[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

1 hour ago, Reckless311 said:

You're arguing on a slippery slope.  Yes, those things can drive players away, but as others have said that is PART OF THE GAME.  Rampant harassment is NOT part of the game. 

 

Furthermore, simply because YOU don't see the behavior, doesn't mean it isn't there.  You simply aren't privy to what a lot of the females go through, obviously.  It's very narrow minded to say "I don't see it, so it doesn't exist".  Do you deny that it's raining for someone in a different area of your city if it's not raining in your area?  That's about how silly your argument sounds.  Many people have seen it and it's vile and disgusting.  The crimes you're describing are PART of the game, I don't understand where your disconnect from this argument is.  

Sorry, but this isn't apples and oranges. If your end goal is an inclusive or enjoyable game, people who skirt the line of what's acceptable (such as targeting and robbing new players specifically) impedes that far more than sexism, something that is both less frequent and more easily avoided (not using your microphone vs. being a new player.)

Honestly this thread has no reason to exist at this point. The original poster fled, there's already a rule in place against OOC harassment and everything else is arguing semantics.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

12 minutes ago, Reckless311 said:

So you're ok that allowing this behavior basically making the server so toxic and hostile for women that they'll just stop playing?  I thought inclusivity was the goal and drawing more people in, not forcing them away.  Some of it is expected, but not the constant barrage that a lot of women experience here.  Thankfully this can be discussed openly with rational and open-minded people. 

Robbing brand new players trying to fish (or do other mundane starting jobs) does more to chase people away than sporadic bouts of in-character sexism, but that's not going to go away. Just as an example.

The point I'm making is whether you want to call it "Grand Theft Auto" or not, you are playing on a server that enables all manner of terrible, heinous crime. People can already be absolutely terrible here through their characters, undertaking every bad thing you can think of, and they get away with it all the time. Demonizing specific aspects of this crime-ridden environment, such as sexism or racism, is a truly pointless exercise. It's even more pointless when nobody can give any concrete examples or propositions for rule adjustments, other than vague demands to end bigotry.

If players happen to express those sentiments in OOC, and you aren't okay with it, then there is already a rule you can cite to encourage the admin team to take action. Use it rather than limit the sort of characters you can play. God knows we don't need characters becoming even more generic than they already are.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

2 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Wow dude thanks for letting me know that playing an online video game that revolved around the cops and robbers theme means that I can get called a ''nigger'' and ''faggot'' for no real purpose, but I guess because we're playing a GTA game everything is ok in your mind 

 

Not even gonna try anymore, it's clear to me that you're either purposely being obtuse or worst yet you unironically see nothing wrong with this... The purpose of bringing up other communities is to outline that they understand that despite the fact that they are hosting a server based on criminals and cops environment even then they have a hard line on racism and homophobia (as well as other aspects) because these issues go beyond a game and affect a big portion people OOC'ly, unlike simply playing a GTA esque game. How are you unable to understand this ?

You're right, I don't see any problem. Restricting rude, bigoted or unpleasant characters is senseless. We already have an ample server population of murderers and criminals, both petty and professional, already. Plenty of rapists, too. Enforcing etiquette should be the last thing on anybody's mind (at least in-character), yet here we are, sincerely arguing that female players/characters get special treatment because of their chromosomes. 

Honest question: Why is being bigoted worse than serious crime? Is it really that much worse if someone calls you "faggot" while holding you at gunpoint & making off with your car? If the OP is being harassed out-of-character for being a girl then yes, we should punish for that. But in-character I see no reason to ordain that a crime so heinous it's verboten. 

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

20 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

just look at literally any RP community in any game ever, there is always without fault at least a rule with regards to racism or homophobia

Wow, I never thought about it that way. How could I have been so blind? Truly the freedom to brutally murder people, rob them or engage in life-ruining, community-destroying criminal enterprise is fine, but calling someone "nigger" or "faggot" when character-appropriate is simply too much for the Grand Theft Auto universe. And disrespecting women? I'm surprised there aren't massive penalties for that already, it's far worse than shooting somebody in the face for his wallet.

Thank you for enlightening me. 

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

17 minutes ago, Malcolm Carter said:

It's actually very easy, most of us witness it daily on the server. You are being strangely defensive, don't you think female players have better insight and experience of the issue?

I'm just staggered that you would spend so much time arguing against the point of this well intentioned and important thread

I've seen no evidence whatsoever that the OP's issue is as commonplace as he's implied. I get the feeling we won't see any either. All I've seen is pleas to re-read posts that didn't make sense during the first read through, let alone several times after.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

3 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

Again, it is happening ICly not OOC though, as stated before, it picks up when VOIP is used confirming my OOC gender. Along with this as I've along with others have stated, more time would be spent recording and reporting just to be met with "it's my roleplay" as a reason. You can chose to believe there is not a present issue if you please. Judging from the post reception I would be inclined to say that multiple people have seen or experienced this behavior. Combine that with the lack of reporting will show you that it's not an easily reportable thing right now.

Are you complaining about OOC harassment or IC harassment? One is against the rules and the admin team can handle it; the other is something you can opt out of if it makes you uncomfortable. Both problems have solutions that you may use right now. And if you think these two options don't work, why would you demand more rules if the current ones are, apparently, not being enforced properly?

This is why I mentioned earlier we're missing vital details. It's hard to sympathize with vague accusations of omnipresent sexism.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

39 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

IThere is presently a targeted group of players on the server and we are here to try to find possible solutions to make the server a more welcoming place while not stripping away roleplay freedoms. You say "file a report to the admin team" yet as it stands, there is nothing to report because no rules have been technically broken. There are no rules or guidelines in place for some of the behavior that occurs which is the ultimate issue.

"It is prohibited to intimidate players from playing on the server or to continuously harass them in the game for OOC reasons to purposely make their game experience poor."

There's the rule. If someone is breaking it somehow, like continuously annoying you OOC because you're a woman, you can file a complaint using the above.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

On 7/10/2019 at 6:11 AM, Kyle White Raven said:

An issue that exclusively affects one portion of the player base, nothing that can be done AT THE MOMENT because of the lack of rules and regulation but I guess there is ''no fix'' in your eyes.

 

I wonder if the racism clause hadn't been written if you would say that there is ''no fix'' for a player being called the n word multiple times and people not stopping even after being told OOC'ly... The point of this thread is to discuss the issue and come up with solutions going forward, but I guess that's hard for some.

If it's in-character for somebody to say "nigger" then I don't see an issue. Similarly, if it's in-character for somebody to catcall or harass women (and it probably will be; half of you roleplay blatant gang-bangers or people otherwise not known for proper etiquette) I still see no issue. This is Grand Theft Auto; it's a near-certainty you will roleplay with characters best described as the absolute detritus of human society. If parts of that make you uncomfortable you always have the power to leave that particular roleplay situation, or if the player insists on following you and being annoying, file a report to the admin team. What are they going to do? Cry because you wouldn't stick around and be called "roastie" or "cunt" fifty times?

The only way to improve this situation is to cite a rule already in place: if someone is insufferable OOC, file a complaint against them. Anything further will just give certain groups or characters advanced privileges that don't do anything to improve RP.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

41 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

I don't see a lack of vital information anywhere. As I want no part of those scenarios, I do what I can to navigate and end/get away from the situation. I explore all avenues that make sense ICly and all but hightail it out. What is said OOCly means nothing ICly as there is nothing that enforces it. If somebody wants to be an ass and you ask them to chill OOCly, they are under absolutely no bounds required to do so, therefore, there is nothing to file a complaint about. If complaints were made of the forums via reports, it would be so frequent it's absurd and the age old response would be "it's my roleplay."

Sounds like there's nothing to "fix" then. Take care.

[Toxic Sexism On The Server]

10 hours ago, Aldarine said:

Yes, this is the internet. Yes, there are trolls. Yes, you do need somewhat of a tough layer of skin when committing yourself to this. When it gets to the point of impacting your RP time and enjoyment is when it becomes a bigger issue. Personally, I have been forced into an RP scenario for over an hour consisting of nothing but sexist aggression with absolutely no way out - trust me I tried - that completely ruined what I hoped to be a fun RP day. Again, this is not a one time thing, it happens over and over. 

What exactly did you try? Did you leave the character/group who was annoying you behind, then find roleplay someplace else? If they followed you, did you try doing what what make sense in real life (calling the police)? If you told the players you were uncomfortable OOCly, and they continued harassing you anyway, did you file any kind of complaint? What constitutes "sexist aggression" to you?

There's a big absence of vital information here.