jason Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Player(s) being reported: Arnold_Williams (ID 118) Date of interaction reported: 21/OCT/2019 Unix time stamp from HUD: 1571626255 Your characters name: Gordon_Napler Other player(s) involved: Jay_Gamble (ID 19) @JayGamble | Rhea_Moraine (ID 32) @Wolokai | Eric_Rahmel (ID 199) @37hh Specific rule(s) broken: 14. Deathmatch (DM) Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player or their property without a proper roleplay reason. Examples of valid reasons to attack another player: • If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property. • If they report you to the police for a serious crime. • If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules. A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands. A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands. If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s). Vehicles cannot be used to attack another player more than once including a failed attempt. Attacking another player with no engagement in roleplay is not allowed. Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of: Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.) Someone is attempting to take your life. Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen. You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason. How did the player break the rule(s)? Cop joins into a pursuit and starts ramming two people off bikes (ID 19 and ID 32). In the footage it may look like desync, however he then tried to justify it when confronted in PMs. Evidence of rule breach: https://streamable.com/utnbr - My perspective. https://streamable.com/vjo2l - Eric_Rahmel(ID 199)'s perspective. Edited October 21, 2019 by CBullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyyy Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 My character was involved, Max_Rhoades. The timeline of events from my perspective was as follows. We were previously in a shootout with police at the RT68 gas station and the only two cops that survived that were Mary Dinkley and Phillipe Sanchez. There was probably a 1-2 minute gap between the shootout and the pursuit against the unmarked cruiser starts, at this time no other cruisers arrive. We started to follow them both, who were driving in unmarked cruiser, toward yellowjack when we spotted another cruiser (Arnold Williams) that joined the pursuit to assist Sanchez and Dinkley. The pursuit turned left from yellow jack toward sandy shores, then the unmarked cruiser slows down and we start to as well. At that moment Arnold_Williams comes slamming into of of us and spins out. After he gets turned around he proceeds to drive forward and ram another person off their bike. After ramming the second person he starts to speed off where it appears his cruiser was stalled due to gunshots. Arnold then proceeds to step out and try to fight us off roughly 6-8 to 1. Which in my opinion is borderline fear rp. Arnold_Williams pm'd jay gamble stating multiple things: -"cause you guys killed cops and were against my LT" -"I saw two officers down and you guys aim weapons at my and you guys started ramming my LT" -"i can prove some on Aim a weapon at me, not responding officers and a lot of blue guys" In my opinion and of another staff member I talked to, I think this is VDM but did not want to take the report as I was apart of the scenario. Even if he saw someone aim a weapon or ram cars, the two people that were rammed were not attempted to ram anyone or could have aimed weapons as they were on bikes, he also makes two attempts it seems per the evidence, also per his pm's he never positively identified the people that were "aiming and ramming". Now, if he has proof of his innocence then we are good to go. A simple log search of his chat will show the pm's are true and not falsified, I also have the ss. This is all I will be replying with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 https://streamable.com/vuva1 My PoV, the first bike that was hit. This was stemmed off a shoot out that happened several minutes earlier. The officer slamming me off my bike only showed up to the scene after we were pursuing Sanchez. When I PM'd him about it, he had claimed to see myself and the other person he hit aiming weapons at his "LT".. someone who I had never aimed a firearm at a single time in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 PLAYER REPORT PENDING RESPONSES Thank you for your patience while this report is under review. After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, I have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. The following players will be required to provide their side of the story from this situation within the next twenty-four (24) hours: [Arnold_Williams [ID #118]] - [Notified IG] - Do you have any video evidence from this incident? Why did you run over Jay_Gamble in this incident, and why did you double back to run over a second player? Also, explain your through process behind jumping out of your stalled vehicle and attempting to shoot your way out of that situation. Do you feel you showed a genuine value for your life there? If the players above fail to respond to this report within the next twenty-four (24) hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. Regards, Brawnkoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Responding, give me some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Hi, Arnold Williams here. When i was patrolling a Panic Alarm came in to the attention. I responded to that Panic Alarm, at the time of the arrival I saw a lone cruiser with death officers around it, as soon I saw that and multiple people I leave the scene unknowing what was happening. As I was leaving a guy I don't know who aim a weapon against me (again as i was leaving) knowing that my life was at risk i continue to leave the place. At this point I knew that that group were killing cops. I turned to high alert. Then I post my self away from the scene waiting for back ups or other officers. At that time I saw the same group of people chasing my LT, I knew they were about to kill him, so I adopt a defensive position trying to keep back the group from my LT. I tried to avoid multiple vehicles trying to get to the LT sadly some of them were in bikes a bad vehicle for a pursuit. When I hit some one trying to avoid it, my cruiser turned around. So again I try to avoid the scene by leaving the group to try again going to my LT. But at this time the individuals open Fire on me stalling my vehicle, I had no other choice to defend my self, Sadly it went bad for me. As they post this event they lack of providing with the complete situation of what happened and just posted the part were I defend my self and my fellow partners. Video Prof: Give it some time, Video is uploading. Edited October 22, 2019 by Pertinax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 At no point did you tell me this was an accident, in fact you spent about 5 or so minutes telling me how it was justified and that you have 10 years of RP experience. Now that the report is present, I'd at least like you to show the same disregard you did when you spoke to me personally. The chat logs will confirm this between myself and the person being reported. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, JayGamble said: At no point did you tell me this was an accident, in fact you spent about 5 or so minutes telling me how it was justified and that you have 10 years of RP experience. Now that the report is present, I'd at least like you to show the same disregard you did when you spoke to me personally. The chat logs will confirm this between myself and the person being reported. Even with that point of view, I have at this point a reason to defend my self and my partners since I already saw the violence of the group by me witnesses two death officer and the group engaging against my partners. DM classifies as trying to harm or kill some one with out a valid role play reason. Here I have the complete reason why I defend my self and my partners. And I didn't turn around on purpose, the bike that I hit as show in the video made me turn and as I turn I tried to leave the scene but my vehicle was stalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) You never saw me threaten or kill anyone (your own video proves this). If you were trying to run away, you could have went forward through the scene instead of turning around and hitting another person off their bike. You quite literally turn into me, in multiple videos - what was your RP reason to slam me off my bike? You weren't trying to avoid anyone, and you were stalled due to slamming both of us off our bike, un-ironically. After that, you proceed to get out of your vehicle and draw on.. how many of us? vs yourself, and two other officers who aren't in a posture to actually defend you, but themselves are trying to flee away. Edited October 22, 2019 by JayGamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, JayGamble said: You never saw me threaten or kill anyone. If you were trying to run away, you could have went forward through the scene instead of turning around and hitting another person off your bike. You quite literally turn into me, in multiple videos - what was your RP reason to slam me off my bike? You weren't trying to avoid anyone, and you were stalled due to slamming both of us off our bike, un-ironically. After that, you proceed to get out of your vehicle and draw on.. how many of us? vs yourself, and two other officers who aren't in a posture to actually defend you, but themselves are trying to flee away. As I prof in the first video, I see officers down and as I was leaving a gun Aimed a me, At no point I say that you were the one aiming a weapon at me. I said some one aim a weapon at me. Again the first video that I posted prof that I have a valid reason to defend my self and my partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, JayGamble said: You never saw me threaten or kill anyone. If you were trying to run away, you could have went forward through the scene instead of turning around and hitting another person off your bike. You quite literally turn into me, in multiple videos - what was your RP reason to slam me off my bike? You weren't trying to avoid anyone, and you were stalled due to slamming both of us off our bike, un-ironically. After that, you proceed to get out of your vehicle and draw on.. how many of us? vs yourself, and two other officers who aren't in a posture to actually defend you, but themselves are trying to flee away. And as I say, I didn't turn around on purpose the bike that I hit force me on a spin, and I wasn't there to stay, I just try to get away. If you say my reason was to DM as soon as I turn around I would try to turn around and then do a DM, but I didn't, I keep going forward trying to escape, but the group open fire on me stalling my vehicle. Edited October 22, 2019 by Pertinax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 I'd also like to add that at no point does this man use his IC hotkey to speak on tac. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Now you are just trying to win this at any cost. My talk key in game is N and my talk key on TAC is the middle mouse Button, I always try to Press both when I'm on a TAC situation But with the adrenaline rushing like that some time I do not press both of the keys. The reason for this is when I'm chilling talking Out of Game things with fellow faction members I'm not going talk OOC thing In Game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Pertinax said: Now you are just trying to win this at any cost. My talk key in game is N and my talk key on TAC is the middle mouse Button, I always try to Press both when I'm on a TAC situation But with the adrenaline rushing like that some time I do not press both of the keys. The reason for this is when I'm chilling talking Out of Game things with fellow faction members I'm not going talk OOC thing In Game. Na, I'm pointing out someone rule breaking. OOC is not about winning/losing to me, very strange you'd even bring that up as I rarely report. Perhaps you should feel responsible for conducting yourself as we are ALL subject to, instead of breaking multiple rules in a singular small scenario. Edited October 22, 2019 by JayGamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Well, I got my prof that backs me up in my decisions that I'm not braking any rules that are throw against me in this report.. Now is up to the Report handler to take his answer. Not going to fight any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Also in my second video there's a Super Car (Classic) Ramming the LT in disregard on RP rules that say that you should value your vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 @Pertinax - Before I check the logs for context, I'd like you to tell me if your intentions regarding running over the two individuals in the video. Were they ran over because you saw them attack police, or were they run over due to desync? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) To be completely honest, It's 50/50 I was trying to avoid them but at the same time I knew that bikes were vulnerable So I did engage them since they were about to kill us. Again I didn't broke any rules since I have the prove that they actually point a gun at me and also they already killed cops. I can't even count how many times a player wanted to ran me over on my mary unit. Also at the time I was with an adrenaline rush IC and OOC where It gets me every time I get kill. And more that my cruiser got 2 shots and got stalled so quickly. So here I'm been very honest. Edited October 23, 2019 by Pertinax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Pertinax said: To be completely honest, It's 50/50 I was trying to avoid them but at the same time I knew that bikes were vulnerable So I did engage them since they were about to kill us. Again I didn't broke any rules since I have the prove that they actually point a gun at me and also they already killed cops. I can't even count how many times a player wanted to ran me over on my mary unit. Also at the time I was with an adrenaline rush IC and OOC where It gets me every time I get kill. And more that my cruiser got 2 shots and got stalled so quickly. So here I'm been very honest. I don't see how you can intentionally, but not intentionally, ram people off a bike. Can you explain this please. Also, please define your definition of "engage". You were engaging them how? By ramming them, by driving through them, by shooting at them? At what point would you consider yourself engaging in the above scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) As engage them was to try to stop them by placing my cruiser at front and try to perform something like a traffic brake so I could split them apart or stop the pursue of PD members. and as your fist question would be I wanted to, but didn't commit to it. Edited October 24, 2019 by Pertinax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilky Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Since I was directly involved, I'd like to just give a little context and say that I was evading - fleeing for my life as I had just witnessed these people murder multiple cops and directly threaten me - Arnold was responding to my code 1 call. At no point did myself or Arnold engage with them once we were evading. The blue Cheetah rammed me and myself and Arnold responded to that to allow me to continue fleeing. Regarding the bike hits, they are clearly desync and you can even see Arnold attempting to avoid hitting them by turning away from them. The first bike made his car spin thus having to continue to flee in another directing which cause another desync hit due to the close pursuit of the bikes. When he got shot at (rightfully for ICly hitting the bikes) his car stalled and shots continued, he had no other choice than to pull his gun. Edited October 24, 2019 by MrSilky additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MrSilky said: Regarding the bike hits, they are clearly desync and you can even see Arnold attempting to avoid hitting them by turning away from them. The first bike made his car spin thus having to continue to flee in another directing which cause another desync hit due to the close pursuit of the bikes. This is just not true, and I'm not entirely sure what video you watched as no one impeded his pursuit line, he actively drove off road to be directly behind my bike. He could have maintained directly behind you, all the way to Sandy MD, in which we would have been forced to call off our initial pursuit. I've also included a gif showing him consciously driving off road, positioning himself in between two bikes, when he had zero reason not to maintain his lane. Edited October 24, 2019 by JayGamble 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilky Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, JayGamble said: This is just not true, and I'm not entirely sure what video you watched as no one impeded his pursuit line, he actively drove off road to be directly behind my bike. He could have maintained directly behind you, all the way to Sandy MD, in which we would have been forced to call off our initial pursuit. I've also included a gif showing him consciously driving off road, positioning himself in between two bikes, when he had zero reason not to maintain his lane. That’s completely IC. His reasoning for going off road and not following the pursuit line is simply an IC question. As for the OOC rulebreaks, he didn’t attempt to hit any of you off your bikes even though by the rule book he has valid reason to do so. You see him actively steering away from colliding with the bikes. I won’t respond any further, this report will be concluded from an unbiased perspective by @Brawnkoh and I hope he takes in to consideration the RP situation and see that there was no malicious intent whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 PLAYER REPORT ACCEPTED Thank you for your patience while this report was under review. After reviewing this report and evidence attached to it, I've decided to accept this report and issue the punishments to the following players: [Arnold_Williams [ID #118]] - [MG] - Not using in-game communication when speaking on TS. I considered a lot of circumstances from this report. First being the original video. In the original video, the hits look intentional. Also the conversation evidence leads me to believe it was intentional. However, in the reported's video, it either looks like desync or blind luck. While I'm not handing out any DM punishments I want to be clear on my stance on this. You ran into a group of guys with heavies, ran one over (either by purpose or by accident) looped back around, and ran another over. The first hit on Jay_Gamble I could understand happening in this instance. But I simply don't see the reason to turn back around after this and continue to hit another one. Even if the first one was Desync, why turn right back into the crowd? I still think this report could go either way. I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume there's a minor language barrier because being 50/50 about trying to hit someone still doesn't make any sense to me. Either you tried, or you didn't try. There is no 50/50. Next, you jump out of your car with a pistol in your hand and try to Rambo your way out of the situation against a ton of armed guys with heavy weapons. I don't see the logic in this. I realize you were stalled so you got out, but I don't think someone who has a value for their life would do this in the circumstance above. While I don't believe it's a rulebreak as they shot at your vehicle to stall it, I also don't think this was a realistic action. You had zero chance ever winning that interaction, and it was a death sentence. Lastly, I understand how in the heat of the moment you may forget to speak IG, but it's not acceptable to not do so. Even in a scenario where people around you wouldn't be able to hear you, they will at least be able to see you use your radio. Please do what you need to do to make sure this does not continue to happen. If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file a refund request following the refund request guidelines and format. Regards, Brawnkoh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
