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Barry McKaulkner

Prozacel_Will [ID 72] - NonRP Robbery

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Player(s) being reported: ID 72 Prozacel
Date of interaction reported: 8/17/2020
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1597679149

Your characters name: Mario Volkov

Other player(s) involved: ID 48

Specific rule(s) broken:

15. Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

  • Robberies should be conducted in a realistic manner with reasonable in-character motive using secluded areas. Players should not conduct minor robberies in situations with high risk involved. Desert and forest areas are considered secluded but witnesses should still be taken into account.

  • Players cannot force their victims to withdraw money from an ATM, sell property, or sell vehicles.

  • Players cannot force their victims to hand over assets that are not present in the area.

  • Players cannot steal from players with “NEW PLAYER” above their head unless it is in retaliation. 

  • Players with the (( NEW PLAYER )) tag that deliberately insert themselves into or start active crime scenes lose their new player protection during those illegal activities.

  • Players may not steal from their faction treasury as the F4 menu is OOC.

  • Permission for prison break must be approved by a Moderator+ prior to the attempt.

  • Players may participate in no more than 1 prison break attempt within 1 OOC week.

  • Official Factions may attempt 2 additional breaks in the case the prisoner is the faction leader.

"

How did the player break the rule(s)?

In this scenario, I had just got onto the server and met up with Charlie (ID 32) at Mirror park gas station, ID 48 saw us and started radioing call outs that we were at the gas station talking to each other. Prozacel came as back up and openly robbed me at gun point at a gas station with no prior knowledge of my possessions to make it worth the risk. Rather than waiting for us to leave or be vulnerable they decided to RP a robbery in the public. As can be seen in the video later on, I show my inventory where I had nothing not even a gps. I believe this was a high risk, low reward robbery with very poor rp. Prozacel claimed I was being robbed for talking to Charlie at a gas station because we were "enemies".

Evidence of rule breach:

https://streamable.com/43ubpb

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Hello, 

I reply very simple and concise: RP > Ruleplay 

The exact 100% scenario happened here:

So, when you (as a gang) are doing it, is fine, when we do it, is not anymore. 

In this case, as also YuSoHelpful said in the report aboveThe IC reasons were there you are in a gang war. 

So , is normal to chill surrounded by other rival gang members that you are at war just because you are in a gas station. Since when gas stations are NCZ? Also, you had the time to leave, as Charlie did. I didn`t came pointing a gun , first I told Charlie using words, no guns, discreetly. He left, he made the good choice. 

In rest about the robbery i don`t think there are any problems how was done, the party was taken behind the store, in a secluded area. 

If you consider that only a gun is a high reward? Maybe you can think about a drag which is a 6k chop and also a radio freq which , from my point of view, makes more than a gun in a war. So, we had what to take from you.

 

Thank you very much and I`ll leave the staff to do their job, no matter what would be the conclusion 

Edited by Prozacel
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Hello, 

I reply very simple and concise: RP > Ruleplay 

The exact 100% scenario happened here:

So, when you (as a gang) are doing it, is fine, when we do it, is not anymore. 

In this case, as also YuSoHelpful said in the report aboveThe IC reasons were there you are in a gang war. 

So , is normal to chill surrounded by other rival gang members that you are at war just because you are in a gas station. Since when gas stations are NCZ? Also, you had the time to leave, as Charlie did. I didn`t came pointing a gun , first I told Charlie using words, no guns, discreetly. He left, he made the good choice. 

In rest about the robbery i don`t think there are any problems how was done, the party was taken behind the store, in a secluded area. 

If you consider that only a gun is a high reward? Maybe you can think about a drag which is a 6k chop and also a radio freq which , from my point of view, makes more than a gun in a war. So, we had what to take from you.

 

Thank you very much and I`ll leave the staff to do their job, no matter what would be the conclusion 

I don't understand why you would claim we are at war when we are not (unless you are violating the war rules). So in this case, your examples should not apply because we are not in an official war.

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It seems that you are off topic a bit. I bet that you didn`t even open the report cause you would have got the answers in there. But I`ll point them out for you:

1. I didn`t claimed we are at war, YuSoHelpful himself stated that, so i think is pretty clear about what we are talking here. Is about an open conflict between our gangs. We are enemies, we are in a war, in a conflict, however you want to name it.

2. The person reported in the report attached was one of your homies , part of your gang. How can you say that we are not enemies when he argued in his defense that we are and that is the reason RPly why the robbery was done by him. And, the report was denied because of that . That means, is confirmed, we are enemies, so it makes sense RPly for me to do the same. Remember this question: Since when gas stations are NCZ ?

Let`s not talk about your gang and official war , is off-topic again. 

Thank you.

Edited by Prozacel
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If the prime reason you robbed me in a public location was because I could have had the radio freq even though I didn't speak on radio once while at the gas station, (which not to mention I wasn't even on it, you had to search my phone to get it) then you are claiming you can rob in any public location because you suspect we have the radio frequency. I don't understand how this falls into line with the new robbery rules at all considering you robbed me for a chance at the radio frequency in an extremely public area and nothing else.

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Sorry i won`t bother anymore to answer , only if the staff members will ask me to do it. Read the report that I attached and you will find the answer to your question. RP > Ruleplay

 

P.S.: later edit . Starting tomorrow i`ll be on vacation so if any evidence is needed from me i just want to let you know that i won`t be around. Thanks.

Edited by Prozacel
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After careful deliberation, I have decided that further statements are required.

Player ID 72 - Prozacel_Will - do you have any evidence that places the victim of your robbery in a hostile situation against you previously, and without having NLR triggered afterwards?

Player ID 52 - Mario_Volkov - did you previously engage in hostile situations against the reporter, without having NLR separate that incident and the reported incident?

The aforementioned players have 24 hours to respond to their respective inquiries, or the report may be concluded without their response.

Sincerely,

alexalex303

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I have not engaged in any personal hostile situation against Prozacel. We have more than likely seen each other in a couple fights but nothing that would stand out to have a personal vendetta against each other. I had never spoken ICly to Prozacel up until that robbery.

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Before this we had a chase with his group, I don`t know if Mario was involved or not. How can I distinguish between a lot of people with masks, random clothes. Maybe he changed his clothes meanwhile. 
But what I know for sure is that Charlie was involved in that chase and I personally chased him for a long period of time. Some time passed (I can`t remember how much) and after that we find him at MP together with Mario . That is also the reason why i approached Charlie first and didn`t went for Mario. But as long as they are part of the same group that we are in conflict, this gives me enough reasons to believe the gas station is not his NCZ so I can rob them.

Edited by Prozacel
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Hello.

I'd like to begin by apologizing for the delay in the resolution of this report, this was not caused by laxity, but by a strong desire to reach a fair decision. The specific situation was discussed with a great number of staff members and the overall RP and rules surrounding player robberies were discussed by most of the staff members as well. 

It was made very clear in the original announcement that we feel that player robberies were impacting roleplay negatively, specifically that players were unable to perform menial tasks without fear of getting targeted for easy money. This includes populated areas, that are either populated by players, or by people that would be there in our realistic imagination. 

This has led to some confusion among people that are not civilians, but active members in criminal organizations, and the rules of engaging such (sometimes imagined) opponents. This was further complicated by the (somewhat recent) stricter enforcement of the New Life Rule, to the standards befitting a server expecting the roleplay level that we expect from our players.

For the sake of being complete, the New Life Rule is currently being enforced so that if you have a conflict with a player, or a group of players, and they die during a roleplay interaction with you, that conflict is now null and void. You can not organize further attacks, without receiving further reasons from their side, and any and all past transgressions are to be forgiven.

The fact that you are in an "open conflict" against his gang is not a valid reason to conduct such a public robbery. You require a reason to attack Mario specifically, and one that was not rendered invalid by the NLR since then. (i.e. neither of you should have died since that incident happened). This does make targeting people that you are in unofficial conflict against harder than before, and that is on purpose. There should not be a constant stream of being robbed, or constantly robbing "enemy" players in public settings, or after NLR was triggered. You do not have carte blanche to rob every single person you believe to be affiliated with "Rooks" or "Void" or any other enemy you believe you might have, in a public setting, unless a proper war was approved by Faction Management.

The fact that this did require a lengthy amount of deliberation, and because the reported player has no previous infractions of a similar type, Prozacel_Will will receive a formal warning that he was spoken to about player robberies and valid reasons to perform them.

To be perfectly clear, the reasons provided by @Prozacel in this player report, specifically that someone else was involved in a pursuit, but that Mario himself was not, is not a valid reason to rob Mario. A gas station is not an NCZ, however, if you don't have a specific reason to rob an individual, it is very close to being one. 

@Barry McKaulkner if your losses fit the value requirements for a refund request, you may go ahead and post one, and receive any items lost as a result of this situation, as it should not have happened.

Sincerely,

alexalex303

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