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About demoniks

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  1. demoniks

    Server Wipe upon moving to RAGE

    +1 I've invested some time into the server, and am planning on investing more. With that being said, every second I've spent here, I've assumed this is a developing server that will have content updates, and apparently even more drastic changes. With a game(or server) in this state, in my opinion it should be 100% expected that certain things will cause complete server (and asset) wipes. This is just something that comes along with playing games and mods that are works in progress.
  2. Account name: demoniks Character name(s): Damon Black Admin who issued punishment: Jacob Miller / BallinByNature Date of punishment: 1/31/2018 Reason given for punishment: Fear RP | 1st Offence / **Ignore Fear RP 1st offense.** Your explanation of what happened: I want to express that I understand why the warning was given (I'm not sure there were in fact meant to be two given) and that I certainly don't mean to cause any problems or drama for the admins, mods, devs, or other players. At the same time, I do feel like I need to at least share my side of the events, my reasoning for why my character took the actions he did, and why I do not believe they fall within the scope of Ignore Fear RP. In a game where guns, violence, and hardened criminals are so prevalent, there must be some kind of leniency and discretion given to players in regards to just how fearful their character would be, and how that fear would manifest itself. These questions take real discovery into the situation and circumstances, and that is all I am truly asking for from the admins here. I believe my actions have always remained IC and consistent with what someone of my character's background and perception of the world would do. I RP seriously, I built multi-faceted and layered PCs, and all I ask is that the other players respect the game world as much as I do, which I do not believe has been the case. To begin: Shortly after the party tonight I was awarded the RP/Dance competition cash prize of $25000. The exchange happened outside the club, in view of other players who were vying for the prize. OOC, the admin did not have the cash on him, and told me I would receive it in a bit. Not knowing if that meant I should follow him to receive it, that is what I initially did. While leaving the club, there were some OOC technical hiccups that caused the admin to be booted from his vehicle, which caused me to pull over. This action was taken advantage of, as I was soon blocked by the other players' vehicle and they began asking me questions like "Where you going?" and "Why you speeding?" They never made any direct commands or indications that they were robbing me, in the time that I gave them. (Which wasn't super long, but long enough to declare intent.) High speed chases and pursuits followed, in which I did make it clear that if they kept it up, gun play would be involved on my end as well(Further proving to them that I was resisting and consenting to them taking their remedies to that IC). They shot at me several times. I made my way to the bank with them in pursuit (my sense of RP would say that their goal is to STOP me from reaching the bank, through PITing me, shooting me, or otherwise STOPPING me from reaching safety.) and upon arrival, came into contact with a Weazel News reporter. I stopped my vehicle next to theirs and asked them to call 911 for me. As the pursuers came in, I evaded a few times and circled back to the bank in an attempt to let the police arrive. The ambiguity about the bank at this point I think caused some trepidation on the criminal's part, but I believe their argument is that since the RP was initiated elsewhere, it was still on. That's fine. They should have shot at me, or otherwise incapacitated me while they had that chance to finish their RP. They did not. Instead, they got into an argument with the reporter about not calling the police, and I took the opportunity to then dash into the bank to safety. I want to stop it there for a moment and say that I believe this is where the RP truly should have ended. With my reaching the bank, encountering a witness who is also a quasi-governmental employee, and asking that witness to call the police, the criminal parties had entirely too much IC RP reason to get the hell out of there to continue on with the robbery attempt. Once I initially began to evade in my car, with a gun drawn, I gave them the IC consent to attack, pursue, and otherwise try to kill me in order to rob me of my money. They failed to do so (with mitigating circumstances that I would readily concede) and in so doing, allowed me to reach a position of what should have been safety. That should have ended it. This is not how it played out. After making it into the bank, I quickly deposited the cash(IC), and was met by the lead criminal player demanding I come outside. I will admit at this point the ambiguity and "grey-areaness" of the entire encounter got the best of me, and I complied with his demands whereas I should have stayed within the bank and the safety it provided. I instead exited the bank and attempted to keep the roleplay going. Upon exiting the bank, the criminal behind me had his gun on me, and two other criminal had guns drawn on me. They directed me to their car, and told me to get in. I purposefully stalled, and the criminal behind me actually took his gun off of me and entered the vehicle. As he did so, I checked the other two criminals. One was on the other side of the car, looking down the street, and did not have a gun on me. The last criminal was holding a rifle and made his way to the other side of the vehicle, essentially placing the car (and the criminal who was already in the car) between myself and him. This is where I am accused of Fear RP, and I can understand the accusation, but I do not agree with the confirmation of it. Upon exiting the bank, my character's perception of the events unfolding were that his life was over if he got in their car. Period. This meant that IF (AND ONLY IF) the criminals gave him a CHANCE to escape, would he exercise that chance and live with (or not) the consequences, because he was screwed anyway. This decision was made due to his mentality and mind state. Damon Black is the leader of a criminal organization. He keeps a low profile with press and government figures, but with other criminal and seedy types he is very direct and straight forward. No secrets are kept, and the criminals attacking him were aware of his affiliation. As a street gang leader, Damon loses everything he has worked for his entire life if he gets in that car, even if they don't kill him. Gangsters don't follow leaders who get kidnapped, ransomed, figuratively or literally raped, and then sent back to them. This fueled the decision to take advantage of a situation if it were to arise, and it DID. The criminals were not as diligent as they needed to be, and they used their OOC knowledge of the rules to influence their IC actions. Instead of making sure I got in the car, or killing me there for not complying fast enough, they allowed their knowledge of the Fear RP rule to just assume I was going to comply - which is NOT a given, IF they don't keep certain factors met, and in my opinion, they did not. My character took deliberate steps to stall them, not sure if the police had been called, and looking for ques and opportunities to take advantage of - and he was given them. I said it in-game, and I'll say it again, if all three of them had kept their guns on me from start to finish, I would have complied, or would have been shot for stalling, which in my opinion would have been perfectly acceptable RP. Instead, I paid attention to the RP, I watched for a chance, and was given one. Taking that chance may or may not have led to Damon's death (had I not been bumbling keys), but taking that chance was not a result of his lack of fear. It was the exact opposite - a real IC, role-played fear of what would happen once he got into that car. And this is why I bring up Damon's background and mindset. For him, compliance with that situation meant a fate worse than death, and therefore ANY opportunities given were going to be taken advantage of. IF the criminals had not provided him with opportunity, he would have had no choice but to comply. As it happened, Damon saw one attacker turn his back and enter a car, one attacker not paying attention, and the last attacker having to shoot through a car and chance hitting his boss in order to attack. The last one is what really did it. As soon as the last active gun placed the head criminal in the line of fire, there was going to be literally no better chance for Damon to escape. He took his chance and it failed. Which could have been great fun for all involved, but instead we all get the bitter taste of warnings and huge forum posts. My biggest concern here truly is being able to RP well and really represent the character I am playing. If they had done this to the reporter alt that I had been planning on making, under no circumstances would he have tried to escape. But Damon isn't a reporter...he's had guns pointed at him, and he's run from people shooting at him, neither of which sound like unrealistic or uncommon practices for a gangbanger. And I'm not trying to say the rule is wrong, but I do think some regard has to be given to the state of the game world and the characters that inhabit it. I also believe admins should be empowered to make case-by-case determinations in order to best serve the community, because in a game like this, conflict is what breeds fun. And sometimes conflicts are going to end badly, especially when two of the wrong personalities clash. But punishment isn't always necessary, even with messy endings. Why should your appeal be accepted?: First and foremost, my appeal should be accepted because I truly did not violate the spirit of the rule, or the integrity of the game world. My characters actions were not taken due to a lack of fear, but because of an abundance of it. In a world such as GTA, having to sprint away from a vehicle while shooting at hostiles isn't necessarily something that would be out of line, and seeing that person gunned down and/or robbed would also be entirely appropriate. That would be a perfectly acceptable resolution to a RP scenario(and cool as hell to watch), and I don't see any need for punishments or warnings in a case such as that, as long as actual IC RP reasons were demonstrated. My character did not come barrelling out of the bank screaming "YIPPEE KAYEE MOTHERFUCKER" with guns blazing. I RPed the fear of the gun on him. I continued to RP the fear of guns being on him, until the fear was mitigated the absolute most it could have been. I may expect too much out of other players. I may expect too much out of the game world. But for me, had I been the criminal with the rifle, there is no way I move at ALL except to get a BETTER angle, until the victim is in the car. Instead he moved BEHIND a vehicle, with his boss in the direct line of fire. That means he raises the rifle up to shoulder height to shoot over the car, or he shoots through the car, and his boss. When that criminal made that move, I made mine, and it's that simple. It was a judgement call that led to my character's death, and I'm fine with that, because it 100% fit the nature of the character and the situation. But I don't think I deserve a warning or reprimand for it. I will wholeheartedly volunteer that I mangled the UI controls and it became a distorted mess of flailing arms and gunfire when I made my move, and that certainly didn't help matters. But the spirit of the rule was not broken by me in the slightest. Criminals should have to be diligent enough to maintain control, and victims should have the ability to take chances when they aren't, as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of their move, which I am. By the same token, aggressors and criminals should actually have to be fearful of committing certain acts in certain areas, and in front of certain people. This is the second time I've been gunned down by the lead criminal in this scenario, and the first time was at the mechanics shop, in front of several witnesses and two reporters. I LOVE that it happened. It was an AWESOME roleplay. I don't want to see anyone get warnings or bans or punished at all - but that criminal should now be dealing with the repercussions of those actions, such as APB manhunts or the like. Otherwise it's an injustice to those of us who actually do RP fear in a victim role. I hate quoting rules because I truly think the discussion here lies in the spirit of the rule, and whether the actions taken actually hurt the game world, in defiance of its spirit, or if they were simply the actions Damon Black would have taken when put into that one, particular scenario that unfolded in all of it's madness. With that being said, if I must present protocol or rule based evidence, there are many passages that would be pertinent. Section 3.1 in Fear Roleplay states that a character's life is not in danger if: "An attacker aims their firearm at you, while you are in a vehicle. This situation would allow you to duck your head behind the wheel and either flee, or attempt to run the attacker over with your vehicle;" This section is pertinent because it applies to my conduct while inside my vehicle. I was being harassed by seemingly hostile players while I had a gun in my hand, behind the wheel of my car. I was within RP rights to attempt to evade, escape, or fight back. As the encounter and pursuit escalated, I made my way to the bank and came into contact with a News Reporter. At this point, Sections 1 and 2 in 5.4 No Crime Zones becomes important. Section 2 identifies The block surrounding and the interior of the Los Santos Bank as a No Crime Zone. Section 1 states: "No crime zones are areas on the map which are against the rules to initiate crimes at even with an in-character reason to do so. This means that while in these areas, you must obey the law and not commit obvious crimes as it would be unrealistic to commit crimes here due to heavy security / surveillance presence. Exceptions to this rule can be previously scheduled and discussed with Senior Administrator or Head Administrator as a planned server event." These sections are important because they designate the bank as a no crime zone, and while the rule states crimes cannot be initiated there, I believe the spirit of the rule implies that there would be massive IC repercussions to anyone who committed crimes in that area, whether they started elsewhere or not. So while not technically breaking the rules, the character would have to demonstrate some kind of desperation or other IC reasons for HAVING to commit that crime under so much risk. After arriving at the bank, seeing the cameras, and the NEWS VAN sitting there, the criminals had more of an obligation to Fear RP than they displayed. It is my argument that once I arrived at the bank, made contact with the news person, and requested police presence, that should have ended the criminal's justification for continuing that robbery. It is my assumption that their goal was to rob me of my prize money. If it were, then I would argue that the robbery RP was ended once I deposited the money, and a NEW kidnapping RP was INITIATED at the bank. Wherein the criminals' intent switched from stealing my money, to stealing my person. If that is the case, then the entire second RP that led to my warning was invalid due to being started at the bank, and therefore I think the EXTREME extenuating circumstances surrounding this whole thing warrant a removal of both warnings. I truly feel I did RP not only fear for my characters life, but also his status and livelihood within the game world, as well as what would be EXPECTED of him by his fellow gang members. If I am wrong, and the criminals' intent all along was to kidnap me, then Section 4 under 5.2. Assassinations, Hostage Situations becomes important. Section 4 under 5.2. Assassinations, Hostage Situations states: "At least five criminals are required to start a major hostage situation. This involves situations where players are taken hostage, moved significantly to a new location, and possibly a ransom demand for their release or safety." I think everyone involved in the situation would agree that at least the second half of the encounter was an attempted hostage situation, and as the criminals only had 3 people in their group, it is a clear rule violation. One that was most likely implemented to help keep situations like this from arising, where the true "hopelessness" of the situation can very much be in doubt. I would argue I was placed in a scenario outside of the rules, and therefore any actions I took were simply my attempt to remain IC and true to RP while in that invalid state. Finally, I would argue that with how many positions within the game hinge upon questions such as "Have you ever received a warning or punishment from an Admin?", I feel that these warnings are going to have a disproportionately negative effect on my success and advancement in the game world, certainly more so than other players involved in this situation. I simply don't want to be hit with a warning about failing to RP, when if anything, it was an over abundance of RP that caused my character's actions. Post any evidence or further details: Attached proof of my Leadership position in Rancho Triple Six Gangster Disciples, which alludes to my mental state and why I made the decisions I did. Also attached proof of the double warning, in case that was in error.