reported colleague was let go shortly after the report.In this instance, yes, I would have an issue with someone being laid off from their job due to making their colleagues uncomfortable with their speech.
All of this to say that it's great this community is progressive, I am progressive myself and a member of the LGBTQ+ community, those of you closest to me will know this. Having said this, I want to make sure that if someone gets ejected from parts of this community for their views it's for truly hateful reasons and not for just having a different view. (e.g John from Texas supporting traditional family values that I mentioned earlier)
Keep in mind as I stated in my first comment, I do not know the specifics surrounding any recent events, so do not take my views on the matter as a comment on them.For clarity, I was not referring to your comment. I am aware of plenty of "John from Texas" in our faction, and they are generally quite accommodating and tolerant, I can assure you that our faction only denies and removes truly intolerant individuals.
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I find the constant comments about "Freedom of Speech" to be quite misguided. No one will argue that anyone can say almost anything within reason about their opinions on the LGBT movement, but the second someone faces consequences for their speech, freedom of speech is being violated? Would you, for example, take issue with someone being laid off from their job due to making their colleagues uncomfortable with their speech?
Freedom of speech is universal, if you think that your rights are being infringed upon because of removal or denial from a faction, you have a very warped view of what freedom of speech means. As the person in charge of SD's recruitment, I have, with the support of my command, a responsibility to maintain the faction as a comfortable and enjoyable environment for all members. I have no interest in people with certain warped viewpoints of gay rights joining the faction and feeling uncomfortable with our progressive attitude on the situation, and furthermore would not want to see these individuals making our faction members uncomfortable.
Individuals and players in this community are free to hold whichever viewpoints they feel proper, and furthermore express those viewpoints with those speech, I think this is undeniable. What is also undeniable, though, is that as an independent faction, we have the right (and responsibility in my view) to restrict our private faction to only those we see fit. Just as you would see a consequence for not meeting other fitness requirements such as being OOCly toxic on forums or discord, an accepting and tolerant view is also a requirement for admission to our faction.
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I like the fit bro!
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he he he. yup!
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okay now this would be awesome
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These restrictions wouldn't be necessary at all if most people in the server used realistic language in their roleplay. I honestly would not care if individuals used extremely disgusting language in roleplay, including "KYS", or other slurs. I can only speak for myself, but I would have no issue if appropriate gangs used the F slur and N word in (preferably text) roleplay. It's an uncomfortable part of roleplay.
The issue I have is that most of the players who use this language are not using it in good roleplay. Using the N word casually in speech is ENTIRELY different than downing someone after a shootout and calling them an F slur or walking up to them and saying "KYS" before killing them. If these players with incredibly poor language roleplay, who might I add are very vocal in this thread, decided to use this language only when appropriate I would see no problem not restricting it.
That being said, many of you cannot control yourself from sounding like you're playing league of legends in a roleplay game, so these restrictions seem necessary. If these players could control themselves and use such language responsibly, this would be an entirely different discussion. Sorry you want to call people the F slur after downing them in labs!
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I completely agree with your opinion for a few reasons. Although I do agree that this language can and will affect others on an out-of-character level, and that often times individuals use this language in-character to get a rise out of someone out-of-character, the most convincing argument that I can make for this is how lacking of immersion this language is.
Much of the language used in the community (often in text chat) comes off as unrealistic entirely and demonstrates poor roleplay standards. There are countless instances where I am roleplaying my character and endlessly faced with language which makes me feel like I'm playing in a CS:GO lobby. Whether it be hearing "get clapped retard" after a shootout, or even common mixing such as players saying that certain groups are "driving people out of the city", it's clear that many players use niche gamer language in-character incessantly, creating what is, in my opinion, an incredibly demotivating roleplay experience. I enjoy roleplaying with characters who I feel interact with the world as real people, but the unfortunate fact is that I'm often demotivated to roleplay with players that I do not know, as they are often bad roleplay experiences due to this.
Whether it be the lack of ability to roleplay a character who interacts with the world as one would in real life, or the prior inability to interact with people in real life, many characters which I interact with on a day-to-day basis do not reciprocate realistic vocabulary in their roleplay. I'm not advocating for players to in some way be penalized for using unrealistic language in roleplay, but I believe what you are suggesting is powerful in targeting particularly harmful unrealistic language, and for that reason is entirely justified.
As for those arguments that the server is going "too soft", I agree. The server is not nearly hard enough on the roleplay standards of countless players with no regards for high-quality roleplay. One of the reasons I have been so secluded to singular communities in my roleplay is that I find most factions currently have not a care in the world for using realistic language in their roleplay, and often create environments which encourage highly unrealistic and often times toxic gamer language in-character.
Thank you for this thread, Dezzy!
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I very much appreciate the roleplay standards you're going for in your requirements, best of luck with seeing them to fruition!
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that's friggin awesome dude
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thats awesome
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welcome to gta rp
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29 minutes ago, deadeyedraw said:
Ok. Let's throw balance out of the window and focus on the smoothness of gameplay. it is unrealistic to not be able to shoot while in a stopped car.
I agree! You should be able to shoot out of a stopped car. Whatever else you were saying about DM rights and when you can shoot out of a stopped car yeah I have no comment on any of that.
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that's awesome
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29 minutes ago, AnakinB said:
Which takes me back to where I said, "You go on straights to lose the shinobis, tuff shit the shinobis are still on you, you go under bridges to lose the heli tuff shit, the shinobis are on you." and im not sure why your bringing up the fact the shinobis arent maxed the shinobi is still crazy stock.
because at the end of the day its a fucking videogame, you can talk to almost any crim who has quit the server and I can almost guarantee you that the absurdly over powered police will be one of the main reasons.
I feel the difference between the crim and pd thing is crims have to save up their money, buy the car, buy repairs, buy gas, buy guns, buy armor. Police dont have to pay for a single thing, Popped tired? theyll go over to MRPD and spawn a new one, less than 75% gas? ill go spawn a new car! Theres a man with a gun behind this corner? Thats fine I have 150 ap and a carbine while thatd be stupid to push, if I die ill just respawn and spawn it back in, if I lose some armor ill just go back to my car and grab another 150k armor for free. which leads back to main post, pd and crim is unbalanced.
You are talking about a roleplay server as if it is a MMO, which I find ridiculous. If you want to play in an environment that values balance between factions over realistic relationships between organizations then I don't think you will see the changes you would like implemented.
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5 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:
Did you forget that this is a game? A day for one charge is crazy, nevermind a whole week for one charge.
If someone does not want to engage in DOC RP they have 3 other character slots by default. The point is that serious charges should seriously impact a character's contribution to the outside world.
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I think offline jail time is a great idea. It creates a situation where individuals who want to provide good quality roleplay to DOC can stay on and create RP for DOC, and individuals who simply want to DM and spam jump at the cell door to glitch out can log off. However, I have a caveat. Sentences should be MUCH longer. A murder charge is an hour and a half. I watched a criminal shoot an officer the other day because he was mad about not being let through a door in a hostage situation. Murder of a government employee, a charge that would either be the death sentence or life in prison. Whatever! Just an hour and a half, right? Your character is NOT affected by DOC time in any capacity, it's simply a few hours out of commission.
If a charge like murder was extended to a week in DOC (which could be spent offline) much better RP would result. First of all, since you have a long sentence in DOC you can properly roleplay life locked up, long-term jail gangs could form, a jail hierarchy could form, and much better RP could occur with script assistance. Secondarily, we would not have the absolutely insane murder rates which we currently have. I know everyone loves going to labs and getting into shootouts, but tell me why it makes any sense for criminal organizations to be putting away bodies at such a rate while basically remaining unaffected. Third, it would create an actual impact to criminal organizations when being caught by police. If your gang leader catches a murder charge, your gang is ACTUALLY affected, not just missing 1 body for a shootout. Charges should ACTUALLY affect roleplay, and they currently do not.
So yeah, offline jail time sounds great, but extend the time of every charge DRASTICALLY. Make a gun charge a day in DOC. Make a murder charge a week.
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10 hours ago, AnakinB said:
#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest man.
I'm not sure what idea you have of RP to where you think that a multi-million dollar police department SHOULD be balanced with any random criminal organization. I, in fact, agree with you though. I think it's a little absurd that every pursuit PD/SD engages in requires all-hands-on-deck response in terms of vehicles, but tell me this. Do you think it's realistic for any old criminal organization to be driving around Issi Sports, Paragons, Shinobis, BF400s, Manchez Scouts, Patriot milspecs, elegy retro customs, sultan classics, and on and on? Can you name a single organization where it makes RP sense for the organization to be driving around these vehicles? The answer is none.
It makes absolutely no sense that criminal organizations are driving around WILDLY out-of-character vehicles purely because they are more powerful. PD or SD would NEVER deploy excessive vehicles such as multiple shinobis, highspeeds, and so on for pursuits of most of the vehicles that would make RP sense for criminals to drive, but yet the complaint is always that PD and SD are unbalanced. I get it, you want to drive the cool vehicle and be the best gang, but have you though about roleplaying a realistic criminal organization?
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After about a year playing on Eclipse and learning all aspects of Grand Theft Auto Roleplay, I've come to some conclusions about the state of roleplay on the server. As we as a community are all in the pursuit of better roleplay standards, I hope you'll hear what I have to say with an open mind.
There has been one overall conclusion I have made after putting an absurd amount of playtime into criminal, LEO, and civilian characters. The criminal script negatively impacts criminal roleplay on the server. Broadly, all aspects of what it takes to be a scriptly "good" or "powerful" gang do not necessarily require any roleplay, and in practice I have not personally seen a faction with high roleplay standards succeed more in game than factions with less-than-great roleplay standards.
Turfs
Generally speaking, criminal factions pursue power in game by increasing their control in the "turfs" system. At the end of the day, criminal factions as a whole gauge their success in game by how they perform in the upkeep of their turfs and the "pushing" of other faction's turfs. There are several ways that this can be done in the turf system.
Firstly, I would like to talk about money laundering.
- Money laundering in the script at the moment is a travesty. The concept could be, and has been, used to create wonderful roleplay stories about how an illegal organization works with businesses, protection rackets, and other illegal avenues to take dirty money and circulate it back to their benefit. Unfortunately though, it is instead reduced to learning how to drain as much packed cash as possible on a day-to-day basis and then bringing the money to an NPC to give you influence. Bank robberies should be a roleplay opportunity for everyone in the server, where criminals get to express themselves and their faction in a meaningful and special way in-character and in game conflicting with not only LEOs but also civilians in the area. Instead, because bank robberies are so vital to maintaining turfs in the script, they are hit on cool down in the most min-max way possible, getting all bikes so the fewest amount of people are caught as possible. There is currently effectively no roleplay involved in bank robberies, and when there is criminal-LEO conflict at banks, it normally results in a forum report. Although there are many reasons why the roleplay around bank robberies is bad right now, a major reason is because criminals are forced to min-max bank robberies if they want to be a scriptly powerful faction through turfs.
The second most consequential part of turfs is drug manufacturing.
- At the moment, there is effectively 0 roleplay involved in most drug interactions on the server. Criminals sit in apartments for hours on end every day in the pursuit of furthering the power of their faction through the script turf system. This has gotten so bad that not only are criminals forced to isolate themselves for hours on end in game, but they also avoid drug RP with other characters. Nine times out of ten if you play a character that tries to buy drugs off the streets, you will not be able to do so because the current criminal script does not encourage that kind of roleplay. The current criminal script encourages sitting in highly unrealistic high rise apartment labs synthesizing absurd amounts of drugs and then taking them to an NPC to gain turf power. This is quite possibly the largest travesty of the criminal script at the moment, almost entirely due to the current turf script. I understand that solutions to some of the drug problems may be being addressed in the upcoming drug update, but I have concerns that these will not be enough.
Lastly, turfs are also maintained by "chopping" cars.
- This is one of the most disappointing parts of criminal roleplay. At the moment, to chop a car all you will have to do is manage to steal a car and bring it to an NPC for processing. Gangs do not have any script incentive to engage in actual roleplay in this, and many a time the "roleplay" that is seen around chop shops is criminal characters hiding around a shop waiting to ambush potential car thieves. I cannot begin to express how dynamic the chop shop roleplay could potentially be for criminal organizations. Simply imagine a criminal organization actually running a chop shop. At the moment, most LEOs simply know the locations of chop shops. This obviously is ridiculous as if LEOs knew the location of a chop shop it would be swiftly shut down. Instead, criminal organizations could potentially create chop shops where criminal characters roleplay dismantling a vehicle at a particular location and establishing an RP chop shop for their criminal organization. LEOs could potentially investigate and find these location and attempt to bust them. Overall, this is yet another part of the script which supports effectively no roleplay.
So what would a better system look like?
I don't necessarily know what the best solution would be, but I'd like to think I have a relatively good idea of how we can improve things. Overall, the turf system should be based on what factions have the best roleplay reasons to control a certain territory. Effectively, as factions already have regular (monthly) faction guides meetings, criminal factions would display to faction services what their roleplay has been in game. This is already being done through the faction thread system where factions display their roleplay. The only change that would effectively happen is during faction guide meetings, faction leaders would display some of the roleplay they engaged in for the past month to their faction guides, and faction services would decide how faction turfs are distributed. This would create an environment where sheer size and wealth of a faction would not matter as much as roleplay does for the power of a faction. At the moment, I struggle to find any real, realistic roleplay in criminal circles, and this would heavily support realistic criminal roleplay.
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39 minutes ago, Bala said:
Appreciate the amount of effort you put in, but I think there is already debateable justification for the police factions we have. Adding a third one wouldn't be a good move.
Being that according to the author it would be a division of the LSSD, I think it actually gives more justification for jurisdictions, as the LSSD will be more effectively able to enforce that part of their jurisdiction with this new division.
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