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Jason_Malgotti[222], Jack_Colenta[206], Elijah_Wu[3], Vince_Draco[252] / NRP Player Theft DM

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REPORT PENDING

Thank you for creating this player report.

The following people will be tagged/notified to give their side of the story within the next 24 hours:

  • @Copperhorse Jason_Malgotti [ID 222]  - The demands you gave were whilst the individuals were still inside the Bank, do you feel this was enough? Why did you shoot Lauren_Baker [ID 51] as she ran out of the Bank unarmed?

What happens if the person does not respond? We will review the evidence again and provide our conclusion. 
What might help my case? Posting evidence of your own POV is always a very handy tool. If you don't have any evidence at your disposal, the best you can do is tell the story in full detail on how it happened on your side. Be honest and do not lie in your reply.

Regards,
MarcoD & Bakmeel

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I was driving on west highway and saw many motorcycles behind the bank. I knew that there would be a bank robbery that was going to be started so I waited a few minutes and called a friend to get the radio frequency of Aztecas. Once I drove by again, I saw people in the bank and saw them aiming their weapons at the clerks. I then made the call over the radio that the Rooks were robbing the Chumash bank and everyone started moving this way. The plan was to hold you up in the parking lot when you ran to get to your bikes and take the packed money so it can be used on Azteca turfs for influence and money. Once you guys started to leave the bank and head towards the back where your bikes are, I gave demands whilst pointing my SMG, knowing that I had allies in the area that were going to help as well. Everyone ignored my demands and continued to head onto the motorcycles, I saw one person ID 259 pull out a Micro SMG after I gave demands so I focused my fire on him, however he evaded on the motorcycle. Because nobody listened to the demands and everyone attempted to drive off, our plan to take the money packs wasn't successful so we decided to leave knowing that PD would be arriving very soon and there was no rewards (money/weaponry) left to steal.

It was a high risk - high reward robbery attempt, which is not Non-RP. You had $100k + worth of money packs and even more in heavy weapons that were at stake. You are also doing the banks to gain influence for your turfs. One of our goals is to take those money laundering turfs you are trying to hold, and stopping you when you're robbing a bank is one of the ways to achieve those goals so you can't gain further influence by laundering the money packs you get.

 

Lets go through some of the accusations of the reporting party:

"the reported party was camping outside of the bank after hearing the alarm had went off."

We knew you were going to rob the bank before you even started, and plans were in motion once you started pointing at the tellers.

"Players knowing stay in the vicinity of an armed bank robbery with heavy weapons with no clear goal in sight, they shot us down and reportedly left immediately after doing so."

We took just as much risk that you are taking robbing the bank. We had the same goal that you had, which is to earn money, prop up our turfs, and lower others turfs. So if you want to say that the bank robbery and what your reasons for doing it is Non-RP, then I guess you got me.

"They put themselves in extreme danger of prosecution and even death for no reason whatsoever"

Yes because large amounts of money, influence, and weapons are not enough reason.


To respond to the admin:

The demands were given as the people were running towards their motorcycles in the alley, not as they were inside of the bank. Only one of them, which is the POV you saw from the reporting party in the 1st video, was still inside of the bank when I gave demands. I only shot at that player once he started shooting his shotgun at me, not for failing to comply with plausible demands. They were 4 people running down the alley towards their motorcycles as I gave demands for them to put their hands up, to which they all ignored.

You can see the exact moment demands were given from the 2nd POV here: 

cLykNpd.png

This gave these players an ample amount of time (especially ID 27 and 51) to hear the demands, see myself pointing a gun at them, and appropriately respond before continuing to their motorcycles.

4 people (ID 77, 259, 27, and 51) were in my line of sight and in close enough proximity to hear when my demands were given (as you can see from 2nd video POV). All players had no weapons in their hands when I gave demands and all were extremely exposed on foot. None of these people showed Fear RP and complied with the demands even after having a SMG pointed at them at close range. ID 259 pulled out a Micro SMG as he was running to his bike and after my demands were given. This act of aggression was a sign to me that they were not going to be compliant with my demands, and so I opened fire. 80% of my bullets went in ID 259's direction for pulling out the Micro SMG.

tYpH8t3.png

When he evaded, I chose to fire at ID 51 as this person was also attempting to evade and get on her motorcycle. She was given plenty of time to comply with my demands, but chose to ignore them. She showed no signs of being wanting to be compliant with my demands. Even from her POV you can see she would rather have taken out a .50 when somebody with a SMG is shooting in her direction from her back instead of simply putting her hands up. This proves she recognized the threat and decided the best course of action would be to try to fight back even at a heavy disadvantage (back turned and unarmed) instead of putting her hands up.

IP36KZr.png

Had ANY of the reporting players complied with Fear RP by putting their hands up I would have not opened fire on any of them. Because none of them chose to show Fear RP by complying with plausible demands, I have DM rights on such players. Am I just supposed to let them all get on their motorcycles and drive away scot-free? We don't have non-lethal tools like PD / SD does to just tase people. Our only option to stop players who aren't complying with plausible demands after a reasonable period of time to react is to shoot them with bullets.

I'd like for the admins taking this report to review my accusation of Fear RP rule breaches by the reporting parties and hopefully discuss it in this reports conclusion whether approved or denied. Their rule break significantly changed the roleplay and made it so we lost the opportunity to take a lot of money, weapons, and influence. It also allowed them to successfully evade PD whereas if they showed Fear RP they likely would've been arrested.

Edited by Copperhorse
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Some of your statements are paradoxical, you first say you saw bikes behind the bank and people aiming at the tellers then later in your reply you say 'We knew you were going to rob the bank before you even started.' You act as if a bank robbery is a street stick-up where you can just forge a 30 seconds plan to get away with 'the loot, money and influence', sadly, things do not work that way, and no, we were not taking as large of a risk as you were, you were the factor that was multiplying the risk and involving yourself into it and using at as an excuse. From the video evidence you can obviously see that the majority of the bikes left and police came 5 or so seconds after, how do you plan on sticking us up in a parking lot of a bank robbery, individually stripping a group of assailants that outnumber you 2:1 in time and getting away, blasphemy, funnily enough you have an excuse for everything. In regards to the demands, it is obvious and apparent abuse of the /shout function, if you were to use VOIP and shout at the same time you pasted that demand into chat, nobody, and I mean nobody would hear you, especially from inside the building where some of us were coming from, you knew there was no way for you to take what we had taken from the bank so you decided the best course of action is to empty your clip and leave. Here, hypothetical question, we exit the bank, your demands work and 5 people are on their knees, 3 scouts still roam freely and are a danger, police are actively pouring in and SWAT is already geared up since the alarm has been going on for well over a minute, what do you do?

"Yes because large amounts of money, influence, and weapons are not enough reason."

You surely must be joking, because a large jail sentence, fine and even death are something to easily disregard with your 'backup Chumash, rooks robbing bank' plan, robbing a bank alone is not to be taken lightly, but trying to rob someone at the scene of one and entering a mass shootout goes beyond any sane head.

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This will be my last response unless the admin handling has any questions for me as I'm not going to go back and forth with the reporting party.

"how do you plan on sticking us up in a parking lot of a bank robbery, individually stripping a group of assailants that outnumber you 2:1 in time and getting away,"

It does not take very long to have people drop their weapons and packed money on the floor. ~15-30 seconds max unless people are stalling RP. We were not outnumbered 2:1. We had more people in the vicinity and in the parking lot area than you did.

"in regards to the demands, it is obvious and apparent abuse of the /shout function, if you were to use VOIP and shout at the same time you pasted that demand into chat, nobody, and I mean nobody would hear you"

How am I abusing the /shout function? Ever since I've been in this server, even when it was forced to give demands using text, I prefer to give them via text. The reason the rule used to be like that was because VOIP can sometimes not be heard. Even till this day, there are sometimes problems with VOIP where others can't hear you. To avoid such an instance, I prefer to give demands via text. Don't see how that's abuse when it was actually a rule to make sure everyone could hear the demands. I shouted from the back of the parking lot to people running out near the entrance of the bank. It's really not that large of a distance. If somebody was screaming IRL at that distance it would be clear and concise. 

"Here, hypothetical question, we exit the bank, your demands work and 5 people are on their knees, 3 scouts still roam freely and are a danger, police are actively pouring in and SWAT is already geared up since the alarm has been going on for well over a minute, what do you do?"

Yes, there is a large amount of risk in robbing people who had just robbed a bank. We had people all up and down the highway and around the vicinity to mitigate risk as much as we possibly could, but such an operation is inherently risky no matter what we do to mitigate it. Had there been a significant threat, such as a SWAT insurgent pulling up, we would've had advanced notice to leave. If such a thing were to happen, I would've hopped back onto my drag and left the area. You would've been stuck in the back on your knees surrounded by police. Even if we were not able to get anything (which we would've), the fact that you would not have been able to escape from police is still a win for us. It accomplishes many of our goals.

1. Keeping turfs that we already own.

2. You are unable to raise your turfs.

3. You lose out on $100,000+ in money for your organization.

4. You lose out on $50,000+ worth of guns by being arrested, or losing your life to PD in a shootout.

5. You lose out on $50,000+ in prison fines and spend 10+ hours (ICly many years) collectively in prison.

This would significantly hamper your organization from being a continued threat to our organizations, and was worth the high risk.

Edited by Copperhorse
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I will also add my last input as it seems there is no point to argument anything with the reported party as they wholeheartedly believe there is nothing wrong with what they did.

"It does not take very long to have people drop their weapons and packed money on the floor. ~15-30 seconds max unless people are stalling RP. We were not outnumbered 2:1. We had more people in the vicinity and in the parking lot area than you did."

"We had people all up and down the highway."

You seem like a decent, smart guy, but I firmly believe I would have to literally draw everything for you to understand what I am trying to tell you. Watch both clips, in the 2nd video on the 0:20 mark you can hear blaring sirens and even see lights from the front of the bank, you claim you had people up and down the highway meaning they would inform you of police presence, why stay? Why put everything on the line knowing danger is near? Are you lying about their presence? In what world do you have 30 seconds to rob 5 people of their belongings while nearly the entirety of a police force is pouring in, some units even being present on scene.

If I am liable to lose something that does not mean you are at a gain, you are liable to lose several things with that kind of engagement. You can lose the same if not more, you are fundamentally disregarding your character so you can maybe make my job harder or as you commonly bring up the gang affiliation and influence excuse, petty.

"

4. You lose out on $50,000+ worth of guns by being arrested, or losing your life to PD in a shootout.

5. You lose out on $50,000+ in prison fines and spend 10+ hours (ICly many years) collectively in prison. 

"

The moral of the story is, you got absolutely nothing from what you did as expected, if anything you lost something at best, you absolutely could not have gotten anything if you use common sense, you took the engagement without positively identifying us as gang affiliated as you remain to use it as an excuse, if you hit a random group of people you could still justify your actions by saying 'they're rooks, we're enemies', that can not and will not hold up. 

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