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QingAn

ID 82, 98 Meta, DM, Fear RP

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Player(s) being reported: 82,98
Date of interaction reported: 5/22/2020
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1590128654

Your characters name: Treyvonne Demarquise (159)

Other player(s) involved: Aaron Wiezman (53), Meltzer Leibowitz (167)

Specific rule(s) broken:

IC and OOC Interactions

  • Players are required to remain in-character (IC) at all times.

  • Text chat, VOIP, radio, phone and commands like /ME and /do are to be used only for IC content.

  • IC content must not contain acronyms like “lol” or “u” or smiley faces excluding IC SMS.

  • For OOC content, players must use chat commands that encase the content in brackets. For example: (( this is OOC content )). OOC chat commands are /OOC, /O, /B, /PM and /F.

  • OOC videos or screenshots can be used as IC evidence only if the footage contains the character using the /RECORD command to hold a phone in their hand.

  • Property interiors can have cameras only if the owner roleplays installation and takes time stamped screenshots with the camera angle as evidence. Exteriors only if there is an object.

  • You may roleplay a hidden camera, wire, or dash cam in a vehicle if recordings are unedited and include roleplay starting and ending. Attempts to search must be answered truthfully in /do.

  • Sexual, torture, or extremely gross roleplay is allowed only if all involved parties (participants and witnesses) have agreed to it in OOC text chat, prior to the actual roleplay being performed.

  • Only administrators are allowed force pause RP or investigate rule breaches.

  • Only administrators are allowed to void roleplay scenarios at their discretion.

  • Players are welcome to voice their opinion but should never disobey administrators.

  • A /REPORT does not pause roleplay unless an admin does so.

Metagaming (MG)

  • Metagaming is the act of relaying IC information through any method not considered IC that has the potential to change current or future roleplay scenarios or using that information.
  • Mixing IC and OOC information without any benefit is a minor MG offense. For example, a player uses IC chat to call someone by their player ID displayed above their head.

Fear Roleplay (FRP)

  • Fear roleplay is the concept of roleplaying fear for your character’s safety and life.
  • Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is considered to be in direct danger:

When you are on foot or bike and a weapon is aimed at you at close range.

• When you’re in a vehicle that is stalled or turned off and a weapon is aimed at you close range.

• When the attacker lowers their weapon to type or roleplay, your life remains in direct danger.

• Driving a vehicle into an active shootout more than once without the intent of providing cover for a friend or yourself, or fleeing with it.

  • Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is NOT considered to be in direct danger:

• When you are in a car which engine is not stalled.

• When you have a firearm drawn and are facing the other person before they attacked.

• When the attacker’s view is obstructed by an object or when they turn their back on you.

  • As a victim, whose life is in direct danger:

• You must display reasonable value for your life and comply with the demands of your attacker.

• You cannot call 911 or call your friends or allies to aid you.

 

Deathmatch (DM)

  • Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without a proper roleplay reason and interaction.
  • Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:

• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.

• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.

• If they are not in compliance with plausible demands, attempt to escape, or call backup.

  • A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands.
  • A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands.
  • If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s).
  • Vehicles cannot be used to attack a player on foot more than once, including a failed attempt.
  • Vehicles cannot be used as a weapon in an active shootout unless it's unavoidable when fleeing an active shootout.
  • Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:
    1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)
    2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.
    3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen.
  • You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason.

 

 


How did the player break the rule(s)?

Aaron Wiezman, Meltzer Leibowitz, and myself were performing a holdup situation on 82 after he offered to sell an illegal weapon. This was done outside of a No Crime Zone. After giving him a warning to get down (and showing him the /down command ooc), he did not respond to the rp and began telling us we are breaking rules ooc. He said ooc that he was calling an admin and said RP was on pause.

Shortly after, player 98 arrived at the scene (82 was being held up and is not allowed to call friends or metagame). 98 proceeded to DM Aaron Wiezman, Meltzer Leibowitz, and myself without RP. 

In summary, 82 took advantage of the fact that we are new players and tried to mislead us ooc in order to get out of the rp scenario. He then used means outside of the rules to communicate with player 98 to DM us.

Below is the full chat log of the incident (screenshot 1-4), the holdup on 82 (screenshot 5), the DMs by 98 (screenshot 6 - 7)

Evidence of rule breach:

image.thumb.png.52c2aa68855428e736b33af0ebe93a27.png

image.thumb.png.a329b6c8e534b06c7945604806931508.pngimage.thumb.png.acdf09aab54dc86306300852426ee6c8.png

image.thumb.png.38989a99238dd897f64ac4c0982e0a41.png

image.thumb.png.e696a40f67b35ec88997b616e4543271.png

q1-min.thumb.PNG.b9346e56f8789bfa1c41c11979179b7d.PNG

q2-min.thumb.PNG.daa9d5db2a58903d430234687197a2e2.PNG

Edited by QingAn
Further Clarification

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Hello! I'm ID 98 as seen in your screenshots, this is a very lengthy report so I'm going to start addressing your claims by parts

Deathmatching- Regarding the DM claim, I pulled up as I saw a man in broad daylight on his knees, so I briefly asked are you getting robbed to which ID 53 tells me. "Get the fuck out of here before I pop you" and aims a gun at me. My character has a long backstory of being a criminal and aiming a gun at me is simply not going to slide. Aiming a gun at another person is well within DM rights I'm just not sure whether the person reporting knew that he had pointed at me. So I get out of my vehicle and instantly kill the man who had pointed his fire arm at me. I was then going to leave until the second individual ID 159 points his gun so he is shot down aswell. And then lastly, the man in the white car attempts to run me over being VDM, and he is shot down aswell. I did call for backup so I wasn't planning on just taking a 1v3 by myself however the events played out differently.

Metagaming- Never met this person in my life, I helped in my eyes an innocent man being robbed in broad daylight and his attackers were being hostile towards me.

IC and OOC interactions- You highlighted a rule you were breaking, there was no admin present therefore RP is not paused, just because you "called one" doesn't mean it's paused.

Screenshot of the man attempting to say RP was paused with no admin present:screenshot.JPG.cfc99da5d179401aa4e692f17c5afdab.JPG

Clip of demands and gun being pointed:

Unedited footage of them dieing: 

 

NOTE: To the admin reviewing this please consider punishing 167 for VDM as he clearly tries to run me over during a shootout as well as ID 53 attempting to pause RP with no admin present, thank you.

 

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Hello, 

 

I am 167 from the reports. I find it hard to believe that no metagaming was involved. It seemed to me like the man being robbed was stalling by pausing RP and asking how to get on his knees OOC and raise his hands. These are common commands, and the man being robbed is not a new player. A few minutes later, player 98 comes and kills everyone (no RP at all initiated, and no demands. He just shot 53 while his back was turned and gun not pointed), even though 53 approached him without pointing a gun at the end there, and informed him of a pause on RP that the man being robbed (52) had initiated. I think I also remember seeing player 98's vehicle several times en route to the robbing location? (Can admins confirm?) . After 98 finishes killing us, a 3rd friend seems to come in a Money Transporter vehicle and joins in on the RP, indicating to me that 98 and this 3rd party responded to metagaming.  

 

I would also say that player 98 broke the fearRP rule as once player 53 pointed a gun at him and told him to leave, he just lingered in the same location for some time and did not flee, as would be the appropriate response of 98's claim of being a bystander. After lingering, 98 circled back at close range of the person who pointed a gun at him and went to his location where he got out and shot everyone. To me, a normal person would not linger after having a gun pointed at him in close range, and not only that, circle back to same location where 53 was pointing a gun at him. I have a clip showing this if the admins would find this useful. 

W.r.t your claim that i used a vehicle and is thus FearRP rule break, I entered the car while the fighting broke out and I was attempting to hit the attacker then flee. When this did not pan out, I just tried to flee. 

 

Edited by meltzer
Added some clarity

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5 minutes ago, meltzer said:

 I was attempting to hit the attacker then flee. 

 

You can't run someone over on foot purposefully, you just admitted to VDM. Second of all, you are trying to accuse of me being connected to a random guy with a money truck that did absolutely nothing to this situation, this report is very sad and if you want to accuse of metagaming please have some proof because I have never interacted with any of these people. I am in no way fear rp'ing just because you a point a gun at me doesn't mean I have to leave the situation, I put my car in cover and killed all 3 of you. If you are really upset that you lost your 3 weapons I am happy to give them to you, won't be responding to this report as now you are throwing useless accusations.

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50 minutes ago, Rekamon said:

You can't run someone over on foot purposefully, you just admitted to VDM. Second of all, you are trying to accuse of me being connected to a random guy with a money truck that did absolutely nothing to this situation, this report is very sad and if you want to accuse of metagaming please have some proof because I have never interacted with any of these people. I am in no way fear rp'ing just because you a point a gun at me doesn't mean I have to leave the situation, I put my car in cover and killed all 3 of you. If you are really upset that you lost your 3 weapons I am happy to give them to you, won't be responding to this report as now you are throwing useless accusations.

I am simply pointing out what my impression was of the interactions. You had a gun pointed at you while you were idling in your car. Instead of flee the scene or display some sort of value on your life, you not only lingered in the area, but you inched forward a bit and rove right back right next to the same exact location where the man was pointing a gun at you to begin with. A reasonable person that fears for their life would at least drive around the entire perimeter of the lake and put their car in cover. Not drive right back where he came from and in the line of fire of someone with a firearm pointed at them.

 You must display reasonable value for your life and comply with the demands of your attacker.

 

With respect to your claim to VDM: "Vehicles cannot be used as a weapon in an active shootout unless it's unavoidable when fleeing an active shootout."

You can see that I was attempting to flee the location at the end of your video. 

It's also a telling sign to me that you cut out footage where you break FearRP rules and the 3rd man comes in the vehicle transport truck.

 

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Thank you for your patience as we reviewed the report. Prior to concluding this report, we would like to hear statements from the players as specified below. 

Pablo_Escolar | ID 82 - Why did he try to pause role-play as well as why he felt the need to excessively type OOCly?

Tyler_Rogers | ID 98 @Rekamon - Do you have anything else to add to your response that we should be aware of?

Aaron_Wiezman | ID 53 - Why did you try and pause role-play? What was your reasoning behind it? With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

Meltzer_Leibowitz | ID 167 @meltzer - Why did he not try to immediately leave the situation as can be seen by him attempting the ram, stopping, then driving away after? With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

Trevonne_Demarquise | ID 159 @QingAn - With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

The above mentioned players will receive 24 hours to provide their side of the story. We look forward to hearing back from you!

Best Regards,

Senior Moderator Aldarine & Senior Support dawpi.

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This is Pablo Escolar. I tried to pause the RP as why I excessively type OOCLY is because I want to let them know about the newly implemented robbery rules that they cannot ROB somebody in a public place. Hope that my answer make things clearly.  

Edited by rossinniralph

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I am Aaron Wiezman, ID 53. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Why did you try and pause role-play? What was your reasoning behind it?

A: I was not trying to pause the RP, I personally did not want it to stop. ID 82 called for the pause because he "called an admin", unaware of the rule that he is not able to call a pause as  he is not an admin himself I complied and relayed his request to ID 98, which I might add, was confirmed to 98 that it was paused at 82's request. He must be shifting blame to cover himself; to any seasoned RPer, which I am in games other than GTA, if it is evident that a bunch of people are OOC and not RPing, coming in and gunning them down is definitely NonRP, no matter his reasoning for coming back to the scene. He obviously wanted to come back and play hero, but it was evident that nothing was going on as when I saw his vehicle stay after I told him to fuck off, I did not attempt to force him to leave. Instead, he stayed and gunned me down with my back facing him, not with a gun pointed at him as he is quick to state. (reference to ID 98 and not ID 82). 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it is an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

A: The location wasn't an issue, Pablo's actions were. The area for the robbery was one not that frequently visited for starters, can confirm by the fact that I've been there for hours on my own and have hardly run into anyone. As for the logistics behind the robbery, the plan was for me to have him move behind the building to conduct the robbery, out of the street, but he instantly broke RP and said he called for an admin forcing us to stay where we were (because he refused to do anything but stand there at gun point). My actions were justified and there originally was going to be little to no risk, but since ID 82 broke character and forced us to stay there where he could call for help/stall out for other people there was no option for us to move, kind of giving the feel that he was forcing us to stay in an area where an outcome more favorable to him (powergaming vibe in my opinion).  If we give him benefit of the doubt and say that he did not metagame and call ID 98, a friend, and assume that he chanced by right near the start of the robbery (prior to this ID 82 DID say to ID 167 that he WILL call his friends if this goes wrong) then he did in fact stall out for another person to come and alter the situation in his favor, showing a form of Powergaming.

picturemessage_x55fe4wp.4pg.png

*Treyvon's interaction with ID 87 is from a difference RP scene we were a part of and is not related to this issue*

Edited by NayJay
Added annotation for uploaded image and fixed formatting/language

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:07 PM, Rekamon said:

 If you are really upset that you lost your 3 weapons I am happy to give them to you, won't be responding to this report as now you are throwing useless accusations.

I'd like to add that offering to give us guns OOC is meta and is in really poor taste.

Edited by NayJay

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I have nothing else to add to this report, I feel like I've summed up everything perfectly in my first response, thank you.

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6 hours ago, dawpi said:

Thank you for your patience as we reviewed the report. Prior to concluding this report, we would like to hear statements from the players as specified below. 

Pablo_Escolar | ID 82 - Why did he try to pause role-play as well as why he felt the need to excessively type OOCly?

Tyler_Rogers | ID 98 @Rekamon - Do you have anything else to add to your response that we should be aware of?

Aaron_Wiezman | ID 53 - Why did you try and pause role-play? What was your reasoning behind it? With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

Meltzer_Leibowitz | ID 167 @meltzer - Why did he not try to immediately leave the situation as can be seen by him attempting the ram, stopping, then driving away after? With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

Trevonne_Demarquise | ID 159 @QingAn - With the newly implemented robbery rules, what was your Rationale for conducting a robbery on the side of the road of a residential area in the morning and do you believe that it's an appropriate location with the new rules in place? Do you believe that the "high risk for low reward" was taken into account? 

The above mentioned players will receive 24 hours to provide their side of the story. We look forward to hearing back from you!

Best Regards,

Senior Moderator Aldarine & Senior Support dawpi.

This is 167. As soon as I knew that the situation was going south, I got in the car and panicked trying to leave and take someone out on my way. I rememered reading a rule when i applied which stated that it's not breaking the rules of you kill someone while leaving a situation. My mistake that trying to take someone out on my way out is against rules, It wont happen again. 

W.r.t robbing during mid-day: we had surveyed that particular location and found an extremely  low traffic pattern. We also planned to lure the robbery victim behind the building to completely avoid view from everyone, however, as soon as i asked him to get out of the car, he paused RP. I did not know that this was not allowed. I think 98's sudden appearance to the location and lack of FearRP rule as well as non-RP is apparent and I can provide evidence of this since he conveniently deleted the part where he did that. Please let me know if this is required, and I will make effort to upload the clip. 

 

Overall, I'm certain that this is a bit of a messy RP situation, so I thank admins for time and help reconciling this issue. I hope to continue to be a positive Roleplayer and provide for an enhancing experience in Eclipse RP. Please pardon my ignorance in the meanwhile. I have re-read all rules and understood them as best as i could. 

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Thank you kindly for your patience as we reviewed this report. After significant discussion as well as review of all evidence and statements provided, we will be concluding this report as follows:

Player Tyler_Rogers will receive no punishment for the reported incident.

To explain the rationale for this lack of punishment I would like to review the evidence submitted by the above mentioned player along with the provided statement. It can be seen that the reported player drives by and questions if the man is being robbed. At the approximate timestamp of 0:03 the player has a firearm pointed at him in his vehicle and a threat is issued. Once this occurs the player exits the scene immediately. This action against the player can be seen as a direct threat to his life and as such granted him Deathmatching rights which allows his subsequent attack. In the second provided video oit can be seen that the first person he attacked was the same as the one who issued the threat. Following this, at the approximate time stamp of 0:19 it can be very clearly seen that another player aims a gun, which continues to provide the right to attack. Finally, an attempted ram can be seen at the approximate timestamp of 0:29 which results in another opening for forceful engagement. It is our conclusion that each of these attacks were proper and none were in violation of the Deathmatching rule. In regards to the claim of Fear RP for the individual, when the earlier firearm was aimed and the threat issued, the reported played proceeded to exit the scene. Following this he positioned himself to scout the situation and checked for a moment of opportunity. There was no active shootout occuring that would risk his life and his actions are not viewed as poor in this case. The actions portrayed showed proper fear for his life from the time of him being in the vehicle to obtaining cover and engaging. As such, there is no punishment being issued for this Fear RP claim either. Finally, in regards to the megagaming claim, there is absolutely no evidence of metagaming provided and it is not far fetched to conclude that the reported player was in the general area and noted the robbery happening especially seeing as it was very publicly done.

Player Pablo_Escolar will receive a Non RP punishment for the reported incident.

To explain the rationale for this punishment I would like to turn your attention to the posted screenshots by the reporting party. It can very well se seen that within these screenshots this player is excessively typing in OOC chat and not remaining in character which is absolutely necessary when you are expected to immerse yourself in your roleplay environment. Along with this, there were attempts to pause the situation which can only be done by a Moderator+ as specified in the rules. While I understand that the moment may be inopportune, players breaking rules does not grant you permission to break your own and you are still expected to let the roleplay continue while you are waiting for a response to your report. The excessive OOC chat , ignoring of active roleplay, and attempts to pause have the potential to change a roleplay scene significantly as it keeps the scene from playing out and due to this you are receiving the punishment.

Player Aaron_Wiezman will receive a Player  Thef warning for the reported incident.

Player Meltzer_Leibowitz will receive a Player Theft warning for the reported incident.

Player Trevonne_Demarquise will receive a Player Theft warning for the reported incident.

To explain the rationale for all three warnings listed above, I would like all parties to review all evidence and pay close attention to the location where the robbery took place in particular. In statements provided it was mentioned that the location was scouted and people were not seen in that location. To rebutt this claim, with the new robbery rules we specifically ask that you immerse yourself in your environment and simply not seeing players in a location does not mean that the location would not be realisticly populated. This robbery was conducted in a residential area right on the side of the road. This would, realisticly speaking, be highly populated with people of all age groups as they would live in the houses right in front of the robbery location and there would be cars driving on the road. That would provide an incredible amount of witnesses to this action which makes this an incredibly poor area for a robbery. Due to this you are all to receive a warning pursuant to the robbery rules and you are asked to be mindful in the future. Please note that this is a warning on your account and not a punishment, however, should you repeat the same or similar actions in the future you will be held to knowing this rule and you may face harsher reprimands by reviewing staff.

Best Regards,

Senior Moderator Aldarine Senior Support @dawpi

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