Dasmin_Nowe

+1

Phew, there is a lot of to go through, some points I agree and disagree. Let's dive in You are making assertion that a roleplaying server necessarily needs to be all realistic. Everyone getting into a roleplaying server is there to be a movie star, even as a secondary character, still a movie star. Therefore reality is not necessarily a necessary to a roleplaying server. Whether PD is prepared or not, I would take your word for it, but for now some things do feel stale and sometimes you need to paint the city anew and take some risks for it to feel fresh. And it will be the same with police, not everyone will take the and more elaborate policeman will be very high on the top that are corrupted, which opens up narrative stories within the server, don't you want your "Training Day" story in the PD? I had a very elaborate plan including 10 people that could not work due to the script not allowing to interact with the firearms. Creativity would be awarded if there were more elements to use that creativity and if that creativity did actually pay off, it doesn't now, you pay too much for creativity, so robbing a store is usually too expensive. Again addressing the point that it has to be this way or another, why can't it be inspired by the module of old Hell's Kitchen, or even more so comic book Hell's Kitchen, it's way more interesting that way than a casual city. TL;DR Role play =/= that much like real life. Police are actually quite brutal in many cases and you can't do anything about it. Yesterday a policeman hit me when I was a pedestrian walking across the street. He had his lights on and I was walking across a legal pedestrian area, it was raining and thunderstorm hitting non stop, I did not hear the policeman, he was going behind a corner with his vehicle and hit me. In real life (I know I am contradicting myself for real life, but something as laws should be taken as inspiration I think, while how the city operates or what's the state of the city not necessarily should) the policeman would get Police Negligence case and lose in any way or form. The policeman instantly said: "Good luck with that" or something along the lines and I had to go out of character to say: "disgusting RP" and he responded with something: "nice way to take it out of character", both were written in /ooc. I waited in the PD, wanted to do some RP, waited for another policeman. He arrived and I said I am writing my case, I was doing this in character, I just wanted to RP it through. He thought I was going to scam him for it or something, I just wanted $3000 as a fine, but when he decided to RP it through, I went to $1000, he helped me out, I was leaning on his shoulder as my leg was "broken". He gave $4000 and I gave him the signed settlement. So what's the point of it? I had to go out of character to say that the dude does not even try to RP it and the police is self regulated, so there aren't any rules that they are breaking when they are doing something. Police Negligence does not exist within the game, police brutality too. You have to have those laws as well, so the police roleplay standards are not that high, I have to somewhat insult them for them to realize: "Oh wait, this is RP". And props to that guy, I am really glad that he went for that RP, I even ooc said after that: "Hey, I just wanted to RP this through, do you want your money back?" and he said nah, it's fine and that he earns a lot. TL;DR Police is self regulated and there are no rules that they are breaking by being awful policeman, having the most "rules" (and even that not really, you have most procedures, not rules) does not mean you have the highest roleplay standard with everyone being this "grizzled policeman that does not care about the rules, you are a criminal and you are going to jail now without proven guilty until reasonable doubt." (that shouldn't be the case, as it would take too long, but still get the point). I did make a suggestion post, it's pretty long and extensive, this man edawn is actually byankovic, the person that helped me made this post. We are also trying to help this server. If you made Investigations Bureau, props to you, I got in contact with them once or twice, most blood boiling experience in a good way. As I was selling firearms, that was immensely exciting to get in contact with someone that is on me or something. I loved it. And again, PD is not held to the highest standings to RP, they are held to the highest standings in how many procedures and laws there are. Does not mean you have the highest standings of RP, it's different. I try not to call the police bad, unless they play the same grizzled guy that just goes: "you are a criminal and that's the way it is, I will arrest you and I don't care about much." My point of view is that the police is untouchable in many forms and if you changed that, perhaps when I am in a store behind a shop, police will not rush in because we have a cashier hostage? Why would you rush in when we have a hostage? That makes 0 sense, SWAT just go through everyone like a meat grinder, they will kill the hostages too probably not to leave any witnesses. I am doing my best, I have contacted one of the main developers of the server, Osvaldon. Me, byankovic (edawn) and Osvaldon were talking for two and a half hours about the development of the server. I am doing my best to make this more RP too, but you should consider that Police has many regulations and what not, but that does not mean RP standards or the fact that you are self regulated (for example no laws are speaking about police abuse). I would like police corruption to be a thing, what if a policeman arrests a guy without many claims, since if there were more police regulations, when can and when they cannot arrest someone, how long could a person be detained without charges being pressed and etc. I would like when police would do that and then I could go out to news agencies and fight against that in character, not via /b. Police brutality exists but we can't do anything about it because you are self regulated, you can't deny that. I like the idea of some good, some bad cops, some good criminals, some bad criminals. It makes the world feel more real, instead of basic. I hope that I will help this server to be better than it is now.

One more thing that I wanted to note, this is roleplay server, roleplay means: "act out or perform the part of a person or character, for example as a technique in training or psychotherapy". That does not speak about it being realistic, you making a statement without arguing whether it should be all realistic or not.

Narcotics, robberies, extortion, burglaries, car hijacking, smuggling different things, for example weapons, blackmail, hostage for ransom, These usually do the trick to earn a lot more money than a government employee. Yes, I do not fight against the idea of jail. If I get caught, sure, I go to jail. I never even once addressed that jailtimes should be decreased, therefore do not do the strawman fallacy. Passive criminal RP only works for the very few top people, while the muscle rank is still necessary. I am not pushing for shooting everyone on your turf, but players not getting enough money do actually hold a firearm and they will fire before thinking if they are breaking RP rules, because they don't want go working again as a bus driver to get a weapon, radio (which they have stopped using, because they cost a lot as I've said, so just went to Discord, the ones that already got destroyed mentally bit it). Are you going to assert some more things and not address the fact that the criminal pay is not close near enough and police being invulnerable to losing a firearm for some time and criminal gaining it decreases Police RP, trying to make a deal perhaps?

Yes, you should, but now it is not balanced as it leans way against the criminals, the server is anti-criminal I might add. The bigger criminals either break some rules, scam people of slightly higher sums and most of them just play poker, because you are winning against the less knowing ones how to play. My suggestion is just to add more criminal activities that at least pay like a job instead of paying them less and rewarding with jail time and removing couple thousand equipment that they have. Cars get stolen and you have to Mors it, on top of that, you need weapons for almost every activity.

The jobs should be closer, not necessarily just push away the RP scenarios, but driving around is still quite low on RP scale, while jobs could actually push towards RP. AKs are just more powerful pistols in a way, and you should not be fearful of losing a pistol as a player, but just a character. When a player is afraid to lose the pistol, he will break the RP rules to save that pistol.

Well, just addressing the grind part, not everyone should be running with AKs, but in a roleplaying server, most people should not be pushed to grind jobs they don't have any interaction with other player or the interactions are close to non existing. And to be honest, a city full of AKs might not be bad if people knew how to RP properly, but you can't when everyone is afraid of losing the pistol they have.

No, roleplay is not necessarily about realism, it's actually contrary to some extent, it's being a character you can't be in real life, because real life is already mundane and has a lot of routine.

Someone still has to grind up for that amount.

I would REALLY like to address the RP side of things in this server, but now it's literally impossible as long as there is no structure for it. I really want for ACTUAL RP to take place, but it is very rare due to lack of structure within the rules and gameplay. Main idea is that some rules make you a staple character, I pretended to be still injured after MD, as if I were going for an insurance scam and the Police Officer said: "/b You can't RP you are injured, I took you to ER", even though it was my character trying to get out of jail or get some government compensation, and me as a player I knew I wouldn't get any, but it was fine, I just wanted to RP it. This scenario showed me how some rules actually make the characters very staple and basic, which is quite disappointing, as it shows how bad people at RP here in some cases, and I don't blame it all on the players. Should Garbage collectors always drive with 15 people? They should treat criminals as more exciting job, but with a risk to get jailtime or lose some of their inventory, because you don't need a gun to be a bus driver. Yeah, I forgot that a roadmap would be a great thing. Something with long and short term strategies that players could criticize and if they can't hold up, they would go back to the drawing board.

If you really want to equate criminals in game to the same proportion as in GTA V, you run into couple problems. First one is that as I've mentioned at the very start is you play roleplay games so you could experience something that you can't in real life and it should be rewarding to some extent. The other bit is that you only consider criminal work, by that idea fishers, couriers, money transporters, truckers, bus drivers, garbage collectors, mechanics, non higher rank policemen, medical department and many others should not be in reach to riches, however, they are. Most important of roleplaying game is that you should be in reach with many things. And if they get caught in game, well, they do get prison time, just don't be afraid to reward players for their efforts, you will have more healthier and fun game.

Introduction Hey Imbure, Dasmin Nowe here. I am a professional Dungeons and Dragons Game Master. I love roleplaying games and I do like playing GTA V in your server, Eclipse. However, I did find some issues within the rules and the game elements that block people from having fun in more ways than one. What I wanted to say beforehand, people roleplay in games, because they want to experience things they can’t in real life, on top of that, to escape the routine of monotonous activities. Being a trucker and just driving without any (or close to that) interaction with other people is blatantly boring. Thank you note! I wanted to thank Byankovic, Wanheda and Wooge for giving me feedback on the game and helping me acquire information or forming the post. I greatly appreciate your input. Rules NCZ Few weeks ago there was quite a big disagreement on where the NCZs are. This could be easily solved by just taking GTA’s map and painting things on it. But before you pick up the brush, I suggest splitting NCZs into Situational and Constant. Ones that are NCZs until a certain occurrence happens, others staying safe no matter what. Those could obviously be subject to change. Situation NCZs: The block surrounding and the interior of all active banks. The Bolingbroke Prison and the parking lot / gate interior surrounding. Constant NCZs The block surrounding and the interior of the Los Santos Police Department. The block surrounding and the interior of Los Santos Medical Center. The block surrounding and the interior of Tequil La La poker lounge. The interior of The Yellow Jack Inn poker lounge. The Airport drop off. (New character spawn) The parking lot of the DMV. I will get into detail with why I chose those exact places to be situational NCZs later in the post, while Constant NCZs remain good meeting places to socialize, guarantee a certain amount of necessary safety or are meant for new players. You could take a map and paint it in two different colors, showing which NCZs are Constant and which are Situational, that would clarify a lot of things for new and veteran players. Refuelling Mid Chase Are the police allowed to change their cars if they are closed to non existing? They are also refueling it, and what about the criminals, what if they roleplay it, go to the gas station and actually pay the “cashier”, and with the inclusion of the actual cashier could be a thing. NLR Disambiguation with the NLR. There are cases where NLR does a disservice to the immersion of the game which is of the utmost importance in a roleplaying game. Keeping positive memories only makes sense, as if you come back to life you still owe your house, cars, money and etc. However, forgetting all grudges might make sense to an extent. If you are there alone and respawning in the hospital you can explain as getting shot, your brain not getting enough oxygen and losing memory of your last activity, while fictional medics pick you up. That would make the world feel more fluent to the character, you could actually reason yourself being injured instead of trying to go around the rules. For roleplay reasons 30 minute cooldown should be treated as just a fear and only as a bad memory of the headache and your subconscious does not let you go there, or rather fear itself, so you wouldn’t get hurt again. At least for the time being, it could be explained as PTSD. Scamming The rule is too ambiguous and would require some enhancing. If people catch me nearby the house, but there aren’t 5 people, can they ask me to go into the house, unlock it and let them take my equipment? Is this hostage situation? Is this scamming? Could they take 10 of my AKs? Take some effort to explain it, then the players will know whether they should be careful of that or not. Fear RP This is probably the most concerning topic and how much it ruins the game with other elements combined. But before I start, I want to go back to something, I mentioned I am a professional Game Master in Dungeons and Dragons. In that game there are 3 pillars that also exist within Eclipse: Exploration Considering that we do a lot of driving in the game works, we have that shoved down our throats, even though that element is necessary, it’s taking too much of the time over others. Socializing Onward to the second element, people (especially criminals) are bad at socializing, or roleplay. That falls not only on their part, but also on the game economy. On average a trucker’s job pays $9000 / hour. I know that this job is one of more paid jobs, but a lot of driving, mundane and quite boring jobs go close to that as well. All of the driving jobs get money from external source - the game. All of the criminal jobs get money from internal sources - other players. That is a trouble because being a criminal has a risk of staying in prison, abstaining from government jobs (unless you pay $25000, but that is quite a huge sum of money) and does not pay the bills at all. Welfare and any other activities combined to not get close to other jobs. Next point I want to make I think is of the utmost importance. If a player has a firearm that he can barely buy, upon an RP situation he will risk breaking RP rules and hoping not to get banned, because being a criminal does not pay enough. If it paid enough, the player would feel rewarded enough in general, RP would be way more appealing. In Dungeons and Dragons if your character concept is interesting, you are not going to play it long if it’s not rewarding in any game sense. I will speak about criminal economy later on. Combat As far as I understand, if there are 3 characters against 2 characters, 2 characters should always yield. To my comprehension this was made when desync was bad and weapons were not dealing a fine amount of damage. The game becomes just a basic zergrush, everyone metagaming the rules to their advantage, never stepping out of the cars, carrying firearms so they wouldn’t get robbed and etc. I think that if one is even with lesser odds, he should be allowed to resist. If I am in a two versus three situation and I shoot a guy, the fight begins with a two versus two, fair odds, no? I know that you can be aimed at, but even fighting at lesser odds and then losing makes you understand why you lost, while winning makes a great Goliath vs David story that feels very uplifting. Most of the scenarios feel prescripted and you can’t do anything about it just because rules say you will be worse at combat. In real life as long as the criminal does not have you in his hands, you will live more likely if you run in zig-zag even if the mugger is armed. I am not saying that Fear RP should not exist, but it should not feel as oppressive and firing a weapon should be more free, instead of making a player think: “Will I get banned this time for protecting my wealth, as my life will be given to me again.” There are some things that you just can’t get out of your head. Suggested to Change or New Features Criminal Pay Issue Main issue with the game now is that criminal jobs do not pay off at all. That’s due to the fact that all of those activities come from internal sources, harming other player’s experience. Harming other player’s experience (to an extent) is not necessarily just a bad thing and should remain as it does now. However, criminals should have some sort of possibility to acquire money through doing other type of work, stealing not from players, but just the game. Because if you are likely to lose the possessions you can barely have, you will break the RP and hope not to get banned. Banks This is where Situational NCZs come in. Banks could have a lot of money to get robbed and could work like a chopshop. When the bank is getting robbed, and that would work only when the people have those specific blueprints, the area becomes a non NCZ area. It could still have some limitations, but probably better if not. A person could be trying to get through the safe, while others protect him. For it to not be happening all the time, it could be somewhat of an organized crime, so the gang pays a $100000 for blueprints and can get $300000. These are all fictional numbers, but remember, pulling off such things would require a lot of people and splitting the money, $200000 of profit wouldn’t be that much through 20 people. Different banks could give different amount of money, and for it not to be performed only at random times, only allow this thing when X amount of players are on and if it’s day in the game because bank systems are on lockdown let’s say (game time day). On top of that if you are making it a price barrier, people won’t jump in doing it. Bolingbroke Prison I think this NCZ was what pushed me to even creating this post. I was watching the streamer Riflius and the most exciting thing happened. One of the policeman forgot to take his firearm away, so he decided to do a jailbreak. If that happens that area could become a non NCZ area, it would create for some entertaining roleplay and would make police more accountable. Admins were trying to explain it as theatre of the mind, as if there were more guards there. With that logic one could argue that there should be also more prisoners. And to be honest, it just makes for some really interesting RP, which is quite lacking lately. https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidInnocentWaterTBTacoLeft Chopshops If you have the best car and you chopshop it, you gain $8000. Is that really enough, because finding such a car is difficult, requires quite a lot of bobby pins, you get revenge from others, police wants to hunt you down and etc. On top of that, chopshops are too hard to find, why not make two chopshops, one that is stationary in the old spot and the other is moving around. You could make it so the moving one gives more money, so people would go and find it. On top of that there could be a place where one could steal cars from, like car salon, where people would get informed if someone steals a car. Driving Jobs It is quite horrible to an RP server, bus drivers don’t even let you in because they are afraid you have a gun. Make people work as shop owners, make them carry bags around the shop, perhaps from a warehouse nearby, overlooking the truckers’ shipments and etc. Where the player should make it in time or miss on some amount of pay, where criminals could butt in and get the pay from the player, or portion of it, so it would be way more of an RP job instead of casual driving. Cashier and the trucker could get a portion of the money in salary, the other one could be hands on, so players would be inclined to protect their money, but it would be a small percentage, as it would create at least some roleplay scenarios, while most of the robber’s money could be in the shop, and for a successful defense of the shop the player could be rewarded. ATM robbing Make robbing ATMs a thing, not from other players, but just casual thing. Oh, and speaking of, feeding ATMs money should be done by the game, not other players as it’s blatantly boring, however it could be tied to something else. There are a lot of ways to import criminal activities that work based on external sources, do not make it all internal, treat criminal jobs as if they would still be in the minds of the police, however, they would not necessarily interact with other players to a negative experience extent. Do not be afraid to give criminals a lot of pay, if criminals become too common, vigilantes and mercenaries will become a thing as well. We already have police brutality in a way, it creates this: “We are evil, but we are fighting different evil” mentality which is good for that type of game. However, there are no ways to fight back which I will go into later on. In a nutshell, criminal pay, or external economy will make the game way more interesting and enjoyable to everyone. I think at the moment this is the biggest issue in the game as it pushes other negative things to coexist with those issues. Fighting against the Police The criminals, also not forgetting the low pay need to work for their firearms. They do not have the authority (I know that they don’t also need to follow all the rules) and are in smaller numbers. They can’t take firearms off the policeman and that makes working as a policeman the safest job in town. If you are afraid of police just supplementing weapons, insert rules that cause permanent ban for that and if you lose a shotgun, perhaps give a long cooldown for those weapons, while handhold weapons are on quicker cooldown, so you could at least hold one to do your work. I had many plans to fight the police and create these wars that would be an interesting RP experience, but can’t, just because I have to work hours for something police won’t feel a dent. It would make the police more vigil. Car Chases Now they are basic: “who will drive and perhaps shoot a couple bullets better” competitions. Make places where perhaps the police has no jurisdiction, so they’d be aware of it, where they couldn’t follow the criminals to, try enabling trains that go by a very strict schedule, so you could plan the chases. There are many many many elements that could make the thing interesting. Not all scenarios should be created by the players, game elements should be there as well to support it more. Car Races There already are car races in the game, however, all of them are organized by the players. Let the server organize something and create “sponsors” that give money to participators, bet their money and etc. These races could be deliberately illegal, so the police would want to interrupt them, it would make the thing more interesting. On top of that, you could integrate pink slip races, where if one loses, he or she also loses the car, on the other end, they would win the car. Admin created races would allow for more elaborate routes. Mayor A person that is capable of changing the PD laws (only with Admins’ approval, so the game wouldn’t become too dumb or unrealistic. He would get money for cars, hiring mercenaries to protect him and he could also be captured to pay ransom. The character should be voted by the players, not sure whether once per character or player. That person could also settle disagreements and etc. Please give your opinion in the comments so I could respond, express where you agree or disagree. Thank you for your time and attention!