ID 145, ID 138 - DM

[KrismeisterSG]

Player(s) being reported: ID 145 and ID 138
Date of interaction reported: 27/10/2019
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1572187660

Your characters name: Mike Liu

Other player(s) involved: N/A

Specific rule(s) broken:

14. Deathmatch (DM)

• Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player or their property without a proper roleplay reason.

• Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:

• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.

• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.

• If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules.

• A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands.

• A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands.

• If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s).

• Vehicles cannot be used to attack another player more than once including a failed attempt.

• Attacking another player with no engagement in roleplay is not allowed.

• Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:

  1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)

  2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.

  3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen.

• You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason.

How did the player break the rule(s)?

I just joined Weazel News and I was reading the discord IC bulletin as requested, so I was alt tabbed right outside Weazel, the moment I alt tab back in I see these two guys aiming at me and blocking my path with a bike and a Comet Retro. My engine was running the whole time so, by the rules, I don't have to fear for my life. Understanding the situation I just decide to go back in reverse gear and leave the scene when, while doing so, they start opening fire on me, without reason, shooting me twice.

Plus sending me this through PM after the scene. https://gyazo.com/5ac46025d67d10b9ce1550e7b6022ee5

Quick reminder for the two guys that kept on PMing me, saying that that was not DM.

Examples (but not limited to), where your character’s life is NOT considered to be in direct danger:

• When you are in a car which engine is not stalled.

Evidence of rule breach:

https://streamable.com/ay2ra

[Berlin]

Hello, Im ID 145

Clearly you were Alt-tabbed and didnt hear and see us pointing a gun at you and gave you more than 10 seconds to comply

Your life was in a DIRECT DANGER as 2 armed man were pointing a gun at you from close range, but you didnt care.

This is my side of view : https://streamable.com/jgst9

Also i want to add that he insulted us first and i answered him back the same he told me. Its funny that he didnt screenshot what he said at OOC.

https://imgur.com/a/YkEruyS

I want to mention that if you decide to go afk and you don't have time to roleplay or to be in game, quit the game or go in a NCZ place, so you can read you discord, its not my fault that you are afk, IC i could never know something like that and i assumed that you just ignored our demands and in the end you decide to run. This is not an appropriate report.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Berlin

[KrismeisterSG]

You probably are using another account, you clearly seemed pretty angry at me by saying that ''You think I don't know the rules cause I'm a new Player?''. This is a valid report, and yeah, I said ''you fucking idiots?'' because you clearly don't know the rules, went straight to PM as soon as I drove off, getting angry at me through PM the whole time. Doesn't mean anything if I was alt tabbed, I know that RP can't be paused. We're talking about you DMing and that's it. As the rules state I can stay in my car the whole time with my engine running and be safe. I was not in direct danger.

I'll let the admin taking care of this report handling it. Good luck.

PS. You're legit giving me demands while still standing ON your bike and not even aiming at me. Come on, man.

Edited October 27, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[Berlin]

Its simple, you said "you fucking idiots" in OOC. and i was asking you in /PM that why do you think this was a rule break? And you didn't give me a proper answer

Its not a DM if we gave you 10 seconds to comply and you didn't.

I explained everything from my side, and yeah let's leave it to the admins.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Berlin

[Berlin]

Hello again, ID 145 here

 

ID 145 - Helsinki_Serb | @Berlin - Why did you also proceed to shoot at the reporting parties vehicle while they were not under the Fear roleplay rules?

Watch this video please, How is he not under the Fear role-play rule in this situation? https://streamable.com/jgst9 (my view)

We blocked his way with our car, pointing 2 weapons from close range at him, i gave him demands in VOIP and also typed for him afterwards

And he drives away, thats why we shoot him.

ID 145 - Helsinki_Serb | @Berlin - Why did you send the PM to the reporting party which was seen as an OOC insult?

Honestly, when he said it first in OOC that "are u idiots?" , i PMed him telling we are not idiots but "idiots like u make the server low quality"

I would like to apologize here for what i told him , we both crossed the lines, so i think it might be possible to not get punished for OOC Insults for both of us (if he agrees tho)

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Berlin

[Emulsify]

After some careful deliberation between myself and Xposed, we would like to ask a follow up question that was not asked originally:

 

Reporter - Mike_Liu | @KrismeisterSG - Why did you also proceed to back up your vehicle in an attempt to flee when the reported party were pointing weapons towards you in close proximity. I quote from the rules: "if they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape". One clean shot though that window could have killed you, so why did you not act as so?

The party mentioned above will have 24 hours to respond with their reasoning for this actions as well.

 

Kind regards,
Emulsify & Xposed.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Emulsify

[KrismeisterSG]

@Emulsify

- Why did you also send that message in OOC chat which was seen as an insult?

As soon they started shooting at me, as shown in the video, I drove away and after typing /report 4 DM (you can check the logs if you want) and he hopped on his bike, drove next to me and typed in (/b enjoy the report /b fearrp) and I was like, what the fuck? are you telling me that I am the one breaching rules? and I just said fucking idiots? but it came on naturally triggered from what he told, I didn't mean to offend, obviously. Plus, as I already checked many and many times, saying idiot in /b is not considered as an OOC insult.

- Why were you reviewing the IC message board while from within a vehicle? Do you know that you are supposed to only review the board when you are standing next to it? 

I literally just joined the faction at Weazel back then, I did read that, as you see on the video, but I obviously didn't use those information ICly, (it was written after the welcome, for me to read the IC bulletin and I clicked on it). I didn't metagame if that's what you're trying to understand.

- Why did you also proceed to back up your vehicle in an attempt to flee when the reported party were pointing weapons towards you in close proximity. I quote from the rules: "if they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape". One clean shot though that window could have killed you, so why did you not act as so?
Because as under the Eclipse Roleplay rules, I was not under Fear RP, As the rules quote "• When you are in a car which engine is not stalled." Which it was not. And by that, I was allowed to back up and drive away to safety. I was not under Fear RP and should not have feared for my life as my car engine was on and thus, they had commited DM shooting towards me when I was having shots fired at me without being under Fear RP.

In the previous message where you listed that the other two players shot at me when I was not under the fear rp rules, "ID 138 - Arman_Vieri | @final995 - Why did you proceed to shoot at the reporting parties vehicle while they were not under the Fear roleplay rules?... ID 145 - Helsinki_Serb | @Berlin - Why did you also proceed to shoot at the reporting parties vehicle while they were not under the Fear roleplay rules?" but now in your new response it seems as though you're saying I am under Fear RP? I find this rather confusing and believe that it should be one or the other, not both parties in the wrong over Fear RP?

Edited October 30, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[XposeD]

Hello, Just to clarify there was a small mix up in communications between me and Emulsify and the original questions regarding the DM and not being placed under fear RP should be ignored. We will be concluding this report in the near future. 

ID 145 and ID 138 are no longer needed to explain their actions. Thankyou.

Thanks for all your responses.

Kind Regards
XposeD

[KrismeisterSG]

Replying linking this report, to add a plus. It's basically the same, got shot from the same distance, the driver hopped in the car with an engine on and started driving away and they, probably the owners I suppose, started opening fire at him (getting shot at as well, in this instance getting hit through the lowered window in the head.) The reported party got in fact punished for DM.

'' It was decided that the player did not have sufficient reason to fire on the reporter, as the reporter was not under FearRP''.

I received demands from him while him still sitting on his bike without even aiming at me but even if that was not the case, I repeat again, I was not under FearRP since I was in a car which engine was not stalled or turned off and by consequence his demands had no impact on my character life as the actual server rules state.

Edited October 30, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[Berlin]

I dont really understand why you mentioned this report link, because its completely different scenario!

We pointed 2 weapons from very close range at you, gave you more than 10 seconds to comply.

Your vehicle was not moving, and you decided to drive away instdead of fearing for your life when 2 guns are pointed at you from close range!

would you react like this in IRL aswell? i don't think so

[KrismeisterSG]

Maybe is not clear but I'll try to explain you again. I'm not on a bike, I'm in a car which is completely different. The rules state that I can even be sitting in my car having someone pointing weapons at me and me having my engine on at all times, I don't have to fear for my life, at all. There are tons of reports and moderators and admins know that there is a loophole in this type of rule and that you can't open fire at all on a car which engine is on because then you'd be breaching DM rules. There a lot of other reports of course but most of them were involving bikes, this is the only one I managed to find where it involves a vehicle which was backing up like I did and getting shot at.

Comparing this scenario to IRL doesn't matter really, if we follow the server rules. If I wanted I could've even run you over and flee the scene but I didn't because then you wouldn't have been under DM breaching.

A lot of other players know this as well, I've seen so many times gang members aiming at a car which engine was on and giving demands (with a player inside obviously) but not opening fire even if he started fleeing right after because they know they'd be breaching the DM rule.

I was not under FearRP.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[KrismeisterSG]

Ok, I found the perfect report. Even better. It was an old report of mine. Please, take a look at this and what Archaeah said, the scenario it's identical, he even had more than 5 people aiming at him, plus involving HEAVY WEAPONRY. Still, no FearRP.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[Berlin]

What Archaeah said : 

"Due to how close the demands were being given to the animation being triggered to enter the car, I find them to have not broken fear RP in this instance."

 

that report is rejected because the demands and them getting in the car were at the same time.

if you take a look at my video, In our situation it was not even close, you tried to drive away after 10 seconds from our demands.

SO AGAIN, different scenarios...

[KrismeisterSG]

In fact he was not under FearRP because he was in his vehicle, his engine was on, just like mine, and he was full aware of the demands even while sitting in his car for 3 seconds with his engine on. Simple as that. It's the same scenario. I was aware of the demands once I alt tabbed back, same time as the report I linked. Your demands don't matter even if you're close to the vehicle. If engine is on there is no FearRP. You can clearly see it from my POV, I didn't even manage to hear your VOIP because probably too low due to your microphone, I would've alt tabbed a lot earlier.

Again, that's not FearRP, take the report as an example because it is literally the same thing. Even better, in the report i linked the guy is safe from FearRP because he stepped into his vehicle with his engine on even though 10 people were aiming at him, even if the demands were given while he was opening his car door, the demands got told again once he was sitting in his vehicle, I even said the demands myself and he decided to ignore them and just run me over because he was fully aware that he was not under fearRP while sitting in his car.

It's not that hard to understand.

Archaeah said that because I reported him thinking that he was not in his vehicle as well, since he was stepping in, and even there he was safe because the demands were given while stepping in, then the demands got told again, ''out of the car'' with a shotgun aimed at half a meter and still he didn't receive FearRP, still sitting in his car with the engine on.

Edited October 31, 2019 by KrismeisterSG

[XposeD]

Thank you again for making this report.

 

I would first like to thank everyone who responded with their side of the story and for explaining their actions which can be seen in the provided evidence. Myself and Xposed, after extensively reviewing the provided evidence and taking into account the responses, have come to a conclusion:

Player Mike_Liu will receive a warning for being AFK in public.

Player Mike_Liu and player Helsinki_Serb will receive a verbal warning for OOC insults.

There will also be NO punishment for Fear Roleplay or Deathmatching.

Firstly, i am going to address the reasoning behind the warning for Mike_Liu and what lead us to this conclusion. In the provided evidence, it was seen that they were tabbed out reading an IC message board. You were seen to not be reacting to any roleplay attempts by either of the reported parties. This classes you as AFK in public. Being AFK can deplete the experience for others hence the rule against it. I would like to say that this is not a punishment, just a warning. It will also act as a reminder about going AFK in public and to show other staff members, if confronted in the future with a similar situation, that you have been spoken too before. This will show on your admin logs.

 

Secondly i am going to address the reasoning behind the two verbal warnings for OOC insults. Out of character insults are not tolerated within Eclipse RP so we treat them harshly. What was presented to us in the evidence were two minor insults. Being minor still does not mean that it won’t be punished in some way. In the future please try to refrain from saying these things towards other members of the community, even if they said something to you. It is always better to be the bigger person in these types of situations. I would also like to mention that this is not a punishment, it is simply just a reminder of the rules pertaining to this. This will also not be added to your admin logs.

 

Finally, after consulting higher ranking staff members, i am going to address the lack of punishment for Fear Roleplay and Deathmatching and the reasoning behind it. In the provided evidence it can be seen that the reporting party was parked in the road and was not responding to any roleplay. The reported party were able to get up to the window of the vehicle and aim a weapon, at close range, at the individual in the vehicle. One clean shot would have easily killed the reporting party. We are also not going to be issuing the reporting party a punishment for Fear Roleplay due to the circumstances at which this occurred.

 

This report is partially accepted and archived.

Kind regards,

@Emulsify & Xposed.

Locked & Archived.