Communication Problem amongst staff. Aswell as questionable decision making.

[JordanJustJordan]

Hello, I don't know where to post this so here it is. It's not technically a report, or an appeal because both of those have already been tried and its stated the final decision is in fact Final . However, I and my friends have no idea what else there is to do. We all love and enjoy hanging out on this server and having fun, but every know and then you get people that either ruin your mood or disrupt the entire roleplay scenario. In this specific instance, there were a group of people being transphobic making remarks like "I hate this trans" and "Women should so respect to men" I can't and wont reveal these players names in fear staff will take action against me even though these offenders got away without even a slap on the wrist.

We reported the person and not only did 2 people get away with everything but the person that made the report got in trouble for "mixing" despite the fact she was left no other choice, whenever she would walk away they would follow, whenever she asked them to stop ooc they wouldn't, they called the police and they just stood and watched. In this particular scenario the only option was to close the game, which is why rules are in place to make it so players have options, so they can keep playing and not disrupt player engagement. I personally believe its because the perp is an avid donator. This is unfair and unacceptable because the man that was being transphobic didn't even get in trouble for being transphobic he got in trouble for mixing aswell. Now I know what you're thinking. "make an appeal so an admin can look it over" We tried that and they came to the same conclusion. It's impossible, there's nothing to do and we're powerless.

The reason this guy got away with it (atleast publicly) was because he said "They didn't ask me to stop ooc so im allowed to" However the rules specifically state that you need OOC consent to make remarks like the ones stated in the scenario I described above. However any time that reason is brought up every staff, admin, or mod has looked over it. We had a conversation with an admin who looked at it and agreed with our side of the events but they were powerless to do anything aswell because the appeal wasn't hers to judge. I bring this to the forums to hopefully get some attention and spread awareness of this unfair behavior. This server should be welcoming to everyone from all walks of culture, however clearly there is some favoritism. If I could please get in contact with someone near the top of the command chain so to speak just to let me describe the events in great detail with proof it would mean a great deal. Thank you for reading I hope this reaches the right people.

[Apex]

I reckon this guy can help @MarcoD (he loves overreacting)

[JordanJustJordan]

9 minutes ago, Apex said:

I reckon this guy can help @MarcoD (he loves overreacting)

I'm not sure if you're saying that I'M over reacting but I feel as if this is the appropriate reaction to when something like this would happen.

[risk]

Hello. 

I am not the staff member you spoke with, the staff member who handled your report, or the staff member who handled your appeal; however, I have read all relevant posts that have been made including the report itself and reviewed the report in depth. Before I begin, I'd like to say this: everything I say in this post is not in any way, shape, or form an expression of agreement with the verbiage chosen by the parties in question but merely an elaboration on facts and an attempt to clear up some misconceptions by yourself and others involved in this situation in regards to the ECRP rules. 

Firstly, your statement of "However the rules specifically state that you need OOC consent to make remarks like the ones stated..." in this post and other similar statements in everything else, is categorically incorrect. For your convenience, these are the direct relevant rules regarding GrossRP and offensive language on ECRP. 

Quote

Usage of ethnic and/or LGBT+ related slurs is considered disgusting roleplay and all parties involved must give prior OOC consent before it can be done. 

Players using offensive language excessively In-Character through text or VOIP must stop if a player asks for it Out-of-Character. Players are not permitted to use offensive language Out-of-Character to others.

You'll notice that in the first portion of the relevant rule, slurs are the only verbiage that require OOC consent prior to engaging in. By definition, this means that sexist, misogynistic, or otherwise offensive/phobic language that are not slurs is not considered a rule breach unless the player is asked to stop OOCly and does not do so. This portion in and of itself explains why, when the report was handled, decisions were made the way they were and this was upheld through typical appeal procedures as stated by yourself and you were advised as such. 

You have already requested said rule be reviewed and I can assure you that request has been seen. I will not make a statement in regards to whether or not that rule will change because as of this moment, that is not the topic at hand. What I will make a statement on is the fact that as femme-presenting woman on this server, I have been called every name in the book in character and while I understand how frustrating this can sometimes be, I have not once encountered someone who a) did not stop when requested to or b) was not dealt with accordingly by staff if they chose not to once it was brought to their attention. This experience has been universal from the time I was new to the server in early 2021 until now.

Staff has been- and will continue to be- adamant about creating a mutually enjoyable experience for all within reasonable expectations of our playerbase which is why the second portion of the GrossRP and verbiage rule exists. If a player is saying something to you in character that you are not comfortable with, and said verbiage could reasonably be considered offensive by any person, you are well within your rights to ask them to stop OOCly and they are expected to. If it is said OOCly, it is not acceptable. It truly is that simple. 

The word "trans" in and of itself is not a slur and therefore not applicable to the requiring OOC consent beforehand in the GrossRP rule. What is enforceable, however, is assuming that a player is trans because they are femme presenting with a masculine voice and vice versa. For your convenience, here is direct relevant portion of the metagaming rule in which this is enforced. 

Quote

Players should not intentionally base their actions and/or words based on how another player sounds, as their voice may not reflect their character. For example, a male character with a female voice does not automatically mean they are a trans man or vice versa. 

This rule was upheld and it was made clear that while not a slur, the behavior shown was something that did not create a welcoming environment and was strongly discouraged.

As for your friend receiving a punishment, that is also a simple explanation: the belief a rule breach has occurred does not make you exempt from following the rules yourselves. There were absolutely other options in this scenario and while I sympathize the encounter was less than pleasant and ruined your experience, choosing to break your own rules in exchange for another is not something that can be overlooked as all players are held to the same standards. 

This is not a matter of ECRP staff catering to donators or fostering favoritism. This is a matter of a larger discussion that you've already brought to the table and at what point a line is drawn re: offensive verbiage. The rules were written in such a way to create an umbrella that helps to create the type of community ECRP strives for and I think it would be foolish to say they will never change because the server's history itself has shown time and time again that as problems arise, we adjust but to claim something else such as picking and choosing is entirely unwarranted.

I understand you're all very passionate about what's transpired and again, I do truly sympathize, as I know firsthand how difficult these encounters can be but from everything I have seen and read from what has been posted in regards to this scenario, the biggest takeaway is whether or not the rule needs amended... a discussion which you've already opened here and remains active.

This thread will be locked and archived so any relevant discussion can remain on a singular thread.