Criminal Update

[KCAJ]

drop some ideas 

Edited October 27, 2019 by KCAJ
Edit

[Fuz]

nerf zetas

[vblury]

I feel like putting restrictions on gangs like controls powers because some over rule to hard and if they want to be a big ass gang like the zetas then they shouldn’t be able to alliance with half the other gangs

[KCAJ]

51 minutes ago, Fuz said:

nerf zetas

52 minutes ago, Fuz said:

nerf zetas

[Mopop]

I thought the territory idea was cool. If you've played black dessert online you fought other guilds for the territory and then you'd collect funds from it every week till you lost it. It could be a way to add to the treasury of a gang and possibly work on their territory adding labs, chopshops, etc.

Also once a gang goes official maybe they can pick specialization too. Like one gang would be the gang you sold manufactured drugs to, one is the gun runners, one have illegal mods, one can be the people who run and deploy chop shops too.

I was thinking about all the gang run legal stores too, how the license would have to be held by someone legal, so you could even have people who are like semi-criminals. I remember a scene from the wire where they found out the guy who held their club license was messing with illegal shit and well it didn't turn out well for him...

Just ideas I've had.

Edited October 7, 2019 by CarlTTT

[vblury]

1 minute ago, CarlTTT said:

I thought the territory idea was cool. If you've played black dessert online you fought other guilds for the territory and then you'd collect. It could be a way to add to the treasury of a gang and keep their area on lock down.

Also once a gang goes official maybe they can pick specialization too. Like one gang would be the gang you sold manufactured drugs to, one is the gun runners, one have illegal mods, one can be the people who run and deploy chop shops too.

I was thinking about all the gang run legal stores too, how the license would have to be held by someone legal, so you could even have people who are like semi-criminals. I remember a scene from the wire where they found out the guy who held their club license was messing with illegal shit and well it didn't turn out well for him...

Just ideas I've had.

Yeah right now all the gang run around doing the same exact shit almost every one of them

[alexalex303]

Trying to get the thread back onto the right track:

• A change to the DM rules that would allow players to engage people in vehicles;
• Allow official factions to build their own drug labs over time;
• Create a fake ID system where criminals can create a fake ID that would pass an MDC check but not a special check at Mission Row;
• Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour);
• Remove the exception in the DM rules for cops aiming firearms, at the end of the day it's a lethal weapon that's being pointed at you or an ally, it should carry weight and not be waved haphazardly because of OOC protections;
• Add secondary positive effects to drugs so that we may perhaps see them being sold to players for the effects rather than just NPCs.

These are perhaps not new ideas, but there are some things that I'd like to see implemented in a criminal themed patch.

Edited October 7, 2019 by alexalex303

[vblury]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

Trying to get the thread back onto the right track:

• A change to the DM rules that would allow players to engage people in vehicles;
• Allow official factions to build their own drug labs over time;
• Create a fake ID system where criminals can create a fake ID that would pass an MDC check but not a special check at Mission Row;
• Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour);
• Remove the exception in the DM rules for cops aiming firearms, at the end of the day it's a lethal weapon that's being pointed at you or an ally, it should carry weight and not be waved haphazardly because of OOC protections;
• Add secondary positive effects to drugs so that we may perhaps see them being sold to players for the effects rather than just NPCs.

These are perhaps not new ideas, but there are some things that I'd like to see implemented in a criminal themed patch.

Maybe a rule added for gang wars like not just if a gang doesn’t like the other but if something big happens like example when the Russians shot up the zetas if they both agree on the war and it is also agreed with a head administrator + that maybe they could have a change in dm rules for a certain amount of time between those two party’s 

[Cyrus Raven]

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

Trying to get the thread back onto the right track:

• A change to the DM rules that would allow players to engage people in vehicles;
• Allow official factions to build their own drug labs over time;
• Create a fake ID system where criminals can create a fake ID that would pass an MDC check but not a special check at Mission Row;
• Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour);
• Remove the exception in the DM rules for cops aiming firearms, at the end of the day it's a lethal weapon that's being pointed at you or an ally, it should carry weight and not be waved haphazardly because of OOC protections;
• Add secondary positive effects to drugs so that we may perhaps see them being sold to players for the effects rather than just NPCs.

These are perhaps not new ideas, but there are some things that I'd like to see implemented in a criminal themed patch.

#1: +1

#2: +1

#3: +1 In theory, but this has to be well thought out, it should be something that only skilled people who have spent time learning the trade would be able to do and it should be expensive to have. (Example: You could work towards being a master forger, but at the start your Fake ID's are low quality and have a % chance of being spotted as fake, the higher level you go, the harder it is to spot by cops and the longer it lasts.)

#4: Like the incentive idea, but not the example. There are cases where we have a ton of stuff to do with shootouts and such, making it unrealistic to expect us to put that on-hold just to go get some vehicles out. Having a way to get vehicles out easily or an incentive like commission would be nice though. 

#5: The protection given is to prevent cops from being harassed, given that they spend most of their days getting shot at or aiming their weapons at criminals, having 20+ people at any given day able to track you and kill you for it seems a bit aggressive, although I can see a roleplay reason to remove this rule. Wouldn't mind seeing more arguments from both sides about this. For now neutral.

#6: +1 I would probably be more extreme and say that the NPC should be removed all together, insuring that all drugs are sold to players and/or gangs and that every drug has a worthwhile effect to make it competitive. (One gives you slightly faster speed when running, one more accuracy, the other armor, etc.. Effects are small and can be stacked in exchange for often headaches or blurred vision.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Kyle White Raven

[RvGhost]

My current ideas are unofficial gang support and yet another turf idea

1: Add unofficial faction support to support rising or medium level gangs. This would include the ability to set diplomacy and maybe small arms smuggling for increased prices compared to official gangs. (Maybe better price points for larger gangs)

(Optional if turfs were also implemented)

The diplomacy tab would allow gangs to go to war with eachother which when mutually declared would change the DM rules in multiple ways allowing players to shoot clear rival gang members when they enter the designated turf area.

Treasury tab would include a drug tax section which would show any profits made from drug dropoffs (More info in turf section)

2: Using the above system you could allow these gangs to submit "Turf requests".

Turfs would be designated areas that these gangs usually own property or frequent.

If you own a turf that overlaps a drug dropoff point the gangs treasury would get 5% of all drug profits that are sold there. 

"Turf markers" would be placed in very hidden spots that would be hard to find unless someone showed you. These markers would have light information on the gang and visiting these markers would very lightly tint the map with the gangs borders using the gangs colors. This would also add a element on your UI that's very similar to the NCZ one when your in that gangs area.

 

Will edit post if I think of any other suggestions. Sorry for awful formatting using my phone.

[Mopop]

25 minutes ago, RvGhost said:

My current ideas are unofficial gang support and yet another turf idea

1: Add unofficial faction support to support rising or medium level gangs. This would include the ability to set diplomacy and maybe small arms smuggling for increased prices compared to official gangs. (Maybe better price points for larger gangs)

(Optional if turfs were also implemented)

The diplomacy tab would allow gangs to go to war with eachother which when mutually declared would change the DM rules in multiple ways allowing players to shoot clear rival gang members when they enter the designated turf area.

Treasury tab would include a drug tax section which would show any profits made from drug dropoffs (More info in turf section)

2: Using the above system you could allow these gangs to submit "Turf requests".

Turfs would be designated areas that these gangs usually own property or frequent.

If you own a turf that overlaps a drug dropoff point the gangs treasury would get 5% of all drug profits that are sold there. 

"Turf markers" would be placed in very hidden spots that would be hard to find unless someone showed you. These markers would have light information on the gang and visiting these markers would very lightly tint the map with the gangs borders using the gangs colors. This would also add a element on your UI that's very similar to the NCZ one when your in that gangs area.

 

Will edit post if I think of any other suggestions. Sorry for awful formatting using my phone.

Yeah I always thought a warring option would be cool so you could do KOS stuff. Like plan drive bys or executions of important figures to send a message. It would be intense because you would never know if you would get caught in the middle of it. You could be looking at the high end and next thing you know being caught in a cross fire from a gang war.

[gyrhnr]

Bring back the old 2017 F4 menu ,where EVERYONE can make their own group and add members

[Cyrus Raven]

25 minutes ago, gyrhnr said:

Bring back the old 2017 F4 menu ,where EVERYONE can make their own group and add members

I would probably +1 this just so groups can have a proper OOC chat like /f, but I wouldn't allow any group to have access to imports and turfs (if these are added), they would have to be approved.

[smutty]

14 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

 

• Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour);

Ok this could work but for every person that is caught with a ticket or warrant (at impound) the entire department gets a bonus of $20k. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by smutty
Added "at impound"

[Bala]

18 hours ago, Vezhi said:

I feel like putting restrictions on gangs like controls powers because some over rule to hard and if they want to be a big ass gang like the zetas then they shouldn’t be able to alliance with half the other gangs

I used to think that way but then is forcing someone to war with someone a practical solution? If the RP doesn't support it then it doesn't support it. You can't force Triads and Zetas to war with one another if there is no incentive and/or roleplay reason to do so.

What I think would lead to a better criminal ecosystem is if there was some kind of protection for the smaller factions, to be able to grow without the big factions shitting on them from a great height. There are some half decent small gangs out there right now but they only have the practical option of bending the knee right now. 

I think the distinction is between being official and unofficial. Once you are official, whatever happens to your faction happens. But I think if you are unofficial, official factions should maybe be held back a little on retribution.

Simple fact is, the more diverse and interesting the criminal faction scene, the better for everyone. Cops and Gangs alike.

17 hours ago, CarlTTT said:

I thought the territory idea was cool. If you've played black dessert online you fought other guilds for the territory and then you'd collect funds from it every week till you lost it. It could be a way to add to the treasury of a gang and possibly work on their territory adding labs, chopshops, etc.

Also once a gang goes official maybe they can pick specialization too. Like one gang would be the gang you sold manufactured drugs to, one is the gun runners, one have illegal mods, one can be the people who run and deploy chop shops too.

I was thinking about all the gang run legal stores too, how the license would have to be held by someone legal, so you could even have people who are like semi-criminals. I remember a scene from the wire where they found out the guy who held their club license was messing with illegal shit and well it didn't turn out well for him...

Just ideas I've had.

I'm not sure it's something that needs script support, I just think it's a combination of the faction management team and the faction leaders working towards some kind of plan. Ideally you don't one 2-3 official factions, you want 5-6. That gives people enough choice to join based on what they want to do. Right now, the main choices are Zeta or Triad, with Wanted in my view a little more specific in terms of the role-play they do. 

Yes you can make your own faction but long term, it's hard.

17 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

Trying to get the thread back onto the right track:

• A change to the DM rules that would allow players to engage people in vehicles;
• Allow official factions to build their own drug labs over time;
• Create a fake ID system where criminals can create a fake ID that would pass an MDC check but not a special check at Mission Row;
• Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour);
• Remove the exception in the DM rules for cops aiming firearms, at the end of the day it's a lethal weapon that's being pointed at you or an ally, it should carry weight and not be waved haphazardly because of OOC protections;
• Add secondary positive effects to drugs so that we may perhaps see them being sold to players for the effects rather than just NPCs.

These are perhaps not new ideas, but there are some things that I'd like to see implemented in a criminal themed patch.

1. I think in terms of the DM and Fear RP rules, they need to be a little more specific. "A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands." -- Well how long is enough time? Why can someone drive off if I have a gun to their head, just because their engine is on? What's faster, a bullet or a vehicle? Even if I don't hit you straight away, there's still 5-10 seconds where I could realistically hit you.

2. I think the stationary drug labs are a massive hindrance and it defeats the whole purpose of the drug making industry. I feel like having mobile drug labs being built by factions would be a much more interesting proposition for both criminal and law enforcement factions. Having to forget there is a drug lab there every time you go to one of them and destroy it hurts the immersion. I'm not Pablo Escobar, but the idea is to move around so people don't find things, not stay in the same six places.

3. Not a fan of the fake ID thing. It's like the masks, where it will just end up being used ridiculously. The problem with things like this is if they were used sparingly, then they'd be a good addition but they just wouldn't.

4. The impound lot is a secondary responsibility for the Police Department. We're on the server to catch criminals, not to act as parking lot attendants. We get there as and when we can. I'm not sure punishing everyone in the police department that's on duty is in any way reasonable.

I think perhaps a better solution is by allowing people to release their own vehicle if it is secure impounded (free) and also, allowing police to release vehicles from a point in the LSPD and LSSD stations, provided they do a /me informing the imaginery impound staff of the unimpound. That's something that reasonably any cop could do, even one heading off shift. Takes like 30 seconds and also means that LSPD would be a one stop shop for people needing police, rather than having to split people between locations.

5. The reason why there is a exception for cops is that there is a clear distinction in objectives. If a cop is aiming at you, it's a preventive measure. Your life is threatened based on your own actions and what YOU do next. Where as if it's non-law enforcement then all bets are off, welcome to the jungle. 

I tell you what, I'd support changing that the day that criminals in the city take having a gun aimed at them by a cop seriously, how about that? The day we don't have to taze someone six times before they give up. The day they don't run in their vehicles because Fear RP rules say they can. If that changes then we'll talk.

6. Drugs are a difficult one because people want the benefits of the high, but they don't want the effects of the addiction or the come down. Any added positive effects should come with some negatives to balance it out.

17 hours ago, Vezhi said:

Maybe a rule added for gang wars like not just if a gang doesn’t like the other but if something big happens like example when the Russians shot up the zetas if they both agree on the war and it is also agreed with a head administrator + that maybe they could have a change in dm rules for a certain amount of time between those two party’s 

I mean it's hard to balance a 45 person faction against a 10 person faction unless you were doing something where you limited the amount of people that could be involved like 10v10 or something. But what is the point in a 'gang war' if there is nothing really to gain from it? You'd just be fighting for the sake of it.

 

4 hours ago, RvGhost said:

My current ideas are unofficial gang support and yet another turf idea

1: Add unofficial faction support to support rising or medium level gangs. This would include the ability to set diplomacy and maybe small arms smuggling for increased prices compared to official gangs. (Maybe better price points for larger gangs)

(Optional if turfs were also implemented)

The diplomacy tab would allow gangs to go to war with eachother which when mutually declared would change the DM rules in multiple ways allowing players to shoot clear rival gang members when they enter the designated turf area.

Treasury tab would include a drug tax section which would show any profits made from drug dropoffs (More info in turf section)

2: Using the above system you could allow these gangs to submit "Turf requests".

Turfs would be designated areas that these gangs usually own property or frequent.

If you own a turf that overlaps a drug dropoff point the gangs treasury would get 5% of all drug profits that are sold there. 

"Turf markers" would be placed in very hidden spots that would be hard to find unless someone showed you. These markers would have light information on the gang and visiting these markers would very lightly tint the map with the gangs borders using the gangs colors. This would also add a element on your UI that's very similar to the NCZ one when your in that gangs area.

Will edit post if I think of any other suggestions. Sorry for awful formatting using my phone.

I'm all for some kind of additional support for unofficial factions but I'm not really sure what you could give them that would lessen what being an official faction gets. They shouldn't have a faction chat, arms smuggling.. I mean you end up saturating the market and then no one buys guns from other factions if you do that.

I mean I suppose I quite like the idea of being able to declare war on other factions and the DM rules being changed to reflect that, but I think only for a set period of time so it doesn't become a DM server.

=================================

[aXoL]

let the official gangs to import Armor.

there is a HUGE disadvantage between cops and criminals in the fights in my opinion.Letting them import armor with a reasonable price will help the rp in my opinion and its actually realistic too.

[Bala]

I'd also like to add a couple suggestions.

Prison Sentence Cap
I thought the prison cap was ridiculous when I first got into PD, but in all honesty, I feel like removing it has impacted PD negatively in the sense that there isn't so many calls anymore. Although criminals being a little more careful about what they do is a good thing in a roleplay sense, that combined with people going back to the school, there are periods where there aren't a lot of calls and it's.. well.. boring.

I don't want to go back to two hours, but I think there should be a conditional cap. Unless you are going to prison for the most serious felonies, I think the prison time should be capped at 180 minutes (3 hours). If they have the most serious felonies pending then fair enough, keep the unlimited time. It still gives some weight to the big crimes but also, it doesn't punish the criminal too heavily for doing what they are in the server to do. IB in PD can still build their cases and make the arrests, but for the armed robberies, the grand theft autos etc.. you do kind of want that kind of crime to happen because it's not directly destructive and as PD it gives us something to chase and roleplay around. 

- - - -

Jail / Prison Limit
In PD, if you are being arrested and getting 45+ minutes, it's prison. Under 45 is jail. I'd like to see that reduced to 30 minutes so we can get some more activity into the prison. Department of Corrections are back on their feet with the new Warden and their new team and I'd like to see them get a little more activity. The roleplay opportunities in those jail cells at LSPD and LSSD are very little, the prison is a lot better equipped for that stuff.

- - - -

Disposing of Bodies
The body system in theory is a good system, that adds to the RP element of situations. But when you have more than a couple bodies for example, it becomes a fucking chore to deal with. I'd like to see criminals be able to dispose of bodies in various different ways.

For example..

The Ocean - Use the same parameters for fishing and allow people to throw bodies in the ocean to get rid of them.
Foundry - Similiar thought process, but using extreme heat to get rid of the body.
Burning - Use either a jerry can or a campfire to light a body on fire and speed up the rate of decay of the body.
Acid - Using some of the Sulfuric Acid that you can get from drug labs could speed up the rate of decay for the bodies.
Burying - I had made a suggestion about this a while back but allow people to bury bodies in certain areas of the map.

I've seen a few of @CallumMontie 's Triads screenshots where they've disposed of bodies in RPs and I think it would add to criminal RP if you could have varied ways to get rid of evidence like that.

I'd also like to see if a person has their license on them, that it show up on their body unless it's taken from them so it helps with identifying who was who.

[Bala]

10 minutes ago, aXoL said:

let the official gangs to import Armor.

there is a HUGE disadvantage between cops and criminals in the fights in my opinion.Letting them import armor with a reasonable price will help the rp in my opinion and its actually realistic too.

Good, keep it that way. There is a huge disadvantage between cops and criminals in the fights because we're trying to arrest people and preserve other people's lives and the criminals are trying to kill us. 

[thesilentwrath]

+1 We need more crim stuff asap, makes no sense legal jobs earn you more money then criminal work, on top of the fact that there is no risk for legal jobs.

[Asiantator]

5 minutes ago, thesilentwrath said:

+1 We need more crim stuff asap, makes no sense legal jobs earn you more money then criminal work, on top of the fact that there is no risk for legal jobs.

This is a major -1 for me and I am sure quite a few other people. The risk versus reward for a criminal is just that, a risk. You should not be building a criminal just because you want to make a ton of money. Thats not what it is for. Going around robbing pennies and gps from people should be just that, minimal risk, minimal reward. Importing and selling guns? Much higher risk, much higher reward. If Illegal jobs paid more everyone would be a criminal and we go back to Cops VS Robbers. If thats what you want? Find another server. Yes legal jobs make decent money. Its not amazing cash (I don't know why people think legal workers make buttloads of money). I've worked a legal job for 2 months(IRL months). Putting in an average of about 21 hours. I just barely hit my first million and I have literally saved every penny I have made. I did NOT come on this server to grind money. My characters backstory is not that I am the son of a Nigerian King, I rp as a normal, middle class guy who wants to just live and make friends. If you came on this server to be rich? Find another server. This server and the way it is currently set up is an attempt to ensure equal RP among the community, Criminals, Civilians, and Police. Yes sometimes it is unfair, yes I get it. But move on. 

Last night the Police couldn't make an arrest on 1 person because they were surrounded by 45+ Gang members, all sporting heavies. Police are outnumbered 4-1 in this instance and only some of them carry Shotguns, SMGs, or Carbines. So heavily outgunned as well. Did any of them come on the complain about how unfair that was? No, they moved on and went right back to patrol.

 

TL;DR

Server will never be perfectly balanced. But its close. All 3 areas has their pros and cons, pick your side carefully and don't let it hamper your RP. You're here to live a life, not grind for cash.

[JayGamble]

19 hours ago, Vezhi said:

I feel like putting restrictions on gangs like controls powers because some over rule to hard and if they want to be a big ass gang like the zetas then they shouldn’t be able to alliance with half the other gangs

Zetas have one other ally, a singular gang is in an alliance with us. Why is this so hard for people to understand? 

[Bala]

13 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

Zetas have one other ally, a singular gang is in an alliance with us. Why is this so hard for people to understand? 

Amiggggoooo

[Cyrus Raven]

35 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

Zetas have one other ally, a singular gang is in an alliance with us. Why is this so hard for people to understand? 

Just thought I would mention, the reason why people think you have an alliance with half the other gangs is because you guys are allied with the second largest gang on the server. Technically they are incorrect, you are not allied with every other gang, but having the two biggest gangs be allied rubs some people the wrong way.

Although if there is RP to support the alliance it seems reasonable IMO.

[aXoL]

59 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Good, keep it that way. There is a huge disadvantage between cops and criminals in the fights because we're trying to arrest people and preserve other people's lives and the criminals are trying to kill us. 

 

Why are you crying?! Having armor with a reasonable price is unrealistic because you always want to win and put people in the jail for 10 hours? This is a place for sharing ideas and thoughts. There is another comment on the topic about this too which was said about making drugs effective and etc. If you want to disagree with it go find a better reason for it and stop being a cry baby cop. 

[Bala]

8 minutes ago, aXoL said:

Why are you crying?! Having armor with a reasonable price is unrealistic because you always want to win and put people in the jail for 10 hours? This is a place for sharing ideas and thoughts. There is another comment on the topic about this too which was said about making drugs effective and etc. If you want to disagree with it go find a better reason for it and stop being a cry baby cop. 

I'm crying because your shitty suggestion infected my tear ducts. Having armour with a reasonable price is unrealistic because outside of law enforcement and school shooters, how many fucking gang bangers do you see going around dressed like they're extras from Rainbow Six Siege? 

Not to mention that if you allow it to be imported, every single person that can use it WILL use it and they will use it all the time like masks.

I might be a cry baby cop, but least I have some common sense, ignoramus.