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AustiNova

Fear Roleplay Against Police.

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Hey guys, I am sorry if this has already been brought up as an issue but I couldn't see it as I flicked through the suggestions! feel free to archive if this is the case.

I feel like you should only be under fear roleplay from a police officer if they have a tazer pointed at you as they will and can actually shoot, However if a cop has a firearm pointed at you it is common knowledge IRL and in this server that they are not allowed to and wont shoot real bullets at you unless you committed an aggravated crime or something against a police officer so I think it should not be fear rp to get in a vehicle and drive away if a cop is pointing a fire arm at you.. Obviously certain situations are different and I would like people who disagree with this post to educate me or tell me why they disagree as I could be wrong but I just thought this could be something brought to the server for realism and to stop constant /b or reports from cops for fear rp with guns as they wont shoot anyway.

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Bad idea. Try doing this in US, act aggressive, run towards cops or from them and resist. Gonna collect some bullets in a matter of second. As police officer in game, I have a lot of situations where even on gunpoint they resist, so take away this rule, and it's going to be madness. 

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I feel like just because you know they won't shoot you unless you do something really bad, doesn't mean you should be any less scared of the minor chance a bullet might go right through your brain.

As for tazers, I think it's fine that they don't give FearRP, even in real life people run from tazers pretty frequently or don't comply until eventually tazed.

Plus I assume cops IC do not withdraw a firearm upon you unless they believe you're armed or a threat in some way, not unlike real life.

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On 9/3/2021 at 1:04 PM, AustiNova said:

if a cop has a firearm pointed at you it is common knowledge IRL and in this server that they are not allowed to and wont shoot real bullets at you unless you committed an aggravated crime

This is not necessarily true.

All departments have guidelines about use of force, and many departments if multiple officers are trying to detain a suspect, they will cover each other with "lethal" and "less than lethal" options when they approach. That means that some officers will have tasers out, others will have their guns drawn. Unlike in the server, a taser is not 100% effective and can be defeated with baggy clothing like a hoodie therefore officers employ this safety net.

In real life, if you reach into your pockets or make sudden movements while an officer is doing an approach like this, pretty much every time you will get shot. There have even been instances where people are trying to pull up their pants that are falling down, and they get shot because of the sudden reaching towards the waistband. Very rarely are officers punished for shooting in this kind of scenario because police departments realize that the officers do not have superpowers to see the future and what you'll do, or xray vision to see through your clothes and what you're reaching for, or the ability to read minds and discover your true intentions.

And this is the normal regulation that people are expected to follow. You're seriously rolling the dice by doing this sort of thing.

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I can see where some of you are coming from.. but the LSPD and other American police departments wont and cant shoot just because you are running lol. I agree that maybe in a less funded department without tactics of non lethal this could happen but the LSPD is short of not funded, it has everything needed and 100x more, other servers employ the rule of fear rp v cops and it works perfectly and is more fun for all, just because cops become a little bit buthurt (not all just a few) and report for fear rp breaks even though they dont lose anything from them, I was just trying to stop the report war crims v cops. Thanks to everyone who commented!

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I think you are missing the point. 

Just because something is unlikely to happen does not mean it wont/can't happen. Nobody in should be playing with the idea that cops do not get fear rp if we are pointing a 50 at you just because we are unlikely to shoot at you. Reread Einharts and Balas points. 

 

1 hour ago, AustiNova said:

just because cops become a little bit buthurt (not all just a few) and report for fear rp breaks even though they dont lose anything from them

We do loose stuff. Are time is wasted with poor rp. Nobody wants to play with rule breakers so we report them.

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This is definitely not the way to approach problems with escape options. Police will shoot if they feel there is any threat to anybody, especially when it's someone who has committed violent crimes (of which 80% of ECRPs criminals have committed multiple of). I think the ideal way to handle this would be to rally for response changes on an in character level, I don't believe there needs to be OOC change here.

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There are many issues with PD/crim balance right now, but this FearRP change is not the way to go about it IMO. 

 

I definitely agree that there is a difference between a masked criminal pointing a gun at your head compared to an unmasked, badged LEO. You have no idea what a criminal will do and they might not care at all if they kill you. Whereas, LEO would should have something to lose from unnecessary shooting (ie their jobs). However, FearRP should still be a thing if a LEO has a gun pointed at you, because if not it will be abused to a ridiculous extent. Plus, considering that a good proportion of police officers in game are blatantly hostile from the offset and quite trigger happy it wouldn't make sense not to fear them. Unfortunately, rather than OOC rules, I think its much more of an IC issue as there needs to be some changes made by those at the top of the SD/PD food chains regarding PD/SD protocol, such as: 5+ cars for traffic stops, drive-bying with Uzis from supercars on highway, interrogating criminal NPCs on gang turfs, camping chop shops, spike strips on congested roads and so on. Ofcourse, ICly the gov/PD/SD would push any advantage they can get away with to ensure they win as it makes sense to want to beat the criminals by any means necessary. But at the end of the day, I think these IC changes need to be made with crim/PD-balance in mind. 

 

17 hours ago, Maccy said:

I think the ideal way to handle this would be to rally for response changes on an in character level,

Considering you've just implied that IC PD/SD behaviour is influenced by criminal history (ie increased threat level based on crimes comitted), I think by the same logic police comissioners and sheriffs aren't exactly going to listen and take on board what notorious criminals have to say about PD/SD treatment and how unfair it is. Really, there does need to be IC change but it needs to be with OOC considerations too. However, I realise that when the vast majority of people that have a say in the matter are entirely focused on PD/SD/Gov characters, its hard to want to nerf themselves to buff their opponents. At some point though, someone has to bite the bullet and give PD some ever-dreaded and long-overdue nerfs. But, nerfing the ability to induce FearRP is not the way.

Edited by KrisBoyd
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I don't know why everyone says I need to pursue  this on an IC level, as a criminal how would I do this? lol.... and how would it go down IC how am I to mention cops roleplay standards and fear rp IC? do you want me to go to a commissioner randomly out of the blue and say "Hey can we chat I don't think I need to fear for my life when a cop is holding me at gunpoint"? like ..

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Yeah I agree with you. Your suggestion is entirely an OOC FearRP rule change and so this is the right place to discuss it (not ICly).

 

But, I personally think that this FearRP change is not the way to combat certain anti-fun, unrealistic and/or excessive PD/SD behaviours and that the more pressing issues could be corrected IC (or else implement NonRP punishments for repeated abusers if it must be OOCly handled). But, the issue with correcting this IC is that criminals (obviously) don't get a say on PD/SD protocol. It's really only the PD/SD/Gov higher-ups that can influence this sort of decision making and so really its on them to make the change; not us (hence why the IC changes should be done with OOC considerations [IC nerf through protocol changes for the benefit of plebeian criminals to improve our livelihood and enjoyment in the server]). The fairly recent comissioner press release about failure to comply/ identify/mask wearing and all that was a welcome step in the right direction, even though it really hasn't changed PD/SD behaviour in the slightest because of "investigation" loophole abuse and the "IA report it if you're unhappy" diatribe. However, I appreciate the effort, but more needs done!

Edited by KrisBoyd
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Thanks!, I agree but I don't understand why some people don't understand IC consequences and only believe in ooc ones.. like the issue people and staff have brought up with this is that some corrupt cops might shoot and you don't know who is corrupt... like that's fine someone is gonna get shot I guess and treated IC and that is their fault IC though they shouldn't just instantly be reported.. why can no one including the senior staff that posted on this think about IC consequences, no offense to anyone.

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From my experience, you will get shot in game if you try to run away from cops while on gunpoint. I have seen many scenes like that (in game officer myself), and seen many reports involving that. Let's say you were in a pursuit and crashed, then jumped out of the car and got encircled by officers, if you try to run towards a car or something I give you 90% that you are going to get shot and that 10% is when supervisor is on scene, so he would deal with it differently. As I stated, I saw many RP situations where ((New Players)) did not fear for their lives and got shot. This rule will only make DM reports on forums, as people will get shot and a lot.

Edited by Frezas
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I'm in the LSPD, and I somewhat agree with this. It is common knowledge that a police officer would not use deadly force on a suspect who is not an imminent threat to life. If you run away while at gunpoint by law enforcement, you would realistically not get shot unless you are holding lethal melee weapons (knife) and aggress towards someone or holding a firearm.

However, at the same time, most players on the server do not take the concept of character portrayal, meaning roleplaying a character by their traits and personalities. In real life, in the majority of the time, when someone is aimed at gunpoint, surrounded by multiple law enforcement officers, it is unlikely they would run. This is because most people are not the toughest guys, and actually have sentiments. On the other hand, in this roleplay server, it is safe to say that, from my experience so far, some or more than half of the illegal roleplayers have the play-to-win, and RPG mentality.

In conclusion, if the roleplay standard of the server was higher, I would definitely be 100% up for this rule to be removed. But at this time, this rule should stay to maintain the standard of roleplay just like any other rules on the server.

Edited by Thommy
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There is nothing wrong with playing-to-win, as long as you're able to take losing in the right spirit.

@Thommy I've never been on the business end of a firearm before but I'd speculate that if one was pointing at me, it wouldn't need to be fired for me to worry about it. You might not get shot, but does a human brain process fear like that? Not really. Fear is split into rational and irrational. In moments like that, unless you are trained to the point where you are able to control your fear, you're going to worry for your life and even with training, you are still going to have that fear of your life being ended, even if you can operate under those conditions.

When it comes to the server however, it's real simple. If we gave people the option where they didn't have to role-play fear when a weapon is pulled on them, regardless of the circumstances, there would be more people ignoring that roleplaying that fear. The same thing goes for granted death roleplay, yes, it would be great in some scenarios for the RP but you can't consistently moderate it.

People want realism until they realise the LAPD Force Matrix is less lenient on Armed Suspects than the LSPD is.

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@Bala there you go lol "People want realism until they realise the LAPD Force Matrix is less lenient on Armed Suspects than the LSPD is." as I said in my original which I don't think you have fully read I said specifically "not allowed to and wont shoot real bullets at you unless you committed an aggravated crime or something against a police officer" I said there is different situations and if you are an armed suspect then you need to fear as you will be shot lol this post is specifically for un armed / un aggravated crimes... 

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