[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

7 minutes ago, Ryzoft said:

I think there are a lot of factors to be considered here. Lets remember that we are playing on a roleplay server intended to be fun at its core. Rules are supposed to protect players but not serve as a safety net for IC situations. The rule is extremely vague and subjective. Lets break down the rule and look at the problems with it. 

Robberies are to be conducted in a realistic manner and require the robber to have a reasonable in character motive. High risk, but little reward robberies are deemed unrealistic and should not be performed. Robberies should be performed in secluded areas where there is a low chance to be seen by witnesses.

 

 So firstly,

 Robberies are to be conducted in a realistic manner 

This means that, while conducting a robbery you would have a weapon and a covered face to conceal your identity. 

require the robber to have a reasonable in character motive. High risk, but little reward robberies are deemed unrealistic and should not be performed.

This is where things get opinionated. These are extremely vague and should definitely be clarified in the future. In my opinion seeing someone with a pistol, high value car is a good enough reward. Little reward would be if the player has no pistol, is driving a low valued car and is simply minding their own business. This is to protect legal RPers and I respect that fully. 

Robberies should be performed in secluded areas where there is a low chance to be seen by witnesses.

Now, this is also very subjective. From the video seen it is an empty gas station in the middle of nowhere. In a realistic scinario there would not be anyone here or maybe at the most 1 other person likely inside the store. Gas stations in the desert are NOT busy populated areas at all and if you simply google desert gas station on google you can see hundreds of pictures of empty lonely gas stations looking just like the scenario posted. There was a low chance a witness would pass by and see this robbery. 

 

Lets discuss "realism"

The point of realism is to make us feel immersed in this roleplay world. However, we must also remember this is a game that we want to enjoy and have fun on. Now I will accept that in the city in the middle of one of the busiest roads in the middle of the day is not realistic at all. Now, this is in the case that you are literally in the middle of the road with 5 men all surrounded them with large guns. What is a realistic robbery in the day light on a busy street? They happen and I can assure you they are not rare at all. Robberies take place on busy places in the day as much as night. How would you conduct a realistic robbery in the day on a busy street? Here are some ideas but with the vague language of the rules are still not allowed. 

 

Pocket robbery 

/me would put his hand into his pocket and grabs ahold of his pistol making it point out the jacket 

/me would make a head gesture to signal [player] to look at the pistol 

"You see this? You want to die?"

This player would now be under fearRP as RPly a pistol is pointed at him and he would be forced to quickly hand over his possessions. 

 

This is a realistic robbery that happens in cities all the time. Mostly with knives however it still happens with guns. A gas station in the middle of nowhere in my opinion would be a valid place to rob someone as long as there are no witnesses (REAL PLAYERS)

 

 

Do these look like busy high risk areas to you? 

 

 

I would high recommend appealing this using the points I have stated.  

I agree with you 100%, how would I go about to appeal this?

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

38 minutes ago, kenichis said:

Robberies IRL have witnesses that can direct the police. In Eclipse its not possible. Plus what are you gonna rob anyways? A GPS? Theres no point.

If robbing people where witnesses are like in the city, they would phone the police, and also there are more than a GPS to obtain. Also there's a point, the RP. Criminal RP. YOu're basically suggesting to remove criminal RP. This server should be called Eclipse No Criminal only civilian RP

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

9 minutes ago, Dashingly said:

I'm open to changing my mind on this but what everyone else is saying doesn't invalidate the OP's points.

It's 10:30 PM in game time. That means that there will be a small amount of people on the roads/in the area because people will be in bed or at home. He's in an already rural part of the map which would also reduce the amount of people on the roads. He's fully masked up and unidentifiable and has found someone alone in the dark with not a lot of people around

IMO, that's the exact type of environment we should be robbing in. I took the new rule to mean that we can't rob someone at mid-day in a clothing store because that would be totally unrealistic (lots of people around, and in an already crowded area during peak times.

If not here, then where can people do this kind of roleplay?

That's my point, I'm glad some people understand.

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

7 minutes ago, Gekko said:

Server is trying to move from shitty rp, stop being like a fucking ex and looking at the past how it was before, just move on and improve yourself.

Shitty RP? You mean boring RP with just talking and no action? There is nothing to afraid of and your permit for you gun will be useless because you will never get to use it. It's like DAYZ, you hate dying and starting over, but that risk makes the game so much more fun and exciting. They are removing a core element with this new no robbing rules.

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Stokes said:

Obviously, but then again, there's also the no high-risk, low-reward rule in place—and these combined really limit the number of opportunities a criminal can perform the act of robbery.

Wouldn't this then mean that for a robbery to be considered valid, you'd have to hide in the woods or an alley way, and hope that somebody you've previously interacted with, and had gathered sufficient OOC evidence that he'd IC-ly "objectively" be "worth robbing", randomly comes and walks through that area alone?

I understand that the server had an unreasonable amount of robbery occurrences, to the point where players expected to be robbed as soon as they'd leave the NCZ, but I don't think this is the way to solve that problem... it's the opposite extreme and will only lead to further destroying and limiting the criminal roleplay.

You're 100% right. The criminal life in this server is boring and extremly limited. 

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

9 minutes ago, Yputi said:

"Moving forward, we're going to disallow robberies from taking place in areas that would realistically be populated or areas with many player witnesses. Areas that are realistically populated could be highways, clothing stores, gas stations etc etera. "

How come there are witnesses in crimes IRL? Well because crime happens even tough there are witnesses. This law enforces civilian life and downgrade criminal life in this server. This rule is not even stated in the rules. Where did you find this information?

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

5 minutes ago, Yputi said:

I mean, its stated in their rules. Can't really go against that tbh.

What is stated in their rules? That you cant rob at gas stations?

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

5 minutes ago, Stimo said:

You have to think, would you rob someone here IRL and not be seen.. unfortunately with RAGE we have ghost towns, but in real life areas, like the one you chose, would have people using the road.. the shops in the area.. the gas station..
Sometimes common sense is required when performing these acts so we can be as close to realism as possible. Just because no one on the server was around, does't make the area secluded. 

I haven't played on the server for some time, but I believe the direction the staff want these robberies to be taken are.. away from what would seem public areas.. go down an alley way.. behind a wall.. in the woods/forest.. etc.

Hopefully this helps a little. 

So you are telling me robberis only happen in alleys and forests? That's highly unlikely. I feel that the person that gets robbed are sore losers who cant deal with the downs in a RP scenario. Everything has ups and downs. If you remove the downs then it will be unrealistic and boring. This basically makes it impossible to rob people. Which is unrealistic and boring.

Here are some real life stats of where real life robberies happen.
 

• 2% of robberies happen at banks.
• 2.5% of robberies occur at gas stations.
• 16% of robberies happen in a victim’s residence.
• 6% of robberies take place at convenience stores.
• 43% of robberies take place on streets and highways.
• 14% of robberies occur at commercial housing complexes (apartments/condos).
• Approximately 17% of robberies transpire in locations other than those listed above!
  
  Source: https://www.globalsecurityexperts.com/home-security-2/crime-prevention-advice/robbery-statistics-and-tips.html

[Was this robbery unrealistic?]

So me and my friend decided to rob a guy at a gas station in the middle of the desert, we had masks, there were no witnesses and it happend during night time. Keep in mind, these types of robberies happen every day in USA. So this is not anything unrealistic. He claims the area was not secluded, how more secluded can it be than in the middle of the desert?

I saved the video so you can take a look the conversation and share your opinion of whether im right or wrong.

The Admin decided to kick me where he claims I had a bad attitude, I had no bad attitude I just argumentet against his points and he had no valid answer so he decided to kick me to redo the application process.

Video link: https://streamable.com/zt7vom

EDIT BELOW:

His claims and mine

His claim:  A car worth 10k chopping plus a gun is not a good reward. My claim: people steal cars that are worth 3k chopping and scam people on guns worth 3-5k, so how cant a total of 13-15k be a good reward?

His claim:  A lonely gas station at night in the desert is a highly populated area. My claim: These kind of gas stations get robbed daily in the USA. So if a lonely gas station is a populated are, what is the los santos bank compared to that?

His claim: Gas stations are poplulated with cameras. My claim: What can a CCTV do against two robbers with masks?

EDIT 2 Below: 

Here are some real life stats of where real life robberies happen.
 

• 2% of robberies happen at banks.
• 2.5% of robberies occur at gas stations.
• 16% of robberies happen in a victim’s residence.
• 6% of robberies take place at convenience stores.
• 43% of robberies take place on streets and highways.
• 14% of robberies occur at commercial housing complexes (apartments/condos).
• Approximately 17% of robberies transpire in locations other than those listed above!
  
  These stats are out of 400,000 incidents a year. 2.5 procent of that is 10.000.
  
  Source: https://www.globalsecurityexperts.com/home-security-2/crime-prevention-advice/robbery-statistics-and-tips.html