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Mariaaaa

ID 34 (Mark_Sloan) - PG

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Player(s) being reported: ID 34
Date of interaction reported: 17/1/2021
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1610894377

Your characters name: Valentina Rodriguez

Other player(s) involved: Sam Onizuka

Specific rule(s) broken:

"

10. Powergaming (PG)

  • Powergaming is playing unfairly through not allowing other players a chance to roleplay responses and their own actions, unrealistic actions, or non-factual statements in /do.

  • Forceful commands should be used after RP or the party is unresponsive for 30 seconds.

  • Government funded faction members must go off duty when not performing faction duties IC.

  • Players must capture time stamped evidence performing RP that will potentially influence future interactions and evidence is only valid for 48 hours, death, or until others RP invalidates it.

"

How did the player break the rule(s)?

I was driving around waiting for my friend when ID 34 turned around and went after me, I tried to shake him but he caught me in an alleyway. He told me to pull over so I did. Then a few backup units came who later left again. He got back to me and told me I had my license suspended and that the car will be impounded, at that time I realised I couldn't store my gun away in the glovebox. I knew I was gonna get arrested for illegal firearm probably times two which is quite a while behind bars. In the mean time our people set up in the area and my friend who I dropped off earlier came running on foot. And as he approached the car I got out and the cop pulled his gun. He then tried to fire back instead of surrendering to the demands. While he shot at us he somehow clicked his panic button two times while both his hands were on his gun. This allowed us no time whatsoever knowing their backup couldn't have gone far. Because of this we couldn't take the SD card from the bodycam and/or dashcam and resulted in me getting charges stacked afterwards. In my opinion this is powergaming as in no possible way could he have reached for his radio while shooting a gun with two hands.


powergame.thumb.jpg.7d3189bf2d250977da2959295e11b343.jpg

Evidence of rule breach:

https://streamable.com/6u66fo

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REPORT PENDING

Thank you for creating this player report.

The following people will be tagged/notified to give their side of the story within the next 24 hours:

  • Player ID 34 Mark_Sloan [Notified In-Game] - Can you explain your side of the story to this situation and upload any footage you may have in relation to this? In the footage provided, you were seen aiming and then shooting back at the individuals who attacked you. On top of that, after the roll and mid-shooting you proceeded to drop two panic alarms. Do you believe that your actions were realistic while you continued to shoot at the people and drop multiple panic alarms?

What happens if the person does not respond? We will review the evidence again and provide our conclusion. 
What might help my case? Posting evidence of your own POV is always a very handy tool. If you don't have any evidence at your disposal, the best you can do is tell the story in full detail on how it happened on your side. Be honest and do not lie in your reply.

Regards,
Aldarine & dawpi

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Thanks for the report,

I just want to start off my response by saying that I was never told to save my POV and was completely unaware of this report being made. Per the forum rules: 

"Attempt to inform the reported player(s) of the report through tagging or screenshots of telling them via PM they have been reported."

Luckily, I saved my POV of this incident and still have it so I'll link that down below. In the future, please contact me if you plan on making a report against me. 

 

I'll offer a rebuttal to @Mariaaaa point's and then respond to the admins question.

Firstly, @Mariaaaa, do you have the full video of the situation and if so can you please upload it to give the admins full context of the situation.

5 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

I knew I was gonna get arrested for illegal firearm probably times two which is quite a while behind bars. In the mean time our people set up in the area and my friend who I dropped off earlier came running on foot.

So you are saying that you 100% knew and confirmed that you were being arrested, this is simply false. If you even watch your own POV back, I told you that were getting a citation for $500 and a 3rd demerit. At no point did I state you were under arrest. And the situation never played out like that regardless. Stating you would get charged with illegal firearm x2 is also false as no officer does that unless you are found carrying an unlicensed and a illegal firearm in which case you would be given one of each. If you were to be arrested, I wouldn't have cleared any of the units that were there.

You escalated a routine traffic stop into a cop killing.

5 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

While he shot at us he somehow clicked his panic button two times while both his hands were on his gun. This allowed us no time whatsoever knowing their backup couldn't have gone far

To address this point, it is not and has never been against the rules to talk on the radio/call for backup while shooting your gun. To call this powergaming is absurd. The game scriptly forces you to have both hands on your gun when pointing it. Our movements are limited by game mechanics, roleplay allows us to transcend these game mechanics by using /me's and /do's. When a panic is placed, you can see the /ame above my head indicating that the panic is pressed. This is an intended script in place to negate any sort of powergaming that could occur.

83c33d58f2cfbbee38de5c09d7f39246.png

Furthermore, i hope you hold your own faction members to the same standards that I am held to. During this scenario even your own ally (the one who runs up and shoots at me) also talks on the radio while shooting at me/pointing his weapon and reloading his gun meaning both of his hands are occupied RPly. visually and scriptly, would he have been powergaming as well? Check screenshot here:

https://i.gyazo.com/397afb5d943805088671eed007dcb044.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5650bd95691e8c1cdac00608920e17b6.png

Before addressing the staff members, I just want to reiterate once again: This was a routine traffic stop, at no point was Valentina ever going to be arrested, and the vehicle wasn't even going to be impounded as I gave her permission to get a friend to drive it away. They escalated a $500 fine into a shootout with little to no RP whatsoever besides "Hands. Hands." followed by shooting me.

I believe this is the sort of RP that the server is trying to move away from, and borderline DM. It seemed like your group just wanted to get into a shootout and wasn't interested in the RP. This is evident by the fact that before this routine traffic stop has gone anywhere, you guys are already trying to setup a ambush as heard by the radio communication in your own pov your members are getting ready to "SMOKE".

In addition to the fact your setting up an AMBUSH for a TRAFFIC STOP where you are not even being placed under arrest, your group can be heard mixing on the radio by referencing OOC rules of engagement ICly, "All She has to do is get out and give demands and she is chilling" as can be heard @1:17 in @Mariaaaa POV. 

@dawpi To answer your questions directly:

4 hours ago, dawpi said:

Player ID 34 Mark_Sloan [Notified In-Game] - Can you explain your side of the story to this situation and upload any footage you may have in relation to this? In the footage provided, you were seen aiming and then shooting back at the individuals who attacked you. On top of that, after the roll and mid-shooting you proceeded to drop two panic alarms. Do you believe that your actions were realistic while you continued to shoot at the people and drop multiple panic alarms?

I believe pressing the panic button when you're engaged in a shootout is completely realistic and what is expected as per protocol. This is what the cops are trained to do. Returning fire while making comms is drilled into us every single day with pursuits, code 1 situations, & joint operations. I will agree that due to the game mechanics forcing you to have 2 hands on your gun, that it does look a little funky, but again this is negated by the fact that there are /ame's to prevent any sort of power gaming from occurring. 

Pressing a Panic and shooting at the same time is a realistic action of an officer being engaged as you can use one hand to press a panic and the other to shoot. in the game we are limited in our movement by what the game engine allows us to do in terms of animation.

A parallel example to this is driving in game. While driving in game both of your hands are on the steering whee yet you are able to talk on the radio, use the mdc and use your IC GPS , would it be powergaming to talk on the radio or press the panic while driving?. If so, this needs to be clarified in the rules to stop further disruption to peoples roleplay experience.

MY POV:https://youtu.be/ksoazgHBVrQ

Full POV of the situation is available if required.

 

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11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

I just want to start off my response by saying that I was never told to save my POV and was completely unaware of this report being made. Per the forum rules: 

I pm'ed you a bit after, same ID and seemingly the same EXP but I got no response, however you know now that you're being reported.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

Firstly, @Mariaaaa, do you have the full video of the situation and if so can you please upload it to give the admins full context of the situation.

I'll do so if the admin handling the report requests it.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

So you are saying that you 100% knew and confirmed that you were being arrested, this is simply false. If you even watch your own POV back, I told you that were getting a citation for $500 and a 3rd demerit. At no point did I state you were under arrest. And the situation never played out like that regardless. Stating you would get charged with illegal firearm x2 is also false as no officer does that unless you are found carrying an unlicensed and a illegal firearm in which case you would be given one of each. If you were to be arrested, I wouldn't have cleared any of the units that were there.

You had no idea what I had on my person or in my glovebox/trunk, knowing PD you would probably have searched the vehicle after you saw the .50 on my back. And yes this is an assumption, but I'm pretty certain you would've arrested me because you could've seen on my license that I have a suspended firearms license. Regardless if I would've gotten one or two charges for the firearms I would've still lost 2 .50's and whatever was in the trunk.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

You escalated a routine traffic stop into a cop killing.

It wouldn't have been an escalation to cop killing if you would've complied with the demands given, knowing there's a second person in the car of which you don't know if they have a gun or not. But that's alright there were no rules broken due to you having your gun out and facing the attacker, everyone makes mistakes.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

To address this point, it is not and has never been against the rules to talk on the radio/call for backup while shooting your gun. To call this powergaming is absurd. The game scriptly forces you to have both hands on your gun when pointing it. Our movements are limited by game mechanics, roleplay allows us to transcend these game mechanics by using /me's and /do's. When a panic is placed, you can see the /ame above my head indicating that the panic is pressed. This is an intended script in place to negate any sort of powergaming that could occur.

You were in the middle of a roll while the attacker was standing right in front of you actively shooting at you. Then you immediately returned fire and as you did you clicked the panic two times. I'm really not sure how in this case you "reached for their radio and clicks a button". I've seen cops taking cover (because they weren't that close) then click their panic button and then return fire.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

Before addressing the staff members, I just want to reiterate once again: This was a routine traffic stop, at no point was Valentina ever going to be arrested, and the vehicle wasn't even going to be impounded as I gave her permission to get a friend to drive it away. They escalated a $500 fine into a shootout with little to no RP whatsoever besides "Hands. Hands." followed by shooting me.

You're forgetting a thing here, you chose to ignore the demands and return fire. If you would've complied we had a chance to RP. There was a clear motive for this, you were all by yourself in a pretty quiet area of the city. You were 100% gonna see my .50 and possibly search my car afterwards if we didn't do anything. Just because you claimed you were never gonna arrest me doesn't take away the fact you'll change your mind afterwards.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

In addition to the fact your setting up an AMBUSH for a TRAFFIC STOP where you are not even being placed under arrest, your group can be heard mixing on the radio by referencing OOC rules of engagement ICly, "All She has to do is get out and give demands and she is chilling" as can be heard @1:17 in @Mariaaaa POV. 

Basically I called our people to that location incase you would give me a reckless operation/felony evading from the start, as I saw multiple cruisers arriving as well. Obviously I wouldn't have made them engage if it was indeed a regular traffic stop, you can see me trying to hide my .50 in the glove box so we could do it without any escalation. However due to the volume limitations I was unable, and stripping the ammo underneath your nose was not an option. You could've stepped away and called backup before I could react. That's why this was the only way of having the overhand in this situation. And for the last part, I'm not sure how that is referencing OOC rules IC. It's pretty clear I need to give demands if that was necessary right? From an In Character stand point we try to avoid shooting cops at all cost because it mostly always has a tail. So giving demands and you surrendering was the best outcome for us, however you chose to return fire.

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11 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

I pm'ed you a bit after, same ID and seemingly the same EXP but I got no response, however you know now that you're being reported.

To the best of my knowledge I never received such a PM. You must have PM'd a random player. Knowing to save my POV 3 hours later (when you posted the report) totally defeats the purpose of contacting the player and making sure they save their POV. By chance I had saved my end of things, but for future reports you should immediately inform a player to save their POV.

11 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

Basically I called our people to that location incase you would give me a reckless operation/felony evading from the start, as I saw multiple cruisers arriving as well. Obviously I wouldn't have made them engage if it was indeed a regular traffic stop,

This was conducted like a "regular traffic stop", yet you still engaged?.but then again i am unsure what your definition of a regular traffic stop involves.

What I'm trying to get across is that there was no need to try and hold up an officer for a $500 citation. To me the only threat was the other person that appeared out of nowhere at which point he was my only focus, i wasnt focused on you and didnt even notice your weapon.

11 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

knowing there's a second person in the car of which you don't know if they have a gun or not. But that's alright there were no rules broken due to you having your gun out and facing the attacker, everyone makes mistakes.

what does this even mean, there is no second person in your car. not in my pov and not in yours...

11 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

You were in the middle of a roll while the attacker was standing right in front of you actively shooting at you. Then you immediately returned fire and as you did you clicked the panic two times. I'm really not sure how in this case you "reached for their radio and clicks a button". I've seen cops taking cover (because they weren't that close) then click their panic button and then return fire.

first of all, i was on my feet at the time the first panic was placed:https://i.gyazo.com/a6cc63bb49f543fe978943b5ae1086a7.jpg

second of all i am not sure why it is unfathomable for you to realise that a person can do more than ONE thing with the TWO hands he has, shoot with one hand and click a panic button on his radio with the other. while shooting with one hand does not yield the best accuracy, it is realistically very possible. It is even considered an Official Olympic Sport.

As i highlighted earlier, the animations in game are limited due to the game engine how these limitations can easily be transcended by roleplay through the appropriate use of /mes and /dos, which was done in this case through the use of /ame. just because both of my hands are glued to the gun due to game limitations, it does not mean that both of my hands would be glued to a gun in real life disabling the use of my radio.

this will be my last reply unless an admin asks me to respond to any further query.

Regards

Sloan

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11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

This was conducted like a "regular traffic stop", yet you still engaged?.but then again i am unsure what your definition of a regular traffic stop involves.

What I'm trying to get across is that there was no need to try and hold up an officer for a $500 citation. To me the only threat was the other person that appeared out of nowhere at which point he was my only focus, i wasnt focused on you and didnt even notice your weapon.

You could obviously not see my weapon, yet. We didn't hold you up for a $500 citation, we're not retarded.

11 hours ago, highonquackk said:

what does this even mean, there is no second person in your car. not in my pov and not in yours...

"It wouldn't have been an escalation to cop killing if you would've complied with the demands given, knowing there's a second person in the car of which you don't know if they have a gun or not." You were given demands by 139, what I meant to say is you chose to return fire while there was a second individual (me) in a vehicle of which you don't know if they are potentially armed or not. It wouldn't have to be a "senseless cop killing" if you would've complied.

 

I'll leave the rest up to the admins to decide.

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We would like to thank everyone involved in this player report for their patience, as well as their responses provided in a timely manner. We understand that situations such as this may be very frustrating and confusing, but after further discussion between ourselves and a couple other members of staff, we have decided to deny this player report. Please, find the reasons for this denial explained further down below. 

We have looked at a couple of factors when it comes to the character's actions and the drop of the panic alarm. To begin with, we have deemed that it may be possible (in some instances) to reach for your radio and drop a backup or a panic alarm when aiming with a gun, of course, due to in-game character limitations and how the Grand Theft Auto (GTA) game is set, that's not something you will most likely see on the character itself. More importantly, whenever you are discharging your firearm (actively shooting) and talking on the radio, it is very similar to dropping a backup or a panic alarm. Realistically, the button is just on the side of the radio which you need to press before you talk on the radio. Believing that talking on the radio is allowed, while dropping a backup or a panic is not is flawed rationale. 

On the other hand, there can be times when this can be viewed as unrealistic promoting poor quality role-play, but in this instance it was not. Talking on the radio while shooting or dropping backup or panic alarms was never enforced as long as it is done in a realistic way, allowing the player to realistically reach for the radio to either talk or drop a backup or a panic. If you are capable of talking on the radio while shooting, we do not see why dropping a backup or a panic would not be.

Best Regards,

Administrator Aldarine & Senior Moderator Dawpi

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