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Carlos_Rodrigueez [ID 113] - 14. Deathmatching

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Player(s) being reported: Carlos Rodrigueez (ID 113)
Date of interaction reported: 1/9/2021
Unix time stamp from HUD: 65 | 1610206343

Your characters name: Kevin Shard

Other player(s) involved: Dean Mulloy, Logan Nathan

Specific rule(s) broken:

14. Deathmatch (DM)

  • Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without a proper roleplay reason and interaction.

  • Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:

• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.

• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.

• If they are not in compliance with plausible demands, attempt to escape, or call backup.

  • A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands.

  • A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands.

  • If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s).

  • Vehicles cannot be used to attack a player on foot more than once, including a failed attempt.

  • Vehicles cannot be used as a weapon in an active shootout unless it's unavoidable when fleeing an active shootout.

  • Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:

    1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)

    2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.

    3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen.

  • You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason.



How did the player break the rule(s)?

To explain the situation we got a call about a shootout near the golf course. We responded to it and when the driver turned around we suddenly heard shots and requested backup as we heard some shots. When going into actual golf course the kamachou backed up and blocked us. Our driver then bugged out ( as you can see in his POV and reaction ) regardless of the fact that happened even if he hopped out he did not even attempt to grab his firearm ( which can also be seen in his POV ) showing no hostility. Unfortunately I tried to surrender in a situation I had no full control off even putting my hands up and he decided he should shoot and finish me with no valid DM rights.

 I will quote these 2 lines of the DM rules where it states: 

  1. Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:

    1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)

    2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.

    3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen

We never got demands and even us trying to surrender ( me putting my hands up ) he shot and killed me, He instantly shot ID 62 and finished all of us with no RP reason. We were also not doing any of these

  • • If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.
  • • If they report you to the police for a serious crime.
  • • If they are not in compliance with plausible demands, attempt to escape, or call backup.

We pulled up to a situation and crashed into a kamachou, We did not got any plausible demands or did anything else that would grant them DM rights.

Evidence of rule breach:

https://streamable.com/qkr8km

https://streamable.com/du46k7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUauXRcjlL4&feature=youtu.be

 

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PENDING RESPONSE
―――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

 

After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • @Dylan Ortiz - Carlos_Rodrigueez (ID 113) - Please explain to why you ended up shooting and finishing the officers present on the scene when they had their hands up and the rest were trying to. Please provide all available evidence unedited to support your claims.

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Administrator Emulsify & Senior Support Skiperz

Edited by Skiperz
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Hi Carlos here.

@Dylan Ortiz - Carlos_Rodrigueez (ID 113) - Please explain to why you ended up shooting and finishing the officers present on the scene when they had their hands up and the rest were trying to. Please provide all available evidence unedited to support your claims.

Starting off with the question. On the videos provided from Kevin you will see that the only person who put there hands up was ID 69, I shot him as he was getting out of the car and instantly shot him again, His hands did not go up until my last shot was fired and then his body did the animation as he got injured. I have 350-400 ping on the sever as most people know everything that happens IG is delayed for me, After shooting ID 69, ID 144 was doing a weapon pulling animation and that's when I shot ID 144 injuring him as you can see on his pov he tired to pull a firearm but pulled the tazer instead withdrawing a weapon. It all happen so fast and with my Ping delay there's no way for me to have stopped shooting him Intime for him putting his hand up as on my screen he put them up after I shot.

 

This was a quote from FatherOsborn on a report below "We do not require players to issue demands to players that act hostile in on going action scenarios, anyone who inserts themselves into an action scenario runs the risk of being attacked."

 

It was an active shootout, 3 officers came in with sirens on and hoped out of the car in an active situation during gun fire, ID 62 claims it was a bug that he got out of his car, whether it was or not there's no way for any of us to knowing that he accidently got out of his car with his passengers at the same time during an active shootout with his sirens on.

  • • If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property. - The officers arrived at the shootout and displayed hostile actions towards us by getting out the car right in front of 10-15 gang members with heavy weapons actively shooting and killing people, I'm not sure how this does not look hostile to anyone as there are 10-15 gang members who are actively carrying heavy weapons and shooting, ID 69 called out over radio TAC 1 and rushed into the scene, When he could of observed what was happening and wait for back up or reversed out of the situation. There is no doubt in my mind that they were not going to try and arrest us for murdering people and actively carrying heavy guns around them while they just called TAC 1 situation.

Had the officers not entered an active shootout basically getting out in the centre of the shootout, they would never of even been shot at.

 

Below is another report where people were gunned down from cops without giving demands or anything because the cops felt like they were going to be hostile "We feel that no rules were broken in this scenario. It is evident from the conversation, and your presence there that you were about to be hostiles in an action scenario. It is entirely acceptable for people to shoot people that would obviously be hostile within the next few seconds."

 

 

On the photos provided below you will see that at 15.140 seconds his hands were not up on his own screen and he was injured at 16.170, 1 second between him putting his hands up and then being injured, You then add my ping delay and his ping delay and that's less then .5 of a second reaction time to notice he was putting his hands up is nearly impossible to see.

8ltv2GA.png

mpyF2b1.png

 

In this video below you will see how much lag I get from the server because of how far away I live from the server 

 

 

 

In the screen shot below you will see that I was only just hitting him from behind when I was 40+m in front of him showing how bad the delay is. 

w3OPDD2.png

Edited by Dylan Ortiz
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Posted (edited)

no pov? 😄

It all happen so fast and with my Ping delay there's no way for me to have stopped shooting him Intime for him putting his hand up as on my screen he put them up after I shot.

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/38839-deathmatching-rule-break/?tab=comments#comment-210460

Here a person with over 300 ping and the snr admin said that he should be more carefull in what he is doing. Your high ping is not an excuse for being trigger happy and trying to shoot as fast as you can. as you state yourself you have played the server for over 2 year+ I am sure you should be aware of it. High ping is not an excuse for DMing people. 

We do not require players to issue demands to players that act hostile in on going action scenarios, anyone who inserts themselves into an action scenario runs the risk of being attacked."

You should quote the whole quote and not only partially 

We do not require players to issue demands to players that act hostile in on going action scenarios, anyone who inserts themselves into an action scenario runs the risk of being attacked. If you do not want to get attacked, you find the fastest way to leave the area - which you did not. In this scenario, the fastest way would've been surrendering to the officers that was blocking the exit after you drove down there.

We did not act hostile in an action scenario. We were not able to find a way to leave as you can see in the drivers POV he crashes into the kamachou. Just because a cop driver towards a PD call with sirens on does not give you DM rights to just kill and finish us even if we are trying to surrender. 

 The officers arrived at the shootout and displayed hostile actions towards us by getting out the car right in front of 10-15 gang members with heavy weapons actively shooting and killing people

ID 62 got out of the car and instantly got mowed down, he did not even reach for his weapon. ID 144 reached for his weapon after he already got shot, and I tried putting my hands up and even with my hands up I got shot. 

We went towards the call and heard shots, This is just a normal reaction to call in TAC when you hear shots. The heavies I first called on the radio was a guess at first and was not even correct until I said on radio "loads of heavies" when I saw people with shotguns. 

https://imgur.com/a/5xs1RTY this is what we saw 

https://imgur.com/a/aWDRN8z when we crashed into the vehicle 

We did not show any hostility and were no threat to you at any time.

On the photos provided below you will see that at 15.140 seconds his hands were not up on his own screen and he was injured at 16.170, 1 second between him putting his hands up and then being injured, You then add my ping delay and his ping delay and that's less then .5 of a second reaction time to notice he was putting his hands up is nearly impossible to see.

Thats the whole point of DM rule, you need to give people the opportunity to react, you cant just gun someone down. 

 

My intention was at that moment not to arrest anyone and I was not actively arresting anyone. We got a call we went there to investigate when we heard shots we called in for backup and my first priority even if we got out was most likely to give BLS and help people and not instantly arrest if no investigation was put in it.

Edited by Felcon
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I saved POV twice while I was there and I went over my footage once the report was made and noticed that I did not have the POV of you (ID 69) , ID 85 spammed save POV about 5+ times and I had to tell him to cut /B and I saved POV, unfortunately you (ID 69)  came as I was finishing them off after I saved POV, At the time I though I had saved it for whole situation of the shooting until I watched it back.

I've have had POV for every single shootout/report that I've ever been involved in and I don't think I've once not had POV for it in the 2+ years I've been on this server. Its evident on the POVs provided by yourself (ID 69) and myself that I have delay with my 400 ping, Also the Screenshots of the time when you hands were not up and when you were injured added with my ping delay and the reaction time I have to respond.

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13 hours ago, Felcon said:

Here a person with over 300 ping and the snr admin said that he should be more carefull in what he is doing. Your high ping is not an excuse for being trigger happy and trying to shoot as fast as you can. as you state yourself you have played the server for over 2 year+ I am sure you should be aware of it. High ping is not an excuse for DMing people. 

That report is about driving, Nothing to do with any of the current report at all its about desync crashing.

 

13 hours ago, Felcon said:

We did not show any hostility and were no threat to you at any time.

Are you watching the video correctly? In what world does it look like your coming to an active shootout, Then getting out of the car as OFFICERS and not showing hostility.

Again, This report below at 3:48 he steps out of the car and and was gunned down and because it was an active shootout and show HOSTILE actions to the officer by getting out of the car . https://streamable.com/qofi74

 

 

Another report below Buk Lee was at bradox without a gun carrying an injured person, Once shots were fired he was gunned down instantly and so was the injured person on his back, Both of which were NO threat to anyone but this was the conclusion
 

" @Buk Lee decided to go into a hostile environment, in which a shootout just occurred (cca. 8 minutes before) without a gun, expecting to be protected by OOC rules. I find this to be ruleplaying on your behalf, and I find it very questionable that you would enter such a situation without a gun. You are not with the red cross, you are a gang member in uniform. The shootout broke out on the other side of the Farm, unknown how exactly as there is no evidence from that side, and then everyone in the area wearing the uniform was engaged upon, after they entered the hostile situation knowingly. "

You are police officers in a 3 man Adam, You hardly crashed as you claim it was at 41km IG, Did not stall matter of fact the police cruiser took 17 damage with the new 2.5x damage multiplier, And then all exited the vehicle witch shows clear hostile action towards us during an active situation.

 

Lets reverse the situation, Police are shooting at gang members and you see a Azteca car pull up during an active shootout with 3 people inside, all 3 people get out in gang clothing directly in the centre of the shootout. Your going to tell me that it is not a hostile action? this report is a prime example of that below.

 

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Report Denied

Thank you for remaining patient while this was being reviewed.

 

I would first like to thank everyone who responded with their side of the story and for explaining their actions which can be seen in the evidence. After extensively reviewing the provided footage and taking into account the responses, we have come to a conclusion.

To begin with, the reporting officers entered into an active shootout between two opposing sides. The officers then proceed to get out of the vehicle. From the perspective of a gang member in the shootout we can very much see how they would have thought this was a hostile act. It has been said many times before but if you insert yourself into a hostile environment such as a shootout runs the risk of being attacked. 

As for Carlos_Rodrigueez shooting the officer with their hands up, it is extremely suspicious that there is no recording considering that there usually is. However, we are going to provide you with the benefit of the doubt in this situation but with only being unbanned from a deathmatching punishment a mere day before this report we suggest you take much more caution when attacking players in the future.

I would also like to address both players' attitudes in this report as it is not what we would expect to see from long-time players in the community. Once you have posted your response there is no need to go back and forth. It does not give us any further information that we already had.
If you need to add additional information to the report, please edit your own response. 
Additionally, @Dylan Ortiz posted many other reports to back his reasoning. There is no need for this as the staff team has said multiple times before, every situation is different. Having looked back at other reports you are involved in it is a repeat pattern, please refrain from doing this in the future.

 

Report denied and archived.
Kind regards,
Emulsify & Skiperz.

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