Kaizure

I kind of view starting jobs as a sort of 'rite of passage' into the server. It introduces RPers to the RP on the server and the kinds of things that can (and usually will) happen. There might only be a few of them, but it's enough where it allows players the opportunity to learn the server functions and what they ultimately want to try to do on the server. Some people choose to be dedicated truckers or farmers, some become medics or officers, and some become criminals. If you're unhappy with the current state of things, where non-criminal RPers are limited to what they can do and the fact that they're constantly getting robbed, you could always start an unofficial faction of your own. Think of it like the Minutemen from Fallout, where you protect each other from criminals (raiders) at a moment's notice. ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS YOUR HELP! Joking aside, it's something you could totally do. Get enough people on board, get access to legal firearms, and keep in touch over the radio... can do some awesome things to make life more challenging for cirminals who are looking to pick on the working man. The cops won't appreciate it because, as said, it's vigilantism... but when you're all the way up North and the PD can't respond to your calls for help quick enough, sometimes you need to rely on yourselves. And dealing with the consequences of vigilantism can add to the experience.

Depends on how you do it. Nobody is safe in the city. Whenever you park somewhere, whenever you visit a hair salon, whenever you go shopping for a hamburger, there's a chance of being robbed. Even off duty officers and medics get robbed in the city. It's just a harsh reality you need to accept on the server. At least it's not like vanilla GTA Online where a casual stroll down the street results in being bombed from orbit. Farming might be one of the few jobs where you're not in a car all the time, but whether or not you're in a vehicle doesn't really make a huge difference. In real life it won't matter if you drive a truck, farm a field, work at a convenience store, etc. Everyone can be robbed at any time just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of their job. RP-wise you don't need to hire an army to protect you for growing wheat to make bread. What you can do, however, is approach the Police Department and ask if they have any units to spare to keep an eye on the farm because you suspect people are going to target you. If they are at least made aware that there is active farming, they might be at the ready to respond to emergency calls up that way a little quicker. Alternatively, as I said, you can start making friends with other farmers or people you see working and doing every-day jobs. One thing I loved about being a trucker was the CB Radio, which allowed me to suggest we pull over somewhere and start meeting each other. We'd RP hanging out in places like truckers would at a truck stop, we'd warn each other about areas that seem to be getting dangerous, and we'd use our personal radios to communicate when off-duty for casual and emergency reasons. The solution doesn't need to be the implementation of an NCZ or you hiring a small army... it just boils down to: meeting people, making friends, and working with those friends to watch each other's back. Even criminals don't stand alone. If something goes down, they call on each other for help.

I just went to the bank to verify this. The NCZ still applies to the center of the road around the bank, but not anywhere across the street. Is this the way it's supposed to be? If so, I need clarification on what is and is not considered an NCZ. The reports involving NCZ activity often state that if it's in view of the bank, the bar, the hospital, whatever, then it's considered part of the NCZ because you can see crime activity from that location. So are areas across the street considered free game and can't be moderated, or are they considered part of the NCZ?

It's really not. I understand being frustrated with being robbed constantly. I was a trucker when I started out on the server, and I'd get chased down and robbed by people all the time. I also had trucker friends who decided to become farmers because the pay was better, but they were fully aware of how often robberies would occur. We had a radio frequency to keep in touch with one another. I'd always be off doing my trucker route and keeping in touch with people over the CB Radio to ensure other truckers are safe as well as knowing what areas are more dangerous at the moment than others. Couple that with my friends keeping in touch over our radio frequency and we had ourselves a sort of civilian militia - looking out for each other against the vast number of criminals looking to rob us. Naturally cop RPers weren't too happy with this because it bordered on being vigilantes, but what else could we do? It's hard for the cops to arrive at the farm because of how far out it is, so we had to rely on ourselves and our friends to keep ourselves alive and safe. And that's where you have an in-character solution. Turning the farms into a no crime zone is not the answer; it's a knee-jerk reaction out of desperation and annoyance with the hope that something can / will be done about it. But whenever I tell people that farming earns you the most money, I also warn people that farming comes with the most risk because of how far out it is and how open it is. Best course of action? Meet other farmers around you, suggest getting a radio to keep in touch, and work with your friends to protect each other in case the worst should happen.

Yeah... but player expectations can bite you sometimes. Case in point: all the Deathmatch reports you see in the 'Player Reports' section on the forum. Players are expected to know and understand every single rule, but this is very rarely the case. There's a lot of players who come onto the server and do the bare minimum RP and rely almost entirely on server commands to do everything. Instead of RPing searching your character and removing things from their pocket, they will just use /frisk and command you to accept the frisk. Instead of RPing that they approach the downed person in the street and checking their pockets and giving them a chance to react, they simply see someone in a downed state and rob them without any RP and continue on their way. And of course, there's the players who rely on voice chat because it's so accessible, but they forget to type because they think everyone can hear them... so when people can't hear them, the first thought that comes to their mind isn't "hey, maybe they can't hear me." It's "they're not complying, so I'm shooting them." These are the same players who are going to see that an NCZ script no longer applies, which makes the area fair game for robberies, shootouts, etc. RPers who are here for an actual RP experience and treat it like a real life scenario are going to know that standing across the street from a bank means it'd be stupid to rob someone, especially in broad daylight. Or that approaching someone who's hurt on the street and trying to rob them, they're going to fight back and try to keep your hands out of their pockets. It's a nice idea to hope that all players will read and understand the rules and won't rely entirely on scripts... but that's not the reality. There will always be players who make decisions based purely on what they see in the game.

I see this come up in reports pretty frequently: that a player was attacked, robbed, killed, etc. in an NCZ, and then people justifying that it wasn't an NCZ because 'the script doesn't say so.' The script is there to stop cars from being broken into. As a veteran RPer, I know to observe certain things. If my screen doesn't say NCZ, then I'm going to assume I'm not in an NCZ. However: if I can see the bank (for example) from where I'm standing, then it stands to reason that they (and their security cameras) can see me. As a result, I won't do anything related to crime because I'll still assume I'm in the NCZ even though the script doesn't say I am. And this seems to be an idea that's enforced by the admins, as it pretty routinely comes up in forum reports. Newer role players will see that the NCZ script no longer applies, then immediately rob or otherwise attack a player simply because the rule no longer applies - even if they're right in front of the Hospital, or the Bank, or Tequi-la-la, or otherwise right in front of a location that is established as being an NCZ. For the sake of visuals, I feel like the NCZ areas in the game should have a square or circle on the map around them to indicate what is the true NCZ - even if the script doesn't apply in the areas that are highlighted on the map. With that in place, everyone (new and old) will know where the True NCZ applies and not just where the anti-car theft script applies.

Oh yeah, I know they're not massive. I was actually thinking it might work better if there was like some kind of small ammo pack or something you could carry, or have a utility belt of some kind that looks like it has a medical texture to it, but dufflebags are the most well known and used accessories that, well, looks like a bag. A backpack could work too, or maybe even a parachute retexture. Really anything would work. Just would be nice to have something that looks medically and act as something we can acquire from a clothing store.

I'll log in and check. Might be something that can be imported into Eclipse without having to do a texture change to the dufflebag. Edit: The only time you can wear a backpack is when you are doing that specific story mode mission where Michael pretends to be a computer geek. Otherwise the only time you can use a dufflebag is when you are doing a heist or a motorcycle club mission that involves dropping off goods in online. There are clothing accessories you can wear, like military helmets, that have crosses on them... but these aren't exactly ways to store medical supplies.

Title says it all, really. As an EMT, and having the CPR command unlocked in-game when I'm off-duty, I like to carry around something that indicates that I am carrying a first aid kit in case I come across someone who has been injured. I used to carry around a dufflebag, but I stopped doing it because I would always get robbed by people who want it for themselves. I never used the dufflebag to actually store anything inside of it, so basically I was spending $2000 every hour or so to say I'm ICly carrying a first aid kit around... and that adds up. Now while I can understand people stealing a first aid kit in a robbery (especially because it's a robbery), most people are grabbing the bag so they can use the bag to transport illegal goods; they aren't stealing it to use it for medical RP. So I wonder... Would it be possible to create a dufflebag reskin that resembles a first aid kit, then add it to the Clothing shops as an accessory? (Similar to where you find ties and necklaces). You can still RP it being taken, but the idea is that the bag itself can't be used as an additional inventory space, so there'd be no real benefit to stealing it. People can't steal the CPR command from you in-game, so what would be the point of stealing a medkit when you have no idea how to use the medical supplies, or what most of them are? Makes sense to me. Thoughts? - Kaizure Edit: Maybe as an addition, the first aid kit would become available once someone unlocks the CPR command? That way if someone is seen with it, you know they have the ability to administer first aid.

Oh well. Just like with every script: if the admins / devs found it was being abused, then they can just turn it off; kind of like what they do with the snow. At this point, I'm of the mind that since we don't reach the max player limit every day on Eclipse, people being AFK isn't a big deal unless they are doing it in public and are unresponsive to RP attempts. If, on the other hand, we started getting close to 1000 players every day, THEN I'd be a little stricter regarding people being AFK instead of being offline.

It is a risk, yeah. People will create macros to keep themselves in the game if they go afk, but remember: If you go afk, people are going to notice. Whether you're standing around somewhere in an alley, or wherever you choose to afk, eventually someone is going to find you and report you for being afk. Admins can track if someone is unresponsive, but typing in the /resetafk thing, which hints to a macro. Players will be punished accordingly for doing this.

Not a bad idea, really. Could be an alternative to the AFK dance we have right now. Have a command that allows players to type something like /resetafk, so when the AFK timer pops up, players can type that to indicate they are actually there and stop the AFK timer from kicking them.

Going to put some minds at ease. First, let me start by saying: I'm in the process of writing a script for some instructional videos to help new players learn things they need to know on the server. Things like proper use of /me and /do, what metagaming/powergaming/etc. is, what Deathmatching/VDM/KOS is and when it applies, how to get robbed and how to properly RP FearRP, etc. I'll also be covering things like server commands (F2 to see your cursor, how to check stats, etc.) and in general will be going over things I feel new players need to know when starting on Eclipse, as well as information that will be useful for them down the road as reminders. I'll be trying to make each video as short as possible (hoping for 1 - 3 minutes tops, but it will depend on the content of each video). Hopefully with these videos out, we'll see a rise in activity, people properly following rules and (of course) role playing. With that said... I do have an issue with these milestones. Being granted the location of a drug lab can be considered metagaming, because your character hasn't ICly acquired that knowledge. If they want that information, they need to earn it like everyone else has: by asking for it and/or meeting the right people. I know it was just an example, but I know some folks would take it to heart, so I had to say something. What I suggest as an alternative: Provide people with an option to set themselves up as 'mentors'. We have admins who can answer questions via /report 1 (question), but admins are usually busy with other, more critical matters and can't immediately answer the questions these new players have. While we have forum materials and the like to assist players, not everyone will read the forums and will just try to jump right into the game to learn it. The idea is: mentors would receive an indication that a new player has joined the server (ie: someone with less than 1000xp), as well as providing them with an ID. The Mentor can then send the newbie a private message and offer to be a mentor / answer any questions they might have when they're starting out. The tricky part with this mentor system is: you need to get people in this role who thoroughly understand the rules. Perhaps providing mentor applicants with a quiz similar to what you see when you join the server, but with more complicated questions that are intended to really test the knowledge of those applying. Mentors should be people who prove they can be trusted to teach new players and stop themselves and their students from metagaming (which would be the most immediate concern with reaching out in private messages and trying to instruct a new player).

I have a mixed feeling about this. On one hand yeah, I can understand feeling like it breaks the immersion a little because you have to get up and move around every now and then to beat the AFK timer... but on the other hand, it's obnoxious when people go afk in public and you roll up to them to rob them, heal them, arrest them, whatever and they're just dead silent because they're afk. It's immersion breaking to move around during interviews / heavy RP, but it's also immersion breaking to find someone who is AFK and can't be treated/robbed/arrested/etc. If these players are given the opportunity to stay in place for 15 minutes instead of 5, that means people standing near them have to spend 15 minutes telling people that player is afk, rather than the 5 we have in place now. I think at the end of the day, my vote would be -1 on this. I understand feeling annoyed by having to get up and doing the 'afk dance' every now and then, but each game I've ever played where RP is involved, there's always a glitch, a bug, a system, etc. in place that forces the RPer to do something in OOC in order to continue role playing. Fellow RPers, especially those who have experience in the game you're playing, will see this and know you're just doing what's necessary to keep RPing. It will never be viewed as non-RP (assuming it's justified movement), so you just need to remind yourself: just because the player is moving doesn't mean the character is moving. What you see isn't always what's actually happening.

I agree with this. I hope you don't mind though: I'm going to write an alternative version. I found the one above (especially 4.3.3) a little hard to read. 4.3.1 Using OOC information to give you and/or your friends an unfair advantage is a major metagame violation. 4.3.2 OOC Information being used in role play—which results in minor consequences to involved parties—would be a minor metagaming violation. 4.3.3 OOC Information is something you learned through OOC methods, such as using Discord, Teamspeak, or one of the OOC chat features on the server. All parties involved must witness the exchange of information through interactive role play, which means giving players a chance to see or hear what you are doing and granting them an opportunity to respond. This will all contribute to an improved game experience and a better roleplay environment.

Snipped most of your post to touch base on these things you said: 1) At present, yes, gangs, cops and other groups metagame if you classify the metagame as its current definition in the rule book. However, talking about in-game events in OOC and not acting on them is not metagaming. I have never seen evidence of all cops and all gangs using OOC information for their IC advantage, and I would like to know why you think it's okay to come in here and blanket-accuse entire groups when we're trying to have a civil discussion. 2) Same question as above: why start making accusations towards entire groups? This is how you start flame wars. If you want to change your ways, consider double-checking your posts before hitting 'post reply' and making sure what you typed can't be construed as offensive or unfair. 3) Of course Trust is the only way. Trust is the basis for every rule on the server. Everyone on the server has to do the quiz and prove they understand the rules. Being on the server and role playing with others, we all maintain some level of trust that the person (or persons) we're role playing with have all read and understood the rules. End of the day, trust is what keeps the role players role playing with each other. 4) Metagame in terms of talking about in-game events for laughs, or metagame in terms of using OOC information for IC advantage? If you have proof of this, that's one thing... but otherwise it just comes across as yet another blanket accusation. I can understand being frustrated with previous experiences, but please try to keep the conversation in here a civil one. Don't resort to petty blame-game tactics and start throwing mud around on different groups.

With the examples some of you have used in ways you've been punished, I find myself counting my blessings that I still have a clean admin record despite doing some of the things you guys have listed. Why do some get punished for talking about IC events over Discord or Teamspeak when others don't? That makes it seem like an ambiguous rule that certainly needs some revamping for better clarification on what is and is not acceptable. I agree with what many of you have said: it is a completely reasonable (and common) thing for people to share their experiences with their friends in an OOC manner, whether it's that you got robbed over 9000 times or that your car flipped because of a floating shotgun. Things happen, and we often share them because we think it's funny (which it usually is). You shouldn't be receiving a punishment for talking about something in OOC when no IC actions are taken as a result of your OOC interaction. It's clear that everyone here knows how to separate OOC from IC, though to be fair, this is just a handful of players out of the greater 200+ people we have online on average. Not all 200+ players are going to have as clear an understanding on the difference between IC and OOC, which is why it's important to give them a clear idea of what it is, rather than blanket-punishing every instance of OOC discussion regarding in-game matters. As a final note, I just want to say: I love the discussions that have popped up regarding this issue. It means a great deal that people can approach something like this and discuss it in a civil and mature manner. It really shows how passionate people are for this community and for the RP server when they see a problem and can unify to address it in a way that is constructive, rather than negative. Major kudos to all of you for the way this matter has been discussed.

Actually you don't. IC =/= OOC (IC does not equal OOC) And likewise, OOC =/= IC. You as a player might be watching a stream, and heck, you might be watching the stream while you're in the game. But just because you, the player, is watching a stream doesn't mean your character has a camera following someone around where they can see their every action and know exactly where they are, what they're thinking, etc. I agree with the first part of what you said: that if you see something in OOC, it stays in YOUR mind - not your character's mind. Your character doesn't know it IC, so act accordingly. There's no 'acting like you don't know something' because in reality, your character doesn't know something. You - the Player - might know something, but your Character doesn't know it.

Going to put in my two cents here. Been RPing on forums, games, etc. for a little over 13 years and I have seen my share of rule interpretations in that time. On one hand I can certainly understand the argument made by the OP and those that agree, but on the other hand, I can understand the admins setting up the rule as a pre-metagaming rule. The reason I understand the way it's currently set up is because this server is mostly comprised of light RPers, some medium RPers and very few heavy RPers. Light RPers, as the name suggests, are people who do the absolute minimum in terms of RP to do what they want to do, but will otherwise treat the game as a game. I see it all the time with robberies, shootouts, medical RP, you name it. People don't exactly RP writhing in pain after being shot; they RP sending texts on their phone like absolutely nothing bad has happened to them, or someone spots a downed player, approaches them and robs them without any actual RP and just uses in-game mechanics. Now to be fair, there is nothing wrong with being a light RPer. Not everyone has the same schedule or amount of time to dedicate to role play, so they'll use the hours they have to log in and have a good time. The trouble is: light RPers are generally new RPers. Not to say new in terms of Eclipse new, but new to RP altogether... and by that I mean: people who don't even have a year of RP experience. When you have new RPers in a game like Grand Theft Auto, you have a higher risk of people metagaming, powergaming, deathmatching, etc. than you would in games like, say, Guild Wars 2. When you play a game where vehicle theft, shooting someone, etc. is developed in a way where all you need to do is right-click to aim and left-click to shoot, it becomes much easier for rules to be violated because people are stuck in the mindset that 'well if this is being done in a game, it's still a game'. And while they're not wrong, they need to realize that they are adopting a different mind set when they are on an RP server. When you role play, you are basically putting yourself (or a character you created) into a reality of their own and you need to act like everything that happens in the game is something that would happen in real life. Not everyone grasps that: hey! If that tank rolls up next to me, maaaaybe I shouldn't climb onto it and start dancing. Maaaaybe I should panic and run away so my leg doesn't get flattened! That, I believe, is where the pre-metagaming rule is understandable. When you have players that goof around by jumping onto emergency vehicles and dancing, and otherwise doing stuff that makes no sense in real life, you also have the risk of people who will be reading Discord and will see that OOC their friends are being held at gunpoint, which immediately changes what they're doing and they IC suddenly decide "Eh, I don't feel like robbing this store right now. I'm going to drive out in the middle of nowhere for no particular reason." Now on the other end of the argument, I feel it also gives new players a bad idea on what metagaming is. Metagaming would be if, say, you approached a random player and looked at the name above their head. If the name above their head says their name is "Steve" and you say "Hi Steve," how did you learn their name in-character? Using an OOC game mechanic (IE: Reading a name tag above someone's head) is the true definition of metagaming: to use OOC information IC. Sometimes it's simple like what I described above, but it can be a lot worse... like reading that someone mass murdered a bunch of people and suddenly you call them out IC without having any proof other than something you read OOC. For more veteran RPers who understand what the true definition of metagaming, and for those who want new players to understand what the true definition is, I understand the desire to want to change the rule. But on the other hand, given the type of game we're playing and the amount of light/new RPers that exist, I also understand having it written as a pre-metagaming rule. End of the day, I agree that the metagaming rule should be changed to better reflect what it is, rather than having it as a pre-metagaming rule. I understand why it's written the way it is, but if you make your RPers fear that they're going to get in trouble for so much as saying 'I sneezed' in discord, then you are going to lose players faster too. - Kaizure (Drake Frost)

Sent in a backup call today because I found two people driving an ambulance, but EVERYONE who arrived on scene informed me they were driving a tow truck. Juuuust wanted to put this on here so everyone saw what I was seeing. xD Oh gosh, bugs are fun.