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Posts posted by Clank
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19 minutes ago, Alverin said:
Oof, hate to break it to you but this isn't what Double Jeopardy means. You're taking it to mean you can't be convicted of the same charge twice, what double jeopardy ACTUALLY means is once you're acquitted you can't be RE-CHARGED for that offense again. So if you go to court and the judge deems you not guilty, the prosecution can't take you back to court for that same thing two years later when they come up with some more evidence.
" While double jeopardy prohibits different prosecutions for the same offense, it does not protect defendants from multiple prosecutions for multiple offenses. For example, a person acquitted of murder could be tried again on the “lesser included offense” of involuntary manslaughter. " - https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-double-jeopardy-4164747
Also
" As described by the U.S. Supreme Court in its unanimous decision concerning Ball v. United States 163 U.S. 662 (1896), one of its earliest cases dealing with double jeopardy, "the prohibition is not against being twice punished, but against being twice put in jeopardy; and the accused, whether convicted or acquitted, is equally put in jeopardy at the first trial." "
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy
You're a law student you say? What year are you in?
Besides all of that nonsense, I keep trying to re-frame this in a way people will understand, let's try again.
The reason for the stacking limit removal wasn't because of REALISM.
The reason for the stacking limit removal was for BALANCE, META-MANIPULATION, AND GAME THEORY. The idea is that by REMOVING THE LIMIT and giving cops more POWER TO IMPRISON, we will see a change in criminal behavior that fits the servers intended style.
"So if you go to court and the judge deems you not guilty, the prosecution can't take you back to court for that same thing two years later when they come up with some more evidence."
Yes exactly! I posted the definition in my post? It also not just about being acquitted, It protects you even if you are convicted! If you get convicted and they find more evidence they cant just take you to court for it with the new evidence.
"While double jeopardy prohibits different prosecutions for the same offense, it does not protect defendants from multiple prosecutions for multiple offenses. For example, a person acquitted of murder could be tried again on the “lesser included offense” of involuntary manslaughter. " - https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-double-jeopardy-4164747"
Thats exactly what I wrote! MULTIPLE offenses are completely fine in different situations you did the crime you are held liable BUT it cannot be from the same situation! You can't just charge someone for attempted murder 7 times if they shoot 7 cops in the same shootout, The courts would only try them for ONE charge. "counts" are completely different than charges when being processed/convicted!
The issue is, Shooting SEVEN different cops doesnt equal attempted murder SEVEN times. It would be one charge! ATTEMPTED First-Degree Murder OR ATTEMPTED Capital Murder depending on your state.
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The error I made writing my post was when I said "nobody can be charged for murder multiple times" I mean "TRIED" for murder. You cannot take someone to court and slam 7 attempted murder charges on someone just because there were 7 officers on scene.
Also, 3rd year law! Going for a Doctorates title like my father. You misread my post and I also made an error when I was writing it up! Apologies. I will fix my original typing mistake on my post that gave you the wrong impression of what I was trying to say.
Here's an actual lawyer defining what a 'count' means:
The murder statute defines several distinct mental states that can support a conviction for murder. The prosecutor usually charges every mental state that can potentially apply as a separate count. If the defendant is ultimately found guilty on more than one count arising out a single act, the counts are merged into one conviction for purposes of judgment and sentence..
It is even explained that it all merged into once conviction (charge) for judgement.
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TL:DR, Charge Stacking someone because they shot at 7 different cops IS double jeopardy because they would be BEING TRIED FOR THE SAME CRIME. (I just made a typing error in my original post)
P.S The theory behind prison sentence being removed wouldnt be a mitigation for crime, it actually makes criminal RP worse by them NOT wanting to be caught. More prison transport attacks, more RP ending in gunfights, more cops being shot at.
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With the removal of max sentences, the server more than ever now needs an ACTUAL ACTIVE GOVERNMENT BRANCH. What also needs to happen is the Government faction expanded into a JUDICIAL BRANCH as well.
Judicial and the government is needed to keep the police in check, the police is needed to keep the people in check and the people are needed to keep the government in check. Its a system of checks and balances.
When someone gets detained and BEFORE they are processed into jail, they would be read their rights. Once their rights are read to them they may request a trial, the officer then needs to radio to judicial and request a judge to set up a court room for trial. Once this happens, the officer would drive the suspect to the court case, they would present the case and the suspect can either get a private lawyer or a government appointed lawyer. The judge would then preside the case and rule without bias as they have sworn an oath.
This would prevent the police and the sheriffs from being judge, jury and executioners as they currently are. This would help DOC with more RP as the courthouse can hold inmates for transports and this would prevent corruption even more.
How the government expansion would work is:
There is a PEOPLE ELECTED head AKA, the mayor, the president, the governor (whatever you want to call it in game)
The head of state THEN ELECTS a head of judicial
The head of judicial hires his judges AND government appointed lawyers (for people that cannot afford one as the miranda rights say)
In order to become a judge, or a lawyer you must get a BAR LICENSE and get approved to be one by passing a test (like a weapons license on gov forums) that is managed by the head of state
This can help bring equality and fairness due to the people electing their head of state. The government/judicial keeping police in check and the people keeping the government in check because they can always vote to impeach.
I can go into further detail if anyone has any questions I can reply to the best of my abilities, im currently studying law on my 3rd year in law school so im not the most well versed but my father is a lawyer and I know my fair share of how everything works in a court setting and government setting! Any questions ill reply whenever I can : )
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What police in the server dont seem to realize. "multiple counts" of a crime doesnt mean you stack charges, that would actually be illegal and considered double jeopardy. Multiple counts of a crime are for the COURTS. They're considered crime theory and what is used to prove you guilty IN COURT. For example, if I am a police officer I have to prove someone guilty in court of their murder charge? How do I do this? By making multiple 'theories' to prove him guilty. COUNTS of a crime are literally just different ways the police can TRY and prove you guilty. Nobody can actually BE charged multiple times thats actually a criminal offense for law enforcement called double jeopardy. Stacking charges is already illegal under united states law and should be illegal in Los Santos as well. This is coming from a law student.
*edit this little image in*
"the prohibition is not against being twice punished, but against being twice put in jeopardy; and the accused, whether convicted or acquitted, is equally put in jeopardy at the first trial."
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Government Expansion and Judicial System
in Implemented Suggestions
Posted
If there are no judges available, they would be processed normally but once they are in prison they have the right to request a trial at any moment until a judge is available. This isnt a hard process to do, most court cases would take 10-15 minutes tops. Its mostly to make sure everyone gets FAIR charges and not put in prison for a ridiculous amount of time when they're not supposed to.
On the alt account character issue, Currently people have alternate accounts in factions AND gangs. It works fine I know tons of people in PD with gang characters and theres no conflict what-so-ever. Metagaming would still apply if a bias is made? Server rules prevent bias already and would continue to prevent bias in a court scenario!