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Ronnie Moretti

Dylan_Greenwood (29) - NRP/Player Theft/OOC & IC Interactions

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Player(s) being reported: ID 29
Date of interaction reported: 17-09-2021.
Unix time stamp from HUD: 67 | 1631909850 

Your character name: Ronnie Moretti
Other player(s) involved

Specific rule(s) broken:

9. Non Roleplay (NRP)

  • Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay.

 

15. Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

  • Robberies should be conducted in a realistic manner with reasonable in-character motive using secluded areas. Players should not conduct minor robberies in situations with high risk. Desert or forest areas are considered secluded but witnesses should still be considered.

How did the player break the rule(s)?  (300 words maximum)\
ID 29 came up to me in a very public area (city parking) and asked if he could buy my Phantom. I reluctantly agreed after we had haggled a price and we RP'ly signed a contract for $105,000. He goes to the bank (or pretends to) and comes back. He then does a /me to hand me the envelope. This is still in city parking where we started originally, very public. He then PM's me to discuss the transfer of the vehicle and asks for me to transfer the vehicle and he will handover the cash at the same time. I do the command to transfer the vehicle and I RP taking the envelope. He then pays me via /pay $1050. Now this envelope would be a LOT different had there been $105,000 in as agreed. Obviously we cannot tell the amount of cash beforehand and I feel the player used this to his advantage. He obviously conducted a robbery/scam in a very public place with many people as witnesses which I feel is NRP. I was also unaware of a way to stop the transfer of a vehicle when you believe to be being scammed (I don't know if there is a way on the server).

Evidence of rule breach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNf_6Wksxdk - The Interaction. 

 


530859662_GrandTheftAutoVScreenshot2021_09.17-21_27_19_19.thumb.png.68a92afd5ff9c8e0cc4e1a42534108d5.png442900805_GrandTheftAutoVScreenshot2021_09.17-21_32_46_42.thumb.png.6f660b972cc0e5d66aceb8de7455f94e.png

Edited by Ronnie Moretti
Added YT Link
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PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • [Notified In-Game] - Dylan_Greenwood (29) - Please explain your point of view in regard to the reported situation and provide any evidence that you may have. In addition, we'd like you to answer the following question(s):
    - Can you supply proof of RP of what was placed inside the envelope before arriving at city parking to complete the exchange?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Kazjii & Senior Support Arrta

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2 hours ago, Arrta said:

PENDING RESPONSE
―――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • [Notified In-Game] - Dylan_Greenwood (29) - Please explain your point of view in regard to the reported situation and provide any evidence that you may have. In addition, we'd like you to answer the following question(s):
    - Can you supply proof of RP of what was placed inside the envelope before arriving at city parking to complete the exchange?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Kazjii & Senior Support Arrta

Hello! Thank you admins for taking this report. By RP proof are you asking for me grabbing the money out of the ATM? My body cam record in 5 min increments and when he tells me to save POV the 5 min increment begins when we are in the parking lot, so no new evidence can be seen except for what you can see in his video. The envelope as a method of handing the money over was just a place holder in the RP because an envelope would create more realistic RP than simply handing over a large sum of dollars. That being said I did take MANY different steps to ensure that there was no Powergaming of any sort when using the /pay command. Firstly, the amount of $1050 was very intentional, as $1050 in one dollar bills is the same number of bills, therefore the same weight, as $105,000 in $100 bills. (this accounts for this part of the report He then pays me via /pay $1050. Now this envelope would be a LOT different had there been $105,000 in as agreed.) Additionally, knowing the power of /pay and not being able to see the amount of money received immediately I made sure to allow the other party (67) a LARGE amount of time, as can be seen in his POV, to check and count the amount of cash given.  I wanted to ensure 67 had a fair chance in the RP and was not getting screwed by forceful commands, therefore I remained on scene until he checked his pocket using /stats and RP'd counting the money. I was on scene with 67 an entire 2 MINUTES, which can be confirmed in his footage, after giving him the cash. How in any way did me handing him an envelope containing $1050 grant me an unfair advantage? (Obviously we cannot tell the amount of cash beforehand and I feel the player used this to his advantage. ) It was not until AFTER we had established RPly the amount of money given that I began to make a move towards exiting the scene. I did this to allow 67 a fair shot at taking the RP whatever direction he wanted, whether it be by pursuing me, or contacting law enforcement. Instead of continuing the RP in any meaningful way 67 simply sat back in City Parking and began Pming, depriving me of a fun RP scenario that he likely could have came out on top on if he pursued the Phantom with his sports car (a very easy chase). 67 pulled over to begin PMing me which was in my mind pretty NRP like and buzzkilled the scenario.

In my opinion I did WAY MORE than expected or required to give 67 a fair chance and he simply did not take it. Any possible "Powergaming" or "NRP" that could even be imagined in using the word "envelope" in my /me is quickly overturned by my concerted effort to make sure he has full knowledge of the envelopes contents and used /stats to sort through them. To me, focusing in on the word choice of an envelope is losing the entire scope of the RP and looking for a technicality. I could have said grocery bag, manila folder, anything, I gave 67 more than a fair chance and he was not deceived in any way by what was given. In my opinion this scenario is something he needs to settle ICly with law enforcement.

Edited by DC2MT74
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4 hours ago, DC2MT74 said:

Hello! Thank you admins for taking this report. By RP proof are you asking for me grabbing the money out of the ATM? My body cam record in 5 min increments and when he tells me to save POV the 5 min increment begins when we are in the parking lot, so no new evidence can be seen except for what you can see in his video. The envelope as a method of handing the money over was just a place holder in the RP because an envelope would create more realistic RP than simply handing over a large sum of dollars. That being said I did take MANY different steps to ensure that there was no Powergaming of any sort when using the /pay command. Firstly, the amount of $1050 was very intentional, as $1050 in one dollar bills is the same number of bills, therefore the same weight, as $105,000 in $100 bills. (this accounts for this part of the report He then pays me via /pay $1050. Now this envelope would be a LOT different had there been $105,000 in as agreed.) Additionally, knowing the power of /pay and not being able to see the amount of money received immediately I made sure to allow the other party (67) a LARGE amount of time, as can be seen in his POV, to check and count the amount of cash given.  I wanted to ensure 67 had a fair chance in the RP and was not getting screwed by forceful commands, therefore I remained on scene until he checked his pocket using /stats and RP'd counting the money. I was on scene with 67 an entire 2 MINUTES, which can be confirmed in his footage, after giving him the cash. How in any way did me handing him an envelope containing $1050 grant me an unfair advantage? (Obviously we cannot tell the amount of cash beforehand and I feel the player used this to his advantage. ) It was not until AFTER we had established RPly the amount of money given that I began to make a move towards exiting the scene. I did this to allow 67 a fair shot at taking the RP whatever direction he wanted, whether it be by pursuing me, or contacting law enforcement. Instead of continuing the RP in any meaningful way 67 simply sat back in City Parking and began Pming, depriving me of a fun RP scenario that he likely could have came out on top on if he pursued the Phantom with his sports car (a very easy chase). 67 pulled over to begin PMing me which was in my mind pretty NRP like and buzzkilled the scenario.

In my opinion I did WAY MORE than expected or required to give 67 a fair chance and he simply did not take it. Any possible "Powergaming" or "NRP" that could even be imagined in using the word "envelope" in my /me is quickly overturned by my concerted effort to make sure he has full knowledge of the envelopes contents and used /stats to sort through them. To me, focusing in on the word choice of an envelope is losing the entire scope of the RP and looking for a technicality. I could have said grocery bag, manila folder, anything, I gave 67 more than a fair chance and he was not deceived in any way by what was given. In my opinion this scenario is something he needs to settle ICly with law enforcement.

Thank you admins for taking the time to review this report. 

So, this initial interaction all starts with ID 29 having this in his mind "Firstly, the amount of $1050 was very intentional" - ID 29 before any transaction has even started IC'ly, he PM's me OOC to sway the interaction in his favour. He's tried to use an OOC method to gain an IC advantage by gaining my trust even more via the PMs. When giving me the envelope, as with any sale, you would check the contents of the envelope which I did at the time. Now realistically, if I wasn't handed the full amount I would still be in possession of the vehicle keys! At this point, I would've been able to retrieve the documents back but still be in FULL control of the situation. I'd be able to lock the truck and in a REAL life situation, the BUYER would be powerless to the scam without the server scripts. I'm always sceptical when selling vehicles in the city anyway and I would always ask for the cash first on each occasion (my character is a legal character and I have no intention to scam anybody IC or OOC). 

Quote

I was on scene with 67 an entire 2 MINUTES

How was I expected to deal with this? ID 29 exploited the trust via PM's before the sale, potentially exploited the /transfervehicle offer because I don't know a way of this being retracted (if any at all and I believe the player knew this) and he'd just committed the ROBBERY let's call it in a VERY public place. As can be seen in the footage there are MULTIPLE witnesses here at the time, during the day and one was an off duty PD officer! Because I believed this was conducted in such a way, I don't believe I had any choice to resolve this IC'ly via Law Enforcement or by pursuing the player as without him physically transferring the vehicle back to me scriptly, I was powerless. Which is why, unfortunately, this report needed to be made on the forums. Again, thank you to the Admins for their time and efforts.

Edited by Ronnie Moretti
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Looking back at the situation this probably could have been solved by an in-game report to the Admins but in the heat of the moment, I was trying to get all of my footage together to make sure it wasn't lost. I was also trying to get to a private place where I was free to grab all of the footage without being disturbed IC'ly by people I knew at public parking. By the time this had happened ID 29 had logged out and left the City. 

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PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • @Ronnie Moretti - Ronnie_Moretti - Do you have a screenshot/video of the Contract RP?

  • @DC2MT74 - Dylan_Greenwood (29) - Do you have a screenshot/video of the Contract RP?
    - Do you have a screenshot of the RP of obtaining an envelope and placing the $1050 of ones ($1 bills) inside?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Kazjii & Senior Support Arrta

Edited by Arrta
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When he told me to save POV the 5 minutes prior did not reach the bank nor the contract, the contract was made using a fake name, ID 67 did not check my license to confirm the name. Additionally the contract was signed on my phone, he did not ask for a copy

"Now realistically, if I wasn't handed the full amount I would still be in possession of the vehicle keys!"

This is not true, we handed each other the items at the same time. To minimize that risk you should have asked me to count the money in the envelope ICly before handing it over.

I do have this image of me deleting it as it was in the time frame

T3YwXjz.png

 

"ID 29 before any transaction has even started IC'ly, he PM's me OOC to sway the interaction in his favour"

This is false. It does not happen. Please check the logs.

As far as the PM goes we had already exchanged the items rply with /mes of handing over the items simultaneously. The PM was me asking how he would like to scriptly represent that transaction in a fair way, because and ask how he would like to use /pay and /transfervehicle IC.

"and he'd just committed the ROBBERY let's call it in a VERY public place."

This scam was very low risk for multiple reasons. Anyone arriving to the scene sees 1.The vehicle registered to me name 2. no evidence of a contract 3. multiple people there for he purpose of backing up my story.

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You can see in that image me in 67's Phantom leaving the scene, and instead of pursuing him sitting in his car PMing me. Had he called 911 they would've been on scene by now. I did not take advantage of any powerful commands as I gave ID 67 every chance in the world to sway the rp in his favor. In my opinion the scam was a result of negligence on his end in ensuring a safe transaction.

Edited by DC2MT74
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4 hours ago, Arrta said:

PENDING RESPONSE
―――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • @Ronnie Moretti - Ronnie_Moretti - Do you have a screenshot/video of the Contract RP?

  • @DC2MT74 - Dylan_Greenwood (29) - Do you have a screenshot/video of the Contract RP?
    - Do you have a screenshot of the RP of obtaining an envelope and placing the $1050 of ones ($1 bills) inside?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Kazjii & Senior Support Arrta

Unfortunately I don't. I'm sure you'd be able to check the logs and see the RP contract. ID 29 won't have footage of him placing the $1050 in $1 bills into an envelope because it didn't happen. He's just tried to scam me for a vehicle for a small amount of cash. As he's admitted to via the PM's in the screenshot, he's done a scam like this before too and somehow managed to get away with it. The mistake he made this time was the PMing me and trying to discuss the IC transaction. 

ID 29 - Like I've said above, why would I have pursued you knowing that you'd exploited the scripts of the server? Used OOC PM's to gain trust and discuss the transfer. You literally said in the PM which again, is OOC, that you would pay the cash ($105,000 as we'd, agreed IC'ly) for the truck once I had offered you the transfer. As soon as you PM you're OOC and your whole IC RP of buying the truck should be invalid. 

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21 minutes ago, Ronnie Moretti said:

Unfortunately I don't. I'm sure you'd be able to check the logs and see the RP contract. ID 29 won't have footage of him placing the $1050 in $1 bills into an envelope because it didn't happen. He's just tried to scam me for a vehicle for a small amount of cash. As he's admitted to via the PM's in the screenshot, he's done a scam like this before too and somehow managed to get away with it. The mistake he made this time was the PMing me and trying to discuss the IC transaction. 

ID 29 - Like I've said above, why would I have pursued you knowing that you'd exploited the scripts of the server? Used OOC PM's to gain trust and discuss the transfer. You literally said in the PM which again, is OOC, that you would pay the cash ($105,000 as we'd, agreed IC'ly) for the truck once I had offered you the transfer. As soon as you PM you're OOC and your whole IC RP of buying the truck should be invalid. 

ICly the transaction was ALREADY made (we already /me’d exchanging items simultaneously) therefore the PM played no part in affecting your decisions. It was only AFTER the IC transaction I PM’d to discuss what would be a fair script representation of our exchange (because that can’t be done IC). There was nothing done in this exchange that abuses the rules in anyway. I went above and beyond to present you a fair opportunity.

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7 minutes ago, DC2MT74 said:

ICly the transaction was ALREADY made (we already /me’d exchanging items simultaneously) therefore the PM played no part in affecting your decisions. It was only AFTER the IC transaction I PM’d to discuss what would be a fair script representation of our exchange (because that can’t be done IC). There was nothing done in this exchange that abuses the rules in anyway. I went above and beyond to present you a fair opportunity.

It did play a part because every vehicle I've sold, I've always taken cash first because of characters like yourself on the server. You also tried to gain trust OOC. Btw, just to add, you also said in your PM's AFTER the altercation that "I have every right to report"! Which I definitely do. This seems like a regular occurrence for yourself on the server though so if you're going to continue to scam people, try and do the full thing IC but try not to exploit server scripts where people can't cancel a vehicle transfer etc.

 

This is the last I will say on the matter, let's leave this to the admins. They have all of the evidence they need and all of the evidence has been provided on my part.

Edited by Ronnie Moretti
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REPORT ACCEPTED
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After reviewing this report and evidence attached to it, we've decided to accept this report and issue the punishments to the following player(s):

  • Dylan_Greenwood (ID 29) - Spoken to about Powergaming - While you took out $1050 in cash making it appear that it was intended to be 1050 in $1's, you failed to RP this at any point prior to the exchange. The first mention of this was in your response to the report against you. Normally we would not need you to RP taking money out from the bank, but in this instance the amount and denomination you were taking out had impact on later RP, thus it is needed.
    According to the logs we also noticed that you spammed the accepttransfer command giving the reporting party no chance to reverse the transfer.

  • Ronnie_Moretti  - Spoken to about OOC Behavior  - Once you realized you were scammed you failed to continue the RP of the scenario, instead deciding to take the issue OOC in an attempt to reverse what happened. This is something that can only be done by an admin. 
    What you should have done in this situation is OOCly informed him to save POV as you believed the situation was suspect and would like staff to review it before continuing ICly with what someone who had just been scammed would have done. Like report it to PD or chase after him.

 

Additional Comments:  @Ronnie Moretti , the vehicle will be transferred back via refund request. You will be able to make a refund request via this link - Eclipse-RP - GTA V Roleplaying Server. Please be sure to link this report within your evidence.

 

If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file a refund request following the refund request guidelines and format.  

 

This report will now be locked and archived.

 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Kazjii & Senior Support Artta

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