Server Wipe upon moving to RAGE

[Pazz]

-1

[Triple Seven]

-1

I have too much time invested to support this idea. A wipe in itself is not a bad idea when the economy is rebalanced, but then all players should be reimbursed to the new balance so to keep the effort from before intact

[Ray Sweets]

4 hours ago, Triple Seven said:

-1

I have too much time invested to support this idea. A wipe in itself is not a bad idea when the economy is rebalanced, but then all players should be reimbursed to the new balance so to keep the effort from before intact

this, i WOULD love to see a much harder to earn economy in RAGEMP with all players reimbursed on a percentage basis, i'd love to see supers cars worth 10-15m or job only paying a 1/5th of what they do now.

 

[SoloSmith]

I'm not sure people understand the gravity of the problem. Maybe they do and I just don't understand the connection with in-game assets, I don't know.

An economy wipe has to happen, alongside a revamped economy. It is nearly impossible to get around this. It doesn't have to happen now, but it will have to happen to secure the future of this server. ECRP has yet to be live for 1 year, it's still in its infancy, yet people have already "completed" all content in terms of financial assets. In another 6 months when the next wave of players reaches the same financial level, it will just amplify the problems we see today. 

What happens when they release aircraft? They want it expensive so not everyone can have one but even making it $10 million, there's a good number of people that can come together to buy a few of those, and to new players that's so far down the road it's nearly pointless. Government pay checks were hugely inflated when I first got here, and the lack of rules restricting transferring of assets to criminal characters outside PD means the vast majority of wealth has been obtained in unrealistic terms.

Adding anything to balance the economy without a wipe will be hugely unfair for new players. Potential solutions to increase spending and money sinks on the server, such as insurance based on vehicle or house price, medical insurance, criminal fees etc, will not work if 40% of the server starts these new systems with huge financial support from a backlog of government paychecks.

If you want ECRP to thrive, the economy needs to change. Of course there are different ways to do this but without a wipe, I can't see it being possible. I don't understand the argument of "I've put all the hours in I don't want to lose everything I worked so hard for". You don't want to lose the hours of fun you've had so you can have more hours of fun?

A reimbursement as Triple suggested isn't a bad idea but it still has a similar list of potential problems. Rich people that didn't really do anything to become super rich, will still be super rich.

Police officers, mechanics, news reporters, these people should not be running around with $5 million in assets, that's insane. That level of financials should be reserved for highly successful criminal organizations, not every random dude you see on the street.

For an RP server in this kind of game to last years over months, it needs a highly realistic economy. Without it, fear, risk, none of it comes into play and you end up with 80% of people pissing around in supercars baiting the police because they are bored. They no longer have to worry about money because they just switch characters.

If criminals had to put in constant effort to create income, we would see a lot more criminal RP. I say this as a police officer with multiple houses, multiple cars and a $3.5 million weapon shop, I'd be gutted to lose American Arms, the forum post alone took me hours but if it's what's best for the server, that's what I'd have to lose.

TL:DR Wipe the economy, rebalance the economy, sort out government pay checks. Start afresh

Edited January 23, 2018 by SoloSmith

[Triple Seven]

@SoloSmith I fully understand your point and I mostly agree. Except for where money makes criminals choose supercars to bait police because they're in the "endgame". The real problem there is that criminals have 0, yes 0, content. Using supercars exclusively for a gang is still FailRP imo but that is a different issue.

I've been here since the end of March and I enjoy playing this server, probably too much seeing the hours I've spent on it. But in that time, it has cost me time (valuable to everyone right?) to get somewhere. If that progress is wiped then my character development is also halted, not to say rendered useless, which would be a shame for the RP in my opinion.

Now character development isn't important to everyone, there are plenty of people who like to play (bad example, don't mean anyone specifically) a police officer that returns to work day in and day out without having any RP going on off-duty. That is fine, but I like developing my characters beyond that.

That is why I believe if the economy is rebalanced there would need to be a formula where every player gets the money based on assets they had if a wipe of current assets is chosen. That formula would need to be fair for everyone and would therefor not change anyone's position in the economy, but instead give them a fair starting point in the rebalanced one.

[Shalami]

Remember this is a RP server, not world of warcraft. End game is what you choose to be. Having everything you want doesn’t mean your cant set new goals in your IG life !!. I mean, who here enjoy his trucker days ? cuz I hate them !!!, i mean yes, sometimes we have fund over trucker radio and shit, but the real fun is when you archive your goals and start working on your character and have some money to actually do something.

 

There’s no need for a server wipe, what we need is a rework on the economy and new rules about the transfer of money between alts and all that.

[imJKL]

1 hour ago, Triple Seven said:

@SoloSmith I fully understand your point and I mostly agree. Except for where money makes criminals choose supercars to bait police because they're in the "endgame". The real problem there is that criminals have 0, yes 0, content. Using supercars exclusively for a gang is still FailRP imo but that is a different issue.

I've been here since the end of March and I enjoy playing this server, probably too much seeing the hours I've spent on it. But in that time, it has cost me time (valuable to everyone right?) to get somewhere. If that progress is wiped then my character development is also halted, not to say rendered useless, which would be a shame for the RP in my opinion.

Now character development isn't important to everyone, there are plenty of people who like to play (bad example, don't mean anyone specifically) a police officer that returns to work day in and day out without having any RP going on off-duty. That is fine, but I like developing my characters beyond that.

That is why I believe if the economy is rebalanced there would need to be a formula where every player gets the money based on assets they had if a wipe of current assets is chosen. That formula would need to be fair for everyone and would therefor not change anyone's position in the economy, but instead give them a fair starting point in the rebalanced one.

I accept with every word.

[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]

13 hours ago, SoloSmith said:

I'm not sure people understand the gravity of the problem. Maybe they do and I just don't understand the connection with in-game assets, I don't know.

An economy wipe has to happen, alongside a revamped economy. It is nearly impossible to get around this. It doesn't have to happen now, but it will have to happen to secure the future of this server. ECRP has yet to be live for 1 year, it's still in its infancy, yet people have already "completed" all content in terms of financial assets. In another 6 months when the next wave of players reaches the same financial level, it will just amplify the problems we see today. 

What happens when they release aircraft? They want it expensive so not everyone can have one but even making it $10 million, there's a good number of people that can come together to buy a few of those, and to new players that's so far down the road it's nearly pointless. Government pay checks were hugely inflated when I first got here, and the lack of rules restricting transferring of assets to criminal characters outside PD means the vast majority of wealth has been obtained in unrealistic terms.

Adding anything to balance the economy without a wipe will be hugely unfair for new players. Potential solutions to increase spending and money sinks on the server, such as insurance based on vehicle or house price, medical insurance, criminal fees etc, will not work if 40% of the server starts these new systems with huge financial support from a backlog of government paychecks.

If you want ECRP to thrive, the economy needs to change. Of course there are different ways to do this but without a wipe, I can't see it being possible. I don't understand the argument of "I've put all the hours in I don't want to lose everything I worked so hard for". You don't want to lose the hours of fun you've had so you can have more hours of fun?

A reimbursement as Triple suggested isn't a bad idea but it still has a similar list of potential problems. Rich people that didn't really do anything to become super rich, will still be super rich.

Police officers, mechanics, news reporters, these people should not be running around with $5 million in assets, that's insane. That level of financials should be reserved for highly successful criminal organizations, not every random dude you see on the street.

For an RP server in this kind of game to last years over months, it needs a highly realistic economy. Without it, fear, risk, none of it comes into play and you end up with 80% of people pissing around in supercars baiting the police because they are bored. They no longer have to worry about money because they just switch characters.

If criminals had to put in constant effort to create income, we would see a lot more criminal RP. I say this as a police officer with multiple houses, multiple cars and a $3.5 million weapon shop, I'd be gutted to lose American Arms, the forum post alone took me hours but if it's what's best for the server, that's what I'd have to lose.

TL:DR Wipe the economy, rebalance the economy, sort out government pay checks. Start afresh

Although I agree with most of what you say, those rich people already spent hundreds of hours grinding that government income, and a total server wipe would be totally unfair for those. Let me start with saying that I've been playing on this server for a little over 6 months now and been employed as a mechanic for all that time. I'm active for a fair amount of time, and I've been much more active actually GRINDING like the others did in the past and still do(including myself when I find myself at that point where there is literally no other way of making income with such a small playerbase and so little actual diversity). Money does not mean effort or small effort on this server and everyone can get stupid rich and IT IS NOT their fault. I will also state the fact that I never owned a supercar. My most expensive vehicle was an Elegy Retro. It is still unfortunately mostly up to the majority how the want to spend their time playing the game. Some seem to just be here for those expensive, luxury assets and to show off. The most disapoointing suggestion I've probably ever seen is just a few rows under this one: someone wants implemented a designated place to hang out and show off the work of their grind... It will be vert hard to create an actual economy from the point we are now, something like that should really be thought through from the very starting point imo, and with a few things added/minor changes.

[Ray Sweets]

New rage = new server lets go bois.

[ChuckM]

So what happens 6 months after a server wipe and all the new players say its unfair everyone else has money, cars and homes? Taxes need to increase for people who hold lots of cash and assets.

[MarcoD]

-1

[Vicarious]

-1

[Spergburger]

-1 There's gonna be a wealth gap between new and old players regardless of when they join, wiping everything that people have worked for in order to combat that in the short term is an awful idea

[Jim_Wesson]

Balance can be done very easily and over time it will continue to balance itself, just take IRL monthly taxes/expenses and apply them to hourly taxes/deductions in game.
Things like Car Insurance, Health Insurance, House/Property Tax, Utility Cost, if implemented into the server correctly, can solve problems like criminals who make 1k an hour owning countless supercars, or rich players owning all the most desirable houses and businesses. 
Just a rough idea of how this could work:

Car Insurance -  Scrap the unrealistic car insurance approach where you only pay for your insurance if your car blows up. With the current system, players who don't blow up their cars could potentially not pay even a single dollar for car insurance. Not sure what system this was modeled after but a system that reflects real life car insurance could bring about balance to a big problem. 

Suggestion: Make car insurance an hourly deduction from your bank account based on a percentage of the cars total value. As long as you keep up with your payments, taking the car out of Mors should be free since you pay in advance. This is sure to stop people from driving super cars if they're not in the position to afford the insurance payments and cause them make more realistic decisions when choosing a car as a daily driver. It would also work as a money sink, which the server needs. Make it optional to have and punishable for not having if caught on public streets without it. Could even go the extra step as to jack up insurance cost for each accident or point/infraction on your license, forcing people to maybe drive a little more realistically. Say I want to own a supercar or dirt bike, but only for race track use, I have the option to not insure it but would be require to tow/flatbed it to the track when I would like to use it or risk fines, points,  and jail time driving it there myself. 

 

 

Health Insurance -  Currently there is none, I could die 100 times and it doesn't really cost me anything. 

Suggestion:  Make health insurance an optional hourly deduction from your bank account. Factor in whatever number you like, but make a hospital visit cost something more to those who don't pay hourly for health insurance compared to those who do own health insurance. It's a smaller money sink, but it will add up with the rest, achieving a more balanced economy and less people owning things that they realistically can't afford.

 

 

Property Tax - Currently there is none. Rich players can buy expensive houses and that's it, its theirs forever, no matter if they lose their job or whatever the case may be. Not to mention, they can own multiple houses without it putting a single dent on their income. There's nothing stopping the rich people from owning more than one house or business/property and a simple property tax could fix that.

Suggestion:  Make property tax an hourly deduction from your bank account based on a percentage of the house or property's total value. This will stop the rich people from owning every desirable property, business, house, etc.  It will open up the market for new owners. It will give players with less, a chance. It will give the rich players the option to still own the property's but maybe think twice on being "greedy" and owning more than they need. Even more-so, it will give the millionaires with million dollar mansions, something to spend all their millions on. A house purchase shouldn't end at the purchase itself, there should be some sort of reoccurring payment. 

 

 

Just those few examples could completely change the economy, as well as the mindsets of the players when choosing how they invest their money. There's plenty of money going out to the people of the city but not enough of it coming back. Not enough money sinks. Nothing to stop me from owning 10 supercars and 3 mansions working as a garbage man, aside from the initial money required to make the purchases themselves. Criminals making 1k an hour would stop driving supercars, because even though they could perhaps afford it initially, they just wouldn't be able to afford it "monthly". 

 

 

And just my two cents.. there will ALWAYS be a gap in wealth between old/new players. Don't do the loyal players dirty like that, as its the loyal players who keep the server relevant.

I only spit out a few ideas, and I'm sure with some more brainstorming we could come up with more ideas to help balance the economy.

A wipe may temporarily solve the issue until it's an issue again. 

 

 

[Flucifial]

46 minutes ago, Jim_Wesson said:

Balance can be done very easily and over time it will continue to balance itself, just take IRL monthly taxes/expenses and apply them to hourly taxes/deductions in game.
Things like Car Insurance, Health Insurance, House/Property Tax, Utility Cost, if implemented into the server correctly, can solve problems like criminals who make 1k an hour owning countless supercars, or rich players owning all the most desirable houses and businesses. 
Just a rough idea of how this could work:

Car Insurance -  Scrap the unrealistic car insurance approach where you only pay for your insurance if your car blows up. With the current system, players who don't blow up their cars could potentially not pay even a single dollar for car insurance. Not sure what system this was modeled after but a system that reflects real life car insurance could bring about balance to a big problem. 

Suggestion: Make car insurance an hourly deduction from your bank account based on a percentage of the cars total value. As long as you keep up with your payments, taking the car out of Mors should be free since you pay in advance. This is sure to stop people from driving super cars if they're not in the position to afford the insurance payments and cause them make more realistic decisions when choosing a car as a daily driver. It would also work as a money sink, which the server needs. Make it optional to have and punishable for not having if caught on public streets without it. Could even go the extra step as to jack up insurance cost for each accident or point/infraction on your license, forcing people to maybe drive a little more realistically. Say I want to own a supercar or dirt bike, but only for race track use, I have the option to not insure it but would be require to tow/flatbed it to the track when I would like to use it or risk fines, points,  and jail time driving it there myself. 

 

 

Health Insurance -  Currently there is none, I could die 100 times and it doesn't really cost me anything. 

Suggestion:  Make health insurance an optional hourly deduction from your bank account. Factor in whatever number you like, but make a hospital visit cost something more to those who don't pay hourly for health insurance compared to those who do own health insurance. It's a smaller money sink, but it will add up with the rest, achieving a more balanced economy and less people owning things that they realistically can't afford.

 

 

Property Tax - Currently there is none. Rich players can buy expensive houses and that's it, its theirs forever, no matter if they lose their job or whatever the case may be. Not to mention, they can own multiple houses without it putting a single dent on their income. There's nothing stopping the rich people from owning more than one house or business/property and a simple property tax could fix that.

Suggestion:  Make property tax an hourly deduction from your bank account based on a percentage of the house or property's total value. This will stop the rich people from owning every desirable property, business, house, etc.  It will open up the market for new owners. It will give players with less, a chance. It will give the rich players the option to still own the property's but maybe think twice on being "greedy" and owning more than they need. Even more-so, it will give the millionaires with million dollar mansions, something to spend all their millions on. A house purchase shouldn't end at the purchase itself, there should be some sort of reoccurring payment. 

 

 

Just those few examples could completely change the economy, as well as the mindsets of the players when choosing how they invest their money. There's plenty of money going out to the people of the city but not enough of it coming back. Not enough money sinks. Nothing to stop me from owning 10 supercars and 3 mansions working as a garbage man, aside from the initial money required to make the purchases themselves. Criminals making 1k an hour would stop driving supercars, because even though they could perhaps afford it initially, they just wouldn't be able to afford it "monthly". 

 

 

And just my two cents.. there will ALWAYS be a gap in wealth between old/new players. Don't do the loyal players dirty like that, as its the loyal players who keep the server relevant.

I only spit out a few ideas, and I'm sure with some more brainstorming we could come up with more ideas to help balance the economy.

A wipe may temporarily solve the issue until it's an issue again. 

 

 

ABSOLUTE +1 to this Jim. Great idea. 

[Eletrix]

-1

What would discourage new players is to log into rage and find out their days worth of trucking farming has balanced to nothing because "Fresh start"

[demoniks]

+1

I've invested some time into the server, and am planning on investing more. With that being said, every second I've spent here, I've assumed this is a developing server that will have content updates, and apparently even more drastic changes. With a game(or server) in this state, in my opinion it should be 100% expected that certain things will cause complete server (and asset) wipes. This is just something that comes along with playing games and mods that are works in progress.

[Shalami]

-1

We have support the server on  the darkest days (crash every 5 minutes, lag, bugs…) and your asking that our progress get delete when we move to a more stable platform ? like FOR REAL ? that’s how you want us to be pay for our loyalty to the server ?.

I know owners and developers know better and won’t make a move like this.

[Flucifial]

Rejected