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26 minutes ago, Gekko said:

It is oocly, I got thrown out of PD just cuz of rewarding random people with good rp by not puting all charges, lets say people actually handing themselves while robbing a store. I was not even caught of doing it, I was just saying in the forums that I did and that was it bye bye PD.  

PD has really loads of rules that you need to obey, but I know how  messy it is, lets say pursuits, shootouts, cops not valuating hostage life and so on. But I know the other side of criminals as well, trying to abuse everything and balancing on the line of crossing the rules.

The problem on this server that people wants actually to win rather than have fun, money is ultimate goal in here not the experience of rp.

Exactly. I think that's the sad part that money drives people to break rules or shoot cops in a situation where they would probably IRL serve the time rather than adding more time by forcing the cops to add those charges.

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On 6/27/2020 at 8:07 PM, ClankH said:

Lets both be honest here, as someone that experiences both sides, and as someone that is really close friends OOCly with people that are dedicated crims on the server. Intricate planning does NOT happen. Lets take YOUR gang Dojin-Kai for example. You guys hit banks all the time, whenever possible. Always the same thing. If its pink cage bank? You stack people on roofs, get people inside and then pray to god that cops drop fast enough. Every single time I have been to a bank robbery on my PD character the past week or so, its been with Dojin-Kai alone or with Dokin-Kai being backed up by MurdaBlock. You guys literally MAKE IT TOO EASY to stop the bank. All it turns out to be is a shootout where PD will win due to numbers AND ACTUAL tactics. NOBODY is above the rules, Whenever I have interacted with Dojin en-masse, they follow the pursuit line in an attempt to help their friends, which end up making the police have to act more aggressive by pitting and ramming the suspect vehicle. There was also an instance where Dojin tried to do the classic Zeta technique of blocking the sewer entrance with a contender instead of a bigger car which ended with our kamacho being able to ram through the contender and get both the blocker and the evader. You guys literally set yourselves up for failure when it comes to evading the police and then question WHY you cannot win. Theres been plenty of times where cops have been absolutely massacred by gangs due to ACTUAL tactics being used by them.

Factions already suffer a hit to their budget, Cruisers being destroyed, stolen etc. That isnt free. Even taking the GPS out of your faction vehicle will hit the vault budget. 

 

 

I want to hear from the gang members or leaders if they actually plan their shit. Do you guys just rob banks and if the cops come you shoot them, or do yall plan it out. Because from what I have read, it seems like yall just rob the bank and play TDM until it's over, when there are lots of things that gangs could do to play it more smart. Especially the big ones that have a lot of members in them

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59 minutes ago, cmaeron_abduljabar said:

I want to hear from the gang members or leaders if they actually plan their shit. Do you guys just rob banks and if the cops come you shoot them, or do yall plan it out. Because from what I have read, it seems like yall just rob the bank and play TDM until it's over, when there are lots of things that gangs could do to play it more smart. Especially the big ones that have a lot of members in them

Exactly, and its the same for both sides PD and Criminals. Play it smart, and you'll be okay. Don't and be f**ked. It's not the game, but the playa 😄

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2 minutes ago, Percival said:

Exactly, and its the same for both sides PD and Criminals. Play it smart, and you'll be okay. Don't and be f**ked. It's not the game, but the playa 😄

I think what most crims in this thread are trying to point out is that us as PD don't really care if we die or  not given that we don't lose much, meaning that we are more prone to taking risky 1vsX moves against gang members. 

 

For the most part, I think this could be corrected by adding a FearRP clause to include specific law enforcement actions, but at the same time I haven't experienced this to a degree that would warrant this. 

 

I think others have mentioned ways that law enforcement as a whole can improve when it comes to introducing penalties for dying, but we are there as a force to keep order on the server and to rarely be defeated, the goal of criminals should be to evade and out smart, instead of confront and shoot. In a sense you guys should have to "play smarter" because you're the underdog. As an example I would point to a guerilla group part of a revolutionary force VS a well armed and equipped government force. The only way the revolutionaries will win is if they out smart their enemies and pick their battles wisely, focusing on guerrilla tactics. 

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47 minutes ago, Percival said:

Exactly, and its the same for both sides PD and Criminals. Play it smart, and you'll be okay. Don't and be f**ked. It's not the game, but the playa 😄

As a higher up in a newer gang, we avoid banks entirely since the most recent changes, as they have made banks, in my opinion, worthless on the risk vs reward slider.

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31 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

I think what most crims in this thread are trying to point out is that us as PD don't really care if we die or  not given that we don't lose much, meaning that we are more prone to taking risky 1vsX moves against gang members. 

 

For the most part, I think this could be corrected by adding a FearRP clause to include specific law enforcement actions, but at the same time I haven't experienced this to a degree that would warrant this. 

 

I think others have mentioned ways that law enforcement as a whole can improve when it comes to introducing penalties for dying, but we are there as a force to keep order on the server and to rarely be defeated, the goal of criminals should be to evade and out smart, instead of confront and shoot. In a sense you guys should have to "play smarter" because you're the underdog. As an example I would point to a guerilla group part of a revolutionary force VS a well armed and equipped government force. The only way the revolutionaries will win is if they out smart their enemies and pick their battles wisely, focusing on guerrilla tactics. 

I can assure you FearRP and Valuing life is enforced in PD inside and outside.

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54 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

As a higher up in a newer gang, we avoid banks entirely since the most recent changes, as they have made banks, in my opinion, worthless on the risk vs reward slider.

Ye i think the 4h timer was too small, but 16h is too much. You get 1 shot in a day to do it and even then all it takes is for some random guy to try to "talk to the manager" by lockpicking the door. This timer also doesn't allow much in terms of preparation as you can't afford to just wait because someone else will go and trigger it.

One of the best bank robbery setups ive seen was done by dojin, where they pulled PD to the other side of town and then went to rob a bank. The setup was great, but at that point, i don't think the potential rewards match the risk and losses.

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1 hour ago, Percival said:

I can assure you FearRP and Valuing life is enforced in PD inside and outside.

I'm not talking about something blatant. I am talking about something subconscious.

If you have Person A and Person B in a video game. Person A has just started playing, he is careful with his actions given the lack of gear he has, trying to play things safe. He knows if he dies he will lose what little he has. Meanwhile, Person B has every weapon in the game, he has a stash in his base and if he were to die he wouldn't really care too much, given the minimal loss he would suffer.

When both these players go against someone, they will go in with different mentalities, one will value his items more and thus try and be more careful (as much as possible). While the other player will go into the situation focusing solely on the game-play aspect, with no thought or worries about what he will lose. 

This is what I mean. I'm not sure, if this can be corrected with added context to FearRP rules, but adding the fear of losing something besides their life is what criminals mean when they say then want PD to lose something. 

This would never be an issue in real life, given that there is an actual fear of losing your life, in the game that doesn't really happen. We have FearRP rules to regulate obvious unrealistic actions, but these don't account for subconscious small actions or attitudes that some players might have because they don't really lose anything. 

However, a lot of the suggestions about letting people loot cops or having cops pay for their own guns don't sit well with me either, it doesn't seem like an appropriate solution given the multiple reasons others have stated. Maybe the objective should be to balance the playing field by allowing for easier access to weapons by gangs and criminals, making them focus more on the crimes they commit and the quality of RP and not whether or not they will be broke after one shootout. Just brainstorming at this point.

Edited by Kyle White Raven

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6 hours ago, cmaeron_abduljabar said:

I want to hear from the gang members or leaders if they actually plan their shit. Do you guys just rob banks and if the cops come you shoot them, or do yall plan it out. Because from what I have read, it seems like yall just rob the bank and play TDM until it's over, when there are lots of things that gangs could do to play it more smart. Especially the big ones that have a lot of members in them

By what I hear on gang frequencies it's literally "Who is going in? Who has the drill? Who is staying on the roofs? How many are they? Is it clappable?" *Shootouts starts and they lose*

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3 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

By what I hear on gang frequencies it's literally "Who is going in? Who has the drill? Who is staying on the roofs? How many are they? Is it clappable?" *Shootouts starts and they lose* 

Well then if that is the case it's no wonder gangs get fucked by PD whenever they try and robs banks or do anything that involves PD. They don't have a good enough plan. If I were the leader of a gang, I would try to find any problems that I would have if I did, for example, rob a bank, and try to have solutions for those problems. Not only would that make it good for the gangs themselves, I think it would make it interesting for PD, too. Since it isn't the usual shooting that normally happens when gangs do shit like this. Unfortunately, I don't have anybody that would want to join my gang if I ever made one, so hopefully other gang members or leaders see this and change their rob and shoot strategy. I would guarantee that the outcome would be way different. 😁 

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Hello.

We think that the majority of posters on this thread have been civil and sharing their opinions, however, there have been some insinuating that the police is somehow above server rules, and some comment(s) about police being "butthurt" etc. Either way, we feel that this discussion has run its course and I am going to give a short breakdown;
 

  • We've got no interest in lowering prison times or inserting a cap. This has been said several times by us on community suggestions, and quite frankly, our stance hasn't changed in regards to this. Prison times for each individual charge on the penal code were lowered, some more significant than others (e.g. murder had almost a 50% decrease). This is to teach that the more severe your actions are, the more severe the IC consequences are going to be. You don't have to turn a Reckless Operation charge to a Felony Evading, or a Grand Theft Auto to an Attempted Murder (or Murder), however, if your character decides to do that, it will also face the harsher consequences. We encourage members to post suggestions about what improvements can be made to the prison to make your STAY more enjoyable, the less action RP they involve, the more interested we'll be to actually push for implementation. 
  • We also have no interest in making Police Officers lootable, this is also something that have been covered in several suggestions in the past. Our stance on this hasn't changed. Many roleplay servers these days purposely do not make cops lootable for the sole reason of not making them targets. Police Officers in a first world country do not get robbed in real life, or maybe it has happened once or twice in the past, but it's certainly something very unique - Unfortunately, regardless of what rules we implement, this will happen - and it'll open up an easy and cheap way of obtaining guns (and heavier guns). We have no interest in making this a possibility. 
  • In terms of the /pw system that Police Cruisers have, we have brought up potential changes, one which will add ammunition to the guns that they have, and when they run out of ammunition, they will need to refill.
  • In terms of budgeting, we feel as if this would be redundant development because although an IC topic, the Government would increase funding for the department to make sure that they remain equipped and can enforce laws in San Andreas. This is also slightly controversial because how do you determine a good police budget in the current environment on the server with mass shootouts everyday? 
  • The rules on our server rules apply for Police Officers as much as anyone else. If a Police Officer in a regular police cruiser deliberately rams a vehicle unrealistically, they will should receive the same treatment as anyone else. We've even punished past and current staff members in Law Enforcement factions for performing unrealistic maneuvers. 
  • We are not interested in implementing a limit to how many faction members can be in PD or SD at this moment. People seem to forget that this is a 24/7 server with players in various roles. PD/SD is not here to focus on one or two criminals groups, they are here to serve the entire community with Police RP, from civilians at the fishing pier, the mines, to the criminals shooting each other at a drug lab, to the people calling 911 about being lost etc. You also have to take into account that these factions have members from all over the world in various time zones, and who play various hours/week - Due to this inconsistency, they need to ensure that they can staff their factions properly to try and provide most of the server with Police RP, not just one group at the time.
  • As for other development suggestions brought up in here, there have been continuous talks about changing and adding more realistic features, however, our sever development is currently focused on criminal and civilian features, and a Police Officer having to refuel their car is not a direct benefit for either group. 


With that being said, if you have any OOC complaints about legal factions that does not pertain to server rules, you should try and resolve it with the relevant faction leadership first. As a last resort, you can always reach out to legal faction management, @Archaeah, @BallinByNature or myself.

- Lewis.

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