TheOwl

Two-way street.

 You've got good instincts when it comes to your head movement and using your jab to find your target before you hit with the cross. Square your shoulders up with your opponent when you move to slip though. It gives you access to more head slots. Gotta learn to throw from the shoulder and not the elbow too my guy. I know the gloves can be heavy but it's crucial lol First cross you tagged him with would've been a KO lol

There's plenty of NPC's. You'll find them.

I haven't been punished and I'd like to avoid punishment in the future. I'm trying to understand how players would receive a DM punishment over shooting a PD/SD character that is responding to an active bank robbery. What are players supposed to do? Stare awkwardly at LEO's until they've decided how they want to respond to the scenario?

How in the world do you get a DM punishment for shooting a cop responding to your bank robbery?

It doesn't matter what activities you feel is more worth the time and effort. That isn't the topic of the conversation. Nor is it how you feel other people should play. Thanks though tips.

Chopping vehicles creates fun things to do that are easily accessible. The emphasis being on the accessibility part. Realistically we are playing a video game. A video game that, although is RP oriented, is Grand Theft Auto at its core. I genuinely couldn't care less what you do as a player. The fact that robbing vehicles poses an issue on whether people want to leave their cars unattended might be slightly annoying to some but it's a fair trade to maintain an activity worth doing.

LOL

Let's go Playboy!!!

I hear what you're saying but the no backup rule was only introduced because Aztecas and LFM wouldn't run from PD and SD and would literally smoke both factions simultaneously and have the next 30 minutes to do as they pleased because of the NLR. Which is why it's so amusing to me to listen to LEO's use the "Git Gud Retards" argument. It really wasn't so much that they were OP as much as it came down to piss poor tactics. Show up together instead of trying to arrive on scene as fast as possible and when you do pull up don't drive directly into the middle of the fight. There are escalation rules in place to protect legals and smaller factions from larger gangs these days.

Crims do adapt. The server just introduces rule/price changes to counter their play. Take BF400s for instance. These things were starter vehicles until the price was boosted to make them less affordable. Simply because the server dislikes how theyre used against LEO's. Which only further lends credence to the fact that Gargoyles and Cliffhangers were ruled to not be offroad vehicles because of the fact that they were being utilized, otherwise why would it even be an issue? Everything is tailored for the enjoyment of PD/SD because they're led by admin. Criminals are not stupid. They understand that things are never going to change and they genuinely couldn't care anymore so they find enjoyment in any small way that they can because it's hard to take it seriously at this point.

Get rid of the no backup rule and hold PD/SD accountable for the same type of mentality. Just go about it smart and don't stupidly engage two dangerous organisations without a proper plan of action.

Before too many LEO players feel like they're being attacked I'd like to mention that I am generalizing. This is not to say that this is the behaviour of every LEO on the server. But it's enough of you to mention.

Should we go a step further and touch on why chopping vehicles is completely trash because of the amount of LEO's complaining that crims can hide and collect the money? It's laughable that any player would be upset over another player collecting 5k. How about the no back up rule? Gang diplomacy has become completely irrelevant because LEOs are so used to running into situations with vests and carbines and that being MORE than enough that they aren't even willing to take their own advice and try planning out a route of attack to ensure their survival. It's best to just kill as many crims as possible to stall until their back up arrives. It's not like they lose anything if they die. Win/win. There is a large win mentality from one side of the server and you flip flop from realism and this being just a video game whenever it suits your arguments. You claim your RP standards are high and yet cops will do 150mph up onto a sidewalk to smash someone's bike into a wall in an attempt to stall it over a vandalism charge. You are just a faction. You do not provide any more of a service to the server than crims do. Your objective is not to rid the server of crime. You have no more of a right to win any given scenario than any other faction on the server. The actual policing is done OOCly by staff and admin in regards to hacking/exploits/ban evading. PD/SD are not an extension of this.

Why else would a Cliffhanger not be considered an off road vehicle? The bike itself and it's name are clearly indicative of the fact that its a modified rally racer. There was confusion around the usage of this bike for quite some time until it was ruled that it wasn't to be used offroad. I'm assuming here but the number of complaints from LEO players in reports around the time this ruling was handed out is pretty telling.

The balance between crims and LEO's is completely out of whack. LEO's should be a little OP for obvious reasons. But the servers gone full-retard to the point where offroad vehicles like the Cliffhanger aren't considered off road for no other reason than because PD/SD don't like it. I don't mind getting busted but the limitations placed on crims are beyond ridiculous.

Although I would hate to add another rule onto what criminals can/can't do it's a +1. Nobody would ever dress as the opposition outside of espionage and intelligence gathering. I really wish common sense was used more so we didn't have to keep restricting our side of the server.

@Thommy You just posted a comment defending PD for blasting away the RP and then immediately went on the attack accusing criminals of wanting to go around blasting everything in sight. You're talking nonsense dude. Just stop before you get this forum post closed down.

^^^^ Yes, please

You mean the video titled "My first and last experience with chop shops"? Just because a couple gangs do it to sustain their turfs doesn't mean it's a viable system for chopping cars in the server. It's like trying to make players attend a weapons safety seminar. Great idea but simply not practical. You can't make players play on YOUR schedule and that's just one problem with the current system Honestly at this point I'm just repeating back to you all the same talking points ad nauseum and you aren't hearing it.

Nah it isn't 15k on average that's cap too. You're also ignoring the fact that you need to be doing this at a time when a larger gang (that you trust) is even running a chop which isn't very often. People can say it's a skill issue or they can passive-aggresively try to say you're not here to rp for not automatically agreeing with everything they say. Its all irrelevant because nobody is doing it and that's the only thing that really matters.

+1 bring crime back

That's cap. Everyone needs money to do the things they want to do. As it was stated previously, playing this game isn't all about money but it is nice to have a sense of feeling like you've progressed after spending 5 hours in game. If your character doesn't have any prior interactions with gang members the only way to build trust between yourself and an official faction is to do the small criminal grind at high risk no reward for them in order to secure import prices. Which brings us right back to square one in the conversation. Hit stores for no money. Build a small lab for more money than it's worth after purchasing the required possessions at an inflated price. Hit banks using the meta. Steal and chop cars for the official faction you're looking to ally yourself with. Etc. Etc... Far be it for me to speak for the server but I get the impression most would rather do road work than get hit with large fines for no money all for the chance at a small discount off an official faction. (Sorry for spelling or grammar. Using mobile.)

+1/-1 I think you've nailed a lot of the reasons why crims don't do criminal activities. The risk vs reward just doesn't make it worth the effort and if you're a small group or solo it's just impossible to get started. Even learning the basics needs to be done AFTER joining a group these days. That being said the more you play as a criminal the more time you'll start to spend in DOC and the more you will eventually hate being there. (Not DOC faction members fault. They're top tier.) Recently staff increased fines in order to lower the amount of time a player will spend in DOC and implemented a system that allows you to serve your sentence while you're still logged out which is a step in the right direction. I personally don't want to see the community go back on that but increased fines does compound the risk vs reward issue that criminals face with criminal activities. Giving these activities a slight bump in payout like you mentioned would help offset this. Gang HQs should be considered heavily guarded though and you should need a good reason to roll in on it looking for a fight. Sometimes gangs have small events or RP scenarios and it's just kind of a dick move to roll up on someone while they're doing these types of activities. Great thoughts and thank you for adding to the conversation.

@XeV Two might be better in case a small group gets lazy but I'd like to think the larger gangs would deal with them. But if a large faction is camping a rotating chop it's only because a) it pays better or b) they are starving for conflict. Like you said a lot of the root problems with crim rp comes down to the economy of things. It's been suggested that prices be lowered but that doesn't necessarily fix the issue of criminal activities not being worth the effort so I'd rather see crim activities take a bump in pay out. If large gangs can hold a chop make taking the parts worth it beyond sustaining their turfs. As far as conflict goes I believe Ash mentioned somewhere that faction to faction events are coming which to me is necessary for facilitating healthy conflicts. It gives factions an outlet and hopefully provides more meaningful RP interactions between rival factions before they clap each other. And yes, if criminals are actually able to make money taking an L won't hurt as much and you'll be far more likely to see Crims taking chances for the RP