The Ruined State of Criminal RP

[Dashingly]

Excellent points made, bring back turfs, remove faction caps for official factions that are displaying proper RP standards. Make criminal RP worth-while and fun so that if a player is spending 4+ hours in a non-afkable jail which contains little to no RP and players essentially just leaving their PC running with GTA on in the background while tabbing in every 10 minutes or so for the afk timer. 

I understand the point of the new robbery rule, but as you said, now the whole city is a NCZ except for very niche areas where you won't find anybody.

+1, I hope the founders consider this thread when moving forward with criminal RP. We know this is an RP server, we know we don't want this server to be a total cops and robber server, but we also don't want to be restricted on every little piece of criminal RP that there is. I mean honestly, what do you even say to someone who asks to be recruited to your gang now that it is full? "Sorry man, we don't recruit new gang members because of the new city law," or something along those lines lol? As you stated in the original post, OOC rules are reaching wayyyy too far into IC matters to the point where you're almost metagaming by your character acting so wildly different then what they normally would act like.

[Henry Goodman]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:23 PM, kushsauce said:

Robbery/Crime Limitations:
- Lets be completely honest with ourselves here. The new rules, because they're not specific enough and is just insanely vague, makes it so that criminals cannot perform crimes. Yes, there were petty crimes done before the rule change, however, are you sure that was Zetas/Triads/Official Criminal Factions? There are so many random solo criminals that rob civilians as well. I'm not sure from other official crim factions, but I know that Triads hold a high standard when it comes to robbing someone.
 

Yes, i would be sure its coming from official gangs as it is coming from new in town gun blazers.

[DarkSoul]

The Main point of thread which was stated by @CallumMontie was not biased, but my god there are so many biased comments here. I'm actually surprised!

[DarkSoul]

**+1** I strongly agree with everything that was stated!

**A brief beck ground about me:**

        I've been playing in ECRP for past 2 years and half. I've been a gang leader, a member of a small gang, and individual criminal who used to hang out with different gangs(SC, La Fam ... ), and also part of 3 official gangs: The Irish, The Rooks and Triads. I should say right now the only reason I even log in is the people who I care about as friends (IC, OOC) and not because of good game play or RP opportunities because they are non existent for me at this stage of ECRP. 

**Criminal Faction Member Cap:**

        I think 40 member Cap was ideal for 2 years or even 1 year and half ago! Mainly because the average players online in ECRP used to be 100! But understanding that currently we are averaging 600 players online, 60 is very reasonable number for a gang to cover all time zones. And to be completely honest, if it gets to the point where I have to get kicked from F4 menu because of the cap, I DO NOT CARE. I will not drop my color nor ICly I would stop hanging out with my gang members and help them. To even begins with I never joined an Official faction because they have F4 menu or LapTop! I joined because they have high quality RP and I enjoy playing with the members.  So really I don't think this 40 cap would effect the current balance other than too much ooc involvement which ruins RP. I don't even see how it would help small gangs ...!

**Scripts**

        ChopShop are completely dead because of several reasons: 1- cars despawn after a while when the player log out (for server load reasons). 2- If you even find any cars it doesn't pay enough to worth the risk because cops are constantly camping the chopshops. 3- it's not interactive! you just go there, type /chopshop and wait 8mints.

        Drugs are good and bad, The good is the fact that it has a long process of getting the tables, mats and the risk of it explode. The bad is the fact that you just go to a sell point and hit drop. Where is RP opportunity in that? There is absolutely no reason to do Drug deals in streets. There is no use for them nor are there any economic benefits rather than selling them in drop off points.

        Gun Trafficking and Turfs been covered by @CallumMontie.

**About Monopoly**

        This should not even be discussed in forums. It's a very simple subject, you spend enough time on something you get very good at it. A lot of people are talking about how The Council is unfair. Well just so you know the council worked very very hard to get there. They spent years toward their goal. I bet you if there are 2 3 more gangs who actually put that much effort and oocy dedication and time, they will get there too. No one wants to do that though. A good example is people who don't work hard enough so they don't have enough money, and all they do is complain and hate the rich because they worked so much more. It is what it is. How is it fair for Council to have the same amount of power than the people who only dedicated less than a year in ECRP criminal life?

**Rules**

        It really feels like people on top are implementing vague rules with Good intentions without looking at what the actual result of that rule is in RP after 2 weeks of implementation. For example the robbery rules, it can be a very positive rule if they polish it! Though currently it's just a huge NCZ for players to abuse. There are many more rules like this.

       At the end I would like to thank every member of this community who truly cares and staffs, developers for working hard and hearing us.

[Eloah]

HUGE +1 TO WHAT BRUCE WROTE .
from what i saw the updates were about to make the server much more realistic and it was successful.but we are here to enjoy from the game and if every one wants something 100% realistic we could just walk to the street and do what ever we want . Criminal rp is ruined and its not fun anymore .

+1

Edited June 4, 2020 by Eloah

[Navster]

+1 

[Grape]

+1!

[TreMetal]

Just cap alliances at 60 and keep faction limit 60. Boom, both problems fixed. If you want a maxed faction then your alliance is only yourself. No need to drop down to 40. Ease peasy.

[Msato]

1 hour ago, TreMetal said:

Just cap alliances at 60 and keep faction limit 60. Boom, both problems fixed. If you want a maxed faction then your alliance is only yourself. No need to drop down to 40. Ease peasy.

Makes no sense to limit IC relations, let alone IC recruitment compared to what it was set at as a standard for near on 2 years.

Criminals are asking for less OOC intervention on IC matters, not more.

[TreMetal]

30 minutes ago, CallumMontie said:

Makes no sense to limit IC relations, let alone IC recruitment compared to what it was set at as a standard for near on 2 years.

Criminals are asking for less OOC intervention on IC matters, not more.

Okay, so you are in favor of all players having access to the benefits of being an official criminal faction, I assume? Seeing as that is an OOC limitation on smaller gangs/criminals.   

[Msato]

29 minutes ago, TreMetal said:

Okay, so you are in favor of all players having access to the benefits of being an official criminal faction, I assume? Seeing as that is an OOC limitation on smaller gangs/criminals.   

There is a difference between an OOC limitation that can be earned via hard work & dedication, instead of an OOC limitation that no one gets to make an input on and they cannot change in their own control.

I want more Official Gangs, however, the "smaller" factions need to display the effort, dedication and quality to earn this.

[Itzsonzy]

3 hours ago, CallumMontie said:

There is a difference between an OOC limitation that can be earned via hard work & dedication, instead of an OOC limitation that no one gets to make an input on and they cannot change in their own control.

I want more Official Gangs, however, the "smaller" factions need to display the effort, dedication and quality to earn this.

"i want more official gangs" > proceeds to wipe out all potential competition 

Honestly just no allies for official factions sounds great to me, that way factions can see buffs without the worry of what we see now. Zerg fights, little to no RP during fights, toxic mentalities on all sides. All that matters right now in terms of strengh is numbers, and i think forcing people to work internally with those numbers would make a step towards making fights interesting. But hey, your gunna disagree with what i'm writing near instantly as (bluntly) alot of these changes specifically effect your faction and zetas, no one elses, hence why it likely wont be changed as i'm very sure FM don't have the stomach to not let 1 band of factions control the entire criminal aspect of the server

[Msato]

1 hour ago, Itzsonzy said:

"i want more official gangs" > proceeds to wipe out all potential competition 

Honestly just no allies for official factions sounds great to me, that way factions can see buffs without the worry of what we see now. Zerg fights, little to no RP during fights, toxic mentalities on all sides. All that matters right now in terms of strengh is numbers, and i think forcing people to work internally with those numbers would make a step towards making fights interesting. But hey, your gunna disagree with what i'm writing near instantly as (bluntly) alot of these changes specifically effect your faction and zetas, no one elses, hence why it likely wont be changed as i'm very sure FM don't have the stomach to not let 1 band of factions control the entire criminal aspect of the server

Proceeds to wipe out competition over months of conflict, most of which actually are left to gain Official prior to conflict reaching it's peak.

Marcello's > Irish > Wanted > Rooks > WCA. All ended up going to war over long IC tensions that built over time.

People seem to forget that none of the groups currently "in power" were always there, we earned it individually and over time by playing the correct cards. There was a time when Triads were actually at war with Zetas, and NLA at war with Triads & Zetas. People have clearly chosen to repeat the same mistakes bar a small number, who managed to reform and earn their way into success.

Groups crying OOCly for Alliances and such to be forcefully disallowed are frankly pathetic. Play your cards correctly and think about the long term plan for your faction, as most currently operate on a mere day to day basis. Man the fuck up.

 

As I have always said, I'm an advocate for more Official Gangs that bring the correct RP standard and mindset to the server, instead most currently fail to live due to poor leadership decisions.

Edited June 7, 2020 by CallumMontie

[nikoh]

19 minutes ago, Icarus2766 said:

The difference, which alot of the "council" seems to ignore is that the Zetas and Triads road to power is completely different than any other gangs. You never had the type of adversity Wca, Rooks, Russians etc had. In all of those fights you had atleast a 2/1 advantage, in the Rooks scenario it would be upwards of 4/1. I understand that I look like a hater when I promise that it is not the case, in my opinion it is human nature to want to be on top so why should the Council have to give smaller gangs special consideration because they can't handle the big bad council? Like you said you earned that position but you are kidding yoursleves acting like you faced the same challenges the other gangs in the city are currently facing with the massive 3 man zerg army plus friends and allies. But that is life and it is how things work in the city and I respect that, Council prey on the mid sized gangs, and the same mid sized gangs that complain about council prey on the small gangs  and the small gangs that complain prey on solo guys and on and on. That is the way it should be but all I am saying is the city has lost out on so much criminal roleplay because of the Council not wanting other gangs having cartel connections or being a potential threat, street gang like WCA, Street racing gang like Wanted, Shadow organization like Rooks, Mafia like Russians etc.

There's too much ignorance in this post to even take it seriously

[Msato]

21 minutes ago, Icarus2766 said:

The difference, which alot of the "council" seems to ignore is that the Zetas and Triads road to power is completely different than any other gangs. You never had the type of adversity Wca, Rooks, Russians etc had. In all of those fights you had atleast a 2/1 advantage, in the Rooks scenario it would be upwards of 4/1. I understand that I look like a hater when I promise that it is not the case, in my opinion it is human nature to want to be on top so why should the Council have to give smaller gangs special consideration because they can't handle the big bad council? Like you said you earned that position but you are kidding yoursleves acting like you faced the same challenges the other gangs in the city are currently facing with the massive 3 man zerg army plus friends and allies. But that is life and it is how things work in the city and I respect that, Council prey on the mid sized gangs, and the same mid sized gangs that complain about council prey on the small gangs  and the small gangs that complain prey on solo guys and on and on. That is the way it should be but all I am saying is the city has lost out on so much criminal roleplay because of the Council not wanting other gangs having cartel connections or being a potential threat, street gang like WCA, Street racing gang like Wanted, Shadow organization like Rooks, Mafia like Russians etc.

For you to say this shows how uninformed and oblivious you actually are, especially given thay you only joined the community in 2020. Each group alone had their struggle to the top, just because we are theew now it doesn't not mean others can earn it. Aztecas grew up through the exact same life span as all they gangs you named, faced the same if not more pressure than most and still managed to revolutionise themselves, adapt and reform their gang to one that worked its way into power, never crying for help IC or OOC like people currently do. 

To say Triads alone never had the same circumstances that the current environment is makes me laugh, it was much worse to survive and grow back then than it is now. When Triads were working for official there were already Zetas, Clowns, Irish, Marcellos, Vice and Mercia all at official. 3 of the groups we were actively at war with for a large part of our growth, thay being zetas, clowns, Irish - also know as the council before us. People choose to forget about this and act as if we have always been on top, but that is merely the case. The current environment that gangs grow in is child's play compared to what molded most of the current long lasting gangs into what they are. 

I'll leave you this picture as food for thought, and let's get back to the topic. 

(Bruce & Ding Wong on their knees at gun point of Jay Gamble and his crew in early 2019.)

Edited June 7, 2020 by CallumMontie

[JayGamble]

11 hours ago, Icarus2766 said:

The difference, which alot of the "council" seems to ignore is that the Zetas and Triads road to power is completely different than any other gangs. You never had the type of adversity Wca, Rooks, Russians etc had. In all of those fights you had atleast a 2/1 advantage, in the Rooks scenario it would be upwards of 4/1. I understand that I look like a hater when I promise that it is not the case, in my opinion it is human nature to want to be on top so why should the Council have to give smaller gangs special consideration because they can't handle the big bad council? Like you said you earned that position but you are kidding yoursleves acting like you faced the same challenges the other gangs in the city are currently facing with the massive 3 man zerg army plus friends and allies. But that is life and it is how things work in the city and I respect that, Council prey on the mid sized gangs, and the same mid sized gangs that complain about council prey on the small gangs  and the small gangs that complain prey on solo guys and on and on. That is the way it should be but all I am saying is the city has lost out on so much criminal roleplay because of the Council not wanting other gangs having cartel connections or being a potential threat, street gang like WCA, Street racing gang like Wanted, Shadow organization like Rooks, Mafia like Russians etc.

You gave me a hell of a laugh today, I ain't gonna lie. No gang will ever face the adversity Zeta's faced on the road to the top. We just played our cards right, and are now here. Those who stand beside us are in a very similar position, facing extreme adversity and overcoming to eventually create a longstanding positive relationship and reform The Council.


If you think now is more harsher than when we came up, you wouldn't have had a good time in 2018/2019 here.

Edited June 7, 2020 by JayGamble

[Copes]

I opposed council with far more alliances and numbers than they had at one point. Council's dedication, roleplay and experienced members caused us to get stomped.

But nobody wants to talk about that  jUsT a NumBERs GaMe BRo

[PersianWariorr]

talking shit in ooc why they have a council and they are out number and they are big as fuck, is bullshit, 

people have to sort this out ic But! there is something came from Rules, some dudes are friend with someone.... and they keep looking for a mistake from you to kick ya out from server, 

when turfs was in server nobody had no problem about DM rules no Admin abusing no corruption no etc... stay alive if you can or get lost. but when turfs gone, gangs keep getting problem because of DM, Turfs gave K.O.S to kill ya enemy when they comin inside ur turf and, nobody cant complain and using advantage of friendships n using em on reports, 

anyway warehouse and gang system was very good in 2018, i think if turfs with the old rules come back and warehouse system change to the old one , maybe criminals can breath and kill their enemies without any fear of getting reported.

Edited June 7, 2020 by PersianWariorr

[mikebumbum]

11 minutes ago, Copes said:

I opposed council with far more alliances and numbers than they had at one point. Council's dedication, roleplay and experienced members caused us to get stomped.

But nobody wants to talk about that  jUsT a NumBERs GaMe BRo

do you mean with wanted? because you had zetas triads and wca hit just wanted i hope you are talking about beforehand because you didnt have nearly as many numbers or alliances during that war

[Copes]

2 minutes ago, mikebumbum said:

do you mean with wanted? because you had zetas triads and wca hit just wanted i hope you are talking about beforehand because you didnt have nearly as many numbers or alliances during that war

I’m referring to a previous war, ye. We were around for over a year with multiple conflicts.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Copes

[MrUntouchable215]

19 hours ago, Itzsonzy said:

"i want more official gangs" > proceeds to wipe out all potential competition 

Honestly just no allies for official factions sounds great to me, that way factions can see buffs without the worry of what we see now. Zerg fights, little to no RP during fights, toxic mentalities on all sides. All that matters right now in terms of strengh is numbers, and i think forcing people to work internally with those numbers would make a step towards making fights interesting. But hey, your gunna disagree with what i'm writing near instantly as (bluntly) alot of these changes specifically effect your faction and zetas, no one elses, hence why it likely wont be changed as i'm very sure FM don't have the stomach to not let 1 band of factions control the entire criminal aspect of the server

When I saw you post this, I had to double check if you were who I thought you were. You're Aki from the previously Shelby's, yes? It's odd to me that you would say that, as your group did the prime example of what you shouldn't do as a new gang. When we were at war with WCA, you quite literally attempted to join a war that had absolutely nothing to do with you. There's even video on YouTube on how y'all were joining the war. Y'all legit just joined a war based on a 2 day relationship with another faction just for smoke.

I still to this day I neverr understood the mentality of complaining about another group for the sake of it. I used to think that people had genuine reasons and I used to listen in and try to understand their pov. Yet when you see people who were all on some "Fuck yeah, let's back the council in war!" To "Fuck Council" because they got the same treatment they tried to dish out to others, it's borderline laughable. Check these guys forum history and you will find them backing the council 100%. 

I think I'm starting to understand it though. It's the old saying my old head used to say "Don't dish out what you can't take"

Edited June 7, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[Itzsonzy]

2 hours ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

When I saw you post this, I had to double check if you were who I thought you were. You're Aki from the previously Shelby's, yes? It's odd to me that you would say that, as your group did the prime example of what you shouldn't do as a new gang. When we were at war with WCA, you quite literally attempted to join a war that had absolutely nothing to do with you. There's even video on YouTube on how y'all were joining the war. Y'all legit just joined a war based on a 2 day relationship with another faction just for smoke.

I still to this day I neverr understood the mentality of complaining about another group for the sake of it. I used to think that people had genuine reasons and I used to listen in and try to understand their pov. Yet when you see people who were all on some "Fuck yeah, let's back the council in war!" To "Fuck Council" because they got the same treatment they tried to dish out to others, it's borderline laughable. Check these guys forum history and you will find them backing the council 100%. 

I think I'm starting to understand it though. It's the old saying my old head used to say "Don't dish out what you can't take"

The sad part is that you lack context and this opinion is purely made off assumptions.

No, we did not join the war for "smoke". We joined as we saw that the council was trying to spread shit between us, WCA, and Dojin-Kai, therefore we chose to stand with them rather than be forced onto the side we did not support. Before making this choice, we were not aware that we could be barred from the war for OOC reasons as FM did not communicate anything to us before our choice was made.

And if you think that our relationship with Dojin-Kai was a 2 day one, then clearly you are not on the list of need to know and i can see why.

As most reddit keyboard warriors would say;

"Don't comment if you dont know what your talking about"

[MrUntouchable215]

18 minutes ago, Itzsonzy said:

The sad part is that you lack context and this opinion is purely made off assumptions.

No, we did not join the war for "smoke". We joined as we saw that the council was trying to spread shit between us, WCA, and Dojin-Kai, therefore we chose to stand with them rather than be forced onto the side we did not support. Before making this choice, we were not aware that we could be barred from the war for OOC reasons as FM did not communicate anything to us before our choice was made.

And if you think that our relationship with Dojin-Kai was a 2 day one, then clearly you are not on the list of need to know and i can see why.

As most reddit keyboard warriors would say;

"Don't comment if you dont know what your talking about"

My man, you weren't forced onto either side, there's a better solution, it's called mind your business. I'm trying to keep what I'm saying to a minimum because the conversation we had I assumed was a private one, but either way, sitting out was an option and you made the concious decision to attempt to partake. No one was focusing hard on Shelby's until that day and that's a fact. So yes, my point still remains. I had your own people telling me that it was a mistake and shouldn't have even happened, so I'm not basing that statement on a random thought. My point is, people complain and want hard ooc limitations in order to benefit themselves. This cap doesn't effect us as much as it effects who comes after us. If y'all are complaining about numbers now, imagine when a new official faction comes up and they're capped at 40 while the council still exists. Talk about out numbered.

Also to add, I'm not trying to be hostile towards you at all. All I'm saying is, people will kick the hornet's nest and act surprised when they get stung by hundreds of hornets. That mentality of "I can do it but when it happens to me? I don't like that shit" really needs to stop and I urge people to start smelling themselves and realize that their shit stinks too. If my RP isn't up to your standards, I apologize but at least make sure yours is up to par as well before you begin discrediting people.

Edited June 8, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[Itzsonzy]

7 minutes ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

My man, you weren't forced onto either side, there's a better solution, it's called mind your business. I'm trying to keep what I'm saying to a minimum because the conversation we had I assumed was a private one, but either way, sitting out was an option and you made the concious decision to attempt to partake. No one was focusing hard on Shelby's until that day and that's a fact. So yes, my point still remains. I had your own people telling me that it was a mistake and shouldn't have even happened, so I'm not basing that statement on a random thought. My point is, people complain and want hard ooc limitations in order to benefit themselves. This cap doesn't effect us as much as it effects who comes after us. If y'all are complaining about numbers now, imagine when a new official faction comes up and they're capped at 40 while the council still exists. Talk about out numbered.

Also to add, I'm not trying to be hostile towards you at all. All I'm saying is, people will kick the hornet's nest and act surprised when they get stung by hundreds of hornets. 

Alright, so no hostility yet you make comments on another faction and their choices based soley on assumtions and word of mouth? Ok some may have thought it was a mistake and it likely was, but i wont sit here and have you chat arse about our choices when you don't even know the first thing about the circumstances we made them in. 

"Mind our own business?"

Yes, i will mind my own business while having 2/3 council organizations hitting us unprevoked while others dont bother.

Also, i couldn't care less about the cap, just about allies. As long as you can ally with as many as you like ( 3 man council btw when officials can only have 1 ally o.O ) fights will be nothing but low quality zerg, die, repeat. This cap effects you guys most beacuse as i've seen in every, single fight in the last few days with the council, skill means nothing it is literally who has the most numbers.

[MrUntouchable215]

16 minutes ago, Itzsonzy said:

Alright, so no hostility yet you make comments on another faction and their choices based soley on assumtions and word of mouth? Ok some may have thought it was a mistake and it likely was, but i wont sit here and have you chat arse about our choices when you don't even know the first thing about the circumstances we made them in. 

"Mind our own business?"

Yes, i will mind my own business while having 2/3 council organizations hitting us unprevoked while others dont bother.

Also, i couldn't care less about the cap, just about allies. As long as you can ally with as many as you like ( 3 man council btw when officials can only have 1 ally o.O ) fights will be nothing but low quality zerg, die, repeat. This cap effects you guys most beacuse as i've seen in every, single fight in the last few days with the council, skill means nothing it is literally who has the most numbers.

Assumptions and word of mouth? So your own people don't count as information? You guys specifically saying we never had previous altercations that warranted you being hit doesn't count as information? Aight cool. If what I said was hostile, then you must be hostile as hell as most of your comments involve our factions and you making your own assumptions, don't be a hypocrite.

Numbers don't mean as much as people would like them to, no, they don't. Unofficial gangs have no member cap, nor restrictions on alliences. So making the excuse about numbers doesn't make too much sense. I'm not sure what you're expecting from fights but I don't care what restrictions you add, shootouts will never be pretty. Feeling overwhelmed? Go recruit and make relationships. Don't preach unfairness because you want your personal limitations to be universal. You want to only run 30 members? Cool, but know that's your decision and yours alone. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you back to back. If you want to compare sizes, talk about who's RP is better, and who has better shooters? you know how to reach me, but that's not what I'm looking to do here and that's a pointless conversation to have. You saying these recent fights proved that numbers are the main factor? I'm sure I know some goons that will disagree.

Edited June 8, 2020 by MrUntouchable215