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Hoxton_Curry

Bank robbery suggestions

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The first few days bank were added they were too OP and you could empty the entire vault without PD even noticing, sometimes we would drive by the bank 30 mins after the robbery and we'd see that the bank tellers are still knocked out, later on NBDY made it that the alarm goes off instantly when the vault door opens even if you do everything correctly and at the first look this seems fine but it's not. You need a lot of preparation, time and supplies to pull one off now and the rewards simply isn't worth it. We've tried to rob a bank after they made it that the alarm goes off when you open the vault door, We had 6 people, we caused a tac 1 somewhere on the map and then instantly hit the bank, All of us had heavies and pistols, by the time we opened the second door in the vault and before we even started grabbing money we already had an officer outside calling backup (and we'd have even more if we didn't cause a distraction earlier), We had 4 people inside and 2 outside with heavies and we started a shootout with the first responders just like planned but the issue is they came too early so they called in rest of the police force before we could even get some of the money, it ended up with 2 of us getting away and 4 of us being captured, out of those 4 two of them died and the other two got 5-6 hours in prison and about 50k+ in charges + losing their weapons and getting their vehicles impounded, We took a lot of time to prepare and come up with a plan and it failed, we did all of this just to get 50k each from the bank, and we had 6 people which is not a lot , the only way people these days manage to hit banks is when they have 2 gangs on it and they're fighting all of PD and I'm sure this is not what staff and devs want because it's bad RP and its just another mass shootout or they're doing it when there is barely any PD on and the reward is even less.

tl;dr banks are not worth it

 

Suggestion 1:

Remove the second door inside the vault, this way It would be a lot more balanced so the criminals have more time to take the money because currently if you do everything correctly, cops are on their way when you open the vault room and there is simply not enough time to take a decent amount of the money because you have to picklock this door first

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Suggestion 2: 

Instead of the 1st suggestion, they could just increase the reward by making the money packs on the pile worth 20k or even more instead of 10k, this way the rewards is higher and the risks and the amount of time you need to spend inside is the same

Suggestion 3:

Currently if someone comes to a bank and aims at the tellers and leaves the bank wont be robbable for next 16 hours, which in my opinion is pretty stupid, the 16h timer should only come if the vault door was opened, but if they only aimed and left the timer should be 1 or 2 hours. 

Edited by Hoxton_Curry
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Agreed, in the first few days banks were fun and intriguing as you still had to time it well in order to pull it off, there were also a lot of issues and little inconsistencies but it was still worthwhile, going from doing 5 banks a day to 0 just shows how big of a waste of time and money the updated bank system is, personally I think bank should be reverted to the long timers but not the automatic alarm as it would still allow us to do them sneakily, with the risk of someone calling cops or PD randomly showing up. Fighting PD for 50k is just simply not worth it when they get their gear for free and we have to spend hundreds of thousands for our gear/fines.

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Also IMO its non rp to have PD call for the national guard everytime there's a bank robbery. There is no way that the National Guard would show up to something like that IRL. People that strictly play Law Enforcement need to understand they don't need to win every situation. When a cop dies they essentially lose nothing. They don't lose guns because the guns are provided by the faction, they don't lose money, they don't lose time. When a criminal dies or goes to prison we lose everything, guns, money due to fines or the loss of guns and drugs. Time due to the time we spend in prison. PD and SD need to come up with better strategy and RP during these bank robberies instead of hitting the department radio calling in for the national guard. It ruins all the fun of risking everything we have to rob the bank to only have a 10% chance of succeeding. 

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21 minutes ago, ImQub3dttv said:

Also IMO its non rp to have PD call for the national guard everytime there's a bank robbery

You're correct for the most part, however, the in-game government mobilized the National Guard in response to the rise of gang violence: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?f=641&t=50367. In real life banks aren't being robbed in the same location multiple times on the same day, but that's how the roleplay works, so therefore the government needs to roleplay a response.

As for the suggestion(s) themselves, they seem respectable. I can't give an opinion on the second vault door because I haven't actually tried to rob a bank. Also, 16 hours seems fine in my opinion. My reasoning is because IRL the same bank wouldn't be robbed twice on the same day, it would require planning and setup. If the cooldown timer were shorter, PD/SD would be occupied all the time with bank robberies and wouldn't be able to respond to regular 911 calls.

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11 minutes ago, WobblierDog15 said:

As for the suggestion(s) themselves, they seem respectable. I can't give an opinion on the second vault door because I haven't actually tried to rob a bank. Also, 16 hours seems fine in my opinion. My reasoning is because IRL the same bank wouldn't be robbed twice on the same day, it would require planning and setup. If the cooldown timer were shorter, PD/SD would be occupied all the time with bank robberies and wouldn't be able to respond to regular 911 calls.

The 16h timer is fine after a bank robbery (successful or unsuccessful) it becomes an issue when someone aims their gun just because, sets off the alarm and leaves and then nobody can touch the bank for 16h

Edited by Hoxton_Curry
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huge +1 with everything you said.

        There would be also another solution that may rest both sides, make it 20% chance rate (or whatever you feel right) of the alarm going off if the door gets drilled (as for roleplay, there could be a civilian spotting the robbery and call 911).

        Why should it be like this? Because realistically a bank heist is done in 5-6 men, nothing more. At this moment you would need at least a whole 2 gangs to be able to fight your way out, which, as Hoxton said, would only create a Gang vs PD team deathmatch,  surely not what ECRP staff wants. Realistically if there is no one to trigger the alarm, it ain't getting triggered, and splitting the cash with 30-40 people, is not worth it.

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18 hours ago, WobblierDog15 said:

You're correct for the most part, however, the in-game government mobilized the National Guard in response to the rise of gang violence: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?f=641&t=50367. In real life banks aren't being robbed in the same location multiple times on the same day, but that's how the roleplay works, so therefore the government needs to roleplay a response.

As for the suggestion(s) themselves, they seem respectable. I can't give an opinion on the second vault door because I haven't actually tried to rob a bank. Also, 16 hours seems fine in my opinion. My reasoning is because IRL the same bank wouldn't be robbed twice on the same day, it would require planning and setup. If the cooldown timer were shorter, PD/SD would be occupied all the time with bank robberies and wouldn't be able to respond to regular 911 calls.

I have no issues with the NG. My issue is PD calling them for every bank robbery even when PD along with SD out number the gang 2 to 1. Plus PD has swat, SD has SED they are heavily armored and have stronger weapons. Now I would understand calling the NG if the LEO'S were severely out numbered but most of the time this isn't the case. 

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36 minutes ago, ImQub3dttv said:

My issue is PD calling them for every bank robbery even when PD along with SD out number the gang 2 to 1.

That's not always true. The National Guard is not made up of that many people, therefore they can't respond all the time. I've personally only seen NG respond to a couple robberies, and plenty more without NG.

Edited by WobblierDog15
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42 minutes ago, ImQub3dttv said:

I have no issues with the NG. My issue is PD calling them for every bank robbery even when PD along with SD out number the gang 2 to 1. Plus PD has swat, SD has SED they are heavily armored and have stronger weapons. Now I would understand calling the NG if the LEO'S were severely out numbered but most of the time this isn't the case. 

The NG has only responded once to a bank robbery when we called them in, and they showed up later than a bosnian war criminal trial. We've been forced to call them in due to the fact gangs are forming alliances and using their numbers to get the advantage of the cops responding to the bank robbery., such as doujin kai and murderblock forming their alliance and even bribing the council for protections. So that's zetas, triads, NLA, doujin kai and murderblock considered a large alliance.

Those are FIVE different gangs (Not counting the smaller gangs that want to earn cookie points for helping the council.) working together and have all means to fuck up PD/SD due to the fact they can use the DM rules to all open fire on cops who are trying to stop a bank robbery due to  an ally being under fire. 

All five of these gangs working together can heavily outnumber the police force, especially when most of the robberies occur when the EU cops go offline and the US shift comes in. Not to mention the fact PD/SD is unable to open fire due to protocols such as non-leo's are able to engage on cops for the tiniest reason. 

Edited by Actualbears
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19 hours ago, ImQub3dttv said:

Also IMO its non rp to have PD call for the national guard everytime there's a bank robbery. There is no way that the National Guard would show up to something like that IRL. People that strictly play Law Enforcement need to understand they don't need to win every situation. When a cop dies they essentially lose nothing. They don't lose guns because the guns are provided by the faction, they don't lose money, they don't lose time. When a criminal dies or goes to prison we lose everything, guns, money due to fines or the loss of guns and drugs. Time due to the time we spend in prison. PD and SD need to come up with better strategy and RP during these bank robberies instead of hitting the department radio calling in for the national guard. It ruins all the fun of risking everything we have to rob the bank to only have a 10% chance of succeeding. 

You are either lying and trying to convince those who read of what you are saying or you have never participated to a bank robbery. National Guard was called in only ONCE because PD and SD were outnumbered at least 2 to 1 and they arrived at the end of the shootout.

They don't get called everytime and what you are saying simply doesn't happen.

Try to be truthful when discussing something or if you don't know what you are talking about, simply don't talk about it.

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23 minutes ago, Actualbears said:

The NG has only responded once to a bank robbery when we called them in, and they showed up later than a bosnian war criminal trial. We've been forced to call them in due to the fact gangs are forming alliances and using their numbers to get the advantage of the cops responding to the bank robbery., such as doujin kai and murderblock forming their alliance and even bribing the council for protections. So that's zetas, triads, NLA, doujin kai and murderblock considered a large alliance.

Those are FIVE different gangs (Not counting the smaller gangs that want to earn cookie points for helping the council.) working together and have all means to fuck up PD/SD due to the fact they can use the DM rules to all open fire on cops who are trying to stop a bank robbery due to  an ally being under fire. 

All five of these gangs working together can heavily outnumber the police force, especially when most of the robberies occur when the EU cops go offline and the US shift comes in. Not to mention the fact PD/SD is unable to open fire due to protocols such as non-leo's are able to engage on cops for the tiniest reason. 

Personally I haven't seen 5 gangs on 1 bank robbery, first couple days we had triads zetas and NLA doing them but this was mainly because it was new and we were trying it out, recently dojin and mudra are doing it so that's only 2 gangs but ye it's bad RP but doing it with a group of 6 is nearly impossible to do unless the cap for the bank to be robbable is barely reached but then the reward is even less

Edited by Hoxton_Curry
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as Dojin we did the first 3 bank jobs by ourself  recently  murderblock and our self did one i think 1 together,  to show them how its done as  bank jobs have a heavy punishment,  when ever we have done one we have to all go very heavily strapped up  that cost us a lot of money,   So then to fail would add a lot more time and charges. 

Like what has been stated regardless how clean you pull the job off once that door is open the PD/SD/Swat are all over it and even to the point  they will just rush in with no value to them as they dont pay for the guns or armour   

 i give this idea massive backing as it would give the chance for groups that have planned it out and got everything right to rob the bank.

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My issue is the vault door doesn't sync correctly.  As a LEO responding, it's possible for somebody to hide behind the metal vault door which appears closed for me, but open to the person in there, and they can freely shoot through the door while I can't.  You're right that it's kind of nuts to have a system in place that more or less encourages a massive battle, to the point of a national guard being formed.

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