ID 103 [VDM]

[Zion Willard]

Player(s) being reported: ID 103
Date of interaction reported: 08/18/2019
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1566177756

Your characters name: Zion Willard

Other player(s) involved: Practically all of PD 

Specific rule(s) broken:
 

14. Deathmatch (DM)

• Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player or their property without a proper roleplay reason.

• Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:

• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.

• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.

• If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules.

• A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands.

• A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands.

• If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s).

• Vehicles cannot be used to attack another player more than once including a failed attempt.

• Attacking another player with no engagement in roleplay is not allowed.

• Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:

  1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)

  2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.

  3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen.

• You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason.

How did the player break the rule(s)?

I had zero commands besides "move" in their megaphone from another officer, to which i complied. The police caravan then drove through the bridge and proceeded to ram me stalling my vehicle and then arresting me. There's absolutely no reason for them to had done so, no demands nor reasoning behind ramming someone in this scenario. 

Evidence of rule breach:

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Zion Willard
Changed “replied” to “complied”

[SantinoDeferro]

Hello @Zion Willard!

Thank you for making the player report.

ID 103/Luke_Raven has 24 hours to respond with his side of the story.

The player will be notified in-game.

SantinoDeferro

[Luke Raven]

Hello I am ID103 (Luke Raven), this is the first report against me so I was suprised when I saw a notification of me getting reported when I started my game.

So, this was a situation where we got a backup call, if I recall correctly, and used Joint Tac with PD to defuse the situation.

As the entrance to this area is very narrow there were some bumps here and there while we, as LEOs, were trying to reach the inside of the lab. Now, I never ever had the intention of ramming this person, as you can see I just keep going forward after the "ram" trying to provide backup for my colleagues. If I had rammed him intentionally why would I not take advantage of him being stalled and not being able to flee in his car? But no, I was not trying to ram anyone. Unfortunately I do not have a clip of this instance, I have shadowplay running but only press alt+x to clip the last 10 minutes of an important situation where I would, perhaps, need recording to prove my innocence in case of a report, I did not clip this instance as I did not think what had happened could even be considered worthy of me getting reported and I was not informed by the player reporting that I would be involved in a forum report otherwise I would have clipped it of course. Furthermore, as seen in the provided footage there was a motorcycle on the bridge which was causing disturbances to people driving over the bridge. Not only did @Zion Willard go over the bike while reversing he was also occupying part of the dirt road which we were supposed to have used to get to the scene with the back of his Jester, the SUV is not a small car and in a situation like this one where we have to act fast and there are obstacles on the way, including the bike, a narrow entrance, several other police cruisers trying to enter the scene as well, and a Jester belonging to a person who had been told to move his vehicle out of the way so we could get through made the situation for a big car like the SUV even harder. From what I recall I drove over the bike and must've lost control of the SUV for a second, not being able to turn and avoid said ram, there is noise of a metal collision just before the SUV hit the Jester and as you can see I was the last vehicle entering from the bridge which means nobody hit me from the back and I did not hit anyone that was infront of me.

Furthermore we are all aware of the Dsync that exists in the server, it is natural to have some Dsync, even in the academy during PIT training we were taught to never actually hit a suspect's vehicle exactly where we see it to be, there is always an "invisible wall" and that is where we have to make the approach. The aftermath of said ram was exaggerated by the existance of Dsync in the server. What on my screen did not seem such a powerful ram, it seems to have been worse on your end.

This situation was clearly an accident that was further amplified by the existance of Dsync.

I understand the frustration from his part, but I think intentionality has to be taken into account here. It was not my intention to ram him, I did not go through the bridge knowing that I would break a rule, I was trying to provide backup and due to desync and the bike on the bridge and other factors named above I accidentally collided with him.

 

Thank you for your time, @SantinoDeferro .

[Zion Willard]

Hi @Luke Vader thanks for responding, I see a few things in your statement I would like to clarify & point out. Firstly 

1 hour ago, Luke Vader said:

If I had rammed him intentionally why would I not take advantage of him being stalled and not being able to flee in his car?

There were multiple cruisers around & behind you, and as seen in the video within 15 seconds of being rammed I am immediately held at gunpoint. I see no reason why once someones vehicle is disabled they would be a priority at that point. To your second point:

1 hour ago, Luke Vader said:

Unfortunately I do not have a clip of this instance, I have shadowplay running but only press alt+x to clip the last 10 minutes of an important situation where I would, perhaps, need recording to prove my innocence in case of a report, I did not clip this instance as I did not think what had happened could even be considered worthy of me getting reported and I was not informed by the player reporting that I would be involved in a forum report otherwise I would have clipped it of course.

I informed every officer on scene in /b multiple times that there would be a forum report posted from this. I did not have time to go through my video and determine the exact ID that rammed me as it happened extremely quickly and you immediately drove away, compounded with the fact that I was then held at gunpoint. I also PM'ed you in game once I was in prison (to which you didn't respond). To the next point: 

1 hour ago, Luke Vader said:

 From what I recall I drove over the bike and must've lost control of the SUV for a second, not being able to turn and avoid said ram, there is noise of a metal collision just before the SUV hit the Jester and as you can see I was the last vehicle entering from the bridge which means nobody hit me from the back and I did not hit anyone that was infront of me.

Attached you will see an image of where the bike was located: https://imgur.com/a/9zM2JjU . Given your angle of impact with me, I find it highly unlikely that you drove over the bike prior to ramming into my vehicle. After you drove through the bridge, there were also still 2-3 cruisers behind you that stayed at the bridge and blocked the entrance, so your last statement is simply factually incorrect. To the next one: 

1 hour ago, Luke Vader said:

Not only did @Zion Willard go over the bike while reversing he was also occupying part of the dirt road which we were supposed to have used to get to the scene with the back of his Jester, the SUV is not a small car and in a situation like this one where we have to act fast and there are obstacles on the way, including the bike, a narrow entrance, several other police cruisers trying to enter the scene as well, and a Jester belonging to a person who had been told to move his vehicle out of the way so we could get through made the situation for a big car like the SUV even harder. 

I had begun reversing at the same time the officer first made contact with the bike and decided to continue to avoid being rammed, which unfortunately still happened. In addition, I was not blocking the path whatsoever, I intentionally gave ample room for cruisers and grangers alike to be able to move through the path as seen here: https://imgur.com/a/fGFCAnk . I'd like to take this moment to reinforce the fact that I complied with the commands to move, and even if i hadn't that still wouldn't be grounds to ram my Jester under the DM rules listed above. To my favorite, your desync explanation: 

1 hour ago, Luke Vader said:

Furthermore we are all aware of the Dsync that exists in the server, it is natural to have some Dsync, even in the academy during PIT training we were taught to never actually hit a suspect's vehicle exactly where we see it to be, there is always an "invisible wall" and that is where we have to make the approach. The aftermath of said ram was exaggerated by the existance of Dsync in the server. What on my screen did not seem such a powerful ram, it seems to have been worse on your end.

This situation was clearly an accident that was further amplified by the existance of Dsync.

I understand the frustration from his part, but I think intentionality has to be taken into account here. It was not my intention to ram him, I did not go through the bridge knowing that I would break a rule, I was trying to provide backup and due to desync and the bike on the bridge and other factors named above I accidentally collided with him.

I am well aware of the presence of desync on the server, and I was unsure of whether it was desync that caused the initial collision until I reviewed the video footage. In the presence of desync, vehicles do not respond the way that yours did. It was actually a rather clean collision most likely due to the relatively low speeds in comparison to highway pursuits and your car responded as one should if the server loads it properly on both sides. You can see your vehicle lift off the ground, come back into contact, and you swerve to maintain your course down the road. I was still on the scene for 5-10 minutes after the fact, and if it wasn't an intended impact, you had multiple opportunities to assist in voiding the situation; however, that was not the case. If it was unintentional, you should have reiterated that fact at least once, however you did not. I'd like to take this moment to state that you were in range of my /b statements during this entire situation: https://imgur.com/a/WSdYOgu

Edited August 19, 2019 by Zion Willard
Changed time at which i had a gun pointed at me to be more accurate

[Luke Raven]

Quote

There were multiple cruisers around & behind you, and as seen in the video within 15 seconds of being rammed I am immediately held at gunpoint. I see no reason why once someones vehicle is disabled they would be a priority at that point. To your second point:

I am not sure you are aware but after I unintentionally rammed you I kept moving fowards and saw other suspects fleeing the scene, I eventually detained one of them and was doing my job as a LSSD deputy of patting him down, getting his ID and eventually putting him in the cruiser. I am only a trainee that started this job maybe a week ago if that much, doing the RP and all while being on scene, having multiple people talking at the same time about different parts of whats going on is osmething I still have to get used to. You want me to pay attention to radio calls, TS, do the RP on the detained suspect and respond to your /b which I did not even see it as I was busy performing an arrest? If you had PM'ed me when you were debating this with other officers I would have replied instantly of course and told you that it had not been on purpose.

Quote

I informed every officer on scene in /b multiple times that there would be a forum report posted from this. I did not have time to go through my video and determine the exact ID that rammed me as it happened extremely quickly and you immediately drove away, compounded with the fact that I was then held at gunpoint. I also PM'ed you in game once I was in prison (to which you didn't respond). To the next point:

You say you informed every officer on scene using /b when you clearly did not and could not have as people were running away and being chased at the time this was happening, im not sure you see the chaos around you. "You immediatly drove away" Correct, I drove away as I thought I hadnt rammed you that hard, it was never my intention to ram you or make you stall. If I meant to ram you I would have proceeded to do something about it and not just let you sit there for however long you stayed there looking around you. On your video you were rammed at 10 seconds and were at gunpoint at 30 seconds, there is a 20 second interval in which you are just talking on the radio to your friends.

You say you PM'ed me but I dont recall any PM's related to this case, I have had people PM'ing the wrong ID several times so maybe I assumed this was one of those and paid no attention to it, as once again in my eyes I had not done anything wrong.

Quote

Attached you will see an image of where the bike was located: https://imgur.com/a/9zM2JjU . Given your angle of impact with me, I find it highly unlikely that you drove over the bike prior to ramming into my vehicle. After you drove through the bridge, there were also still 2-3 cruisers behind you that stayed at the bridge and blocked the entrance, so your last statement is simply factually incorrect. To the next one: 

You say you find it unlikely yet it is still possible as your video doesnt show it, therefore this is just speculation. The cruisers that were behind me did not go past the bridge, this is what I meant when I said " as you can see I was the last vehicle entering from the bridge which means nobody hit me from the back and I did not hit anyone that was infront of me. "

Your own video proves this so I dont get your point. How does blocking the entrance have anything to do with the ramming situation?

Furthermore unoccupied vehicles often have different positions for different people so to you what may have looked one way for me it looked different. No other cars went past the bridge after mine therefore the only metal collision noise MUST have been from me hitting the bike.

Quote

I had begun reversing at the same time the officer first made contact with the bike and decided to continue to avoid being rammed, which unfortunately still happened. In addition, I was not blocking the path whatsoever, I intentionally gave ample room for cruisers and grangers alike to be able to move through the path as seen here: https://imgur.com/a/fGFCAnk . I'd like to take this moment to reinforce the fact that I complied with the commands to move, and even if i hadn't that still wouldn't be grounds to ram my Jester under the DM rules listed above. To my favorite, your desync explanation: 

You say you didnt block the path but you were doing exactly that when you were told to move, afterwards before you got rammed the back part of your car was in fact on the dirt road, in addition and as mentioned before in the midst of all the cruisers getting through a dirt road, bikes in the middle of the narrow bridge you cant expect them to go in a perfectly staright line can you? There are bound to be some bumps and people driving near the edge of the "dirt road" you can see here(https://imgur.com/a/h7P8ItR)  that my front left wheel is turned to the right as to make a right turn to avoid contact with you. There was no intention to DM anyone here.

Quote

I am well aware of the presence of desync on the server, and I was unsure of whether it was desync that caused the initial collision until I reviewed the video footage. In the presence of desync, vehicles do not respond the way that yours did. It was actually a rather clean collision most likely due to the relatively low speeds in comparison to highway pursuits and your car responded as one should if the server loads it properly on both sides. You can see your vehicle lift off the ground, come back into contact, and you swerve to maintain your course down the road. I was still on the scene for 5-10 minutes after the fact, and if it wasn't an intended impact, you had multiple opportunities to assist in voiding the situation; however, that was not the case. If it was unintentional, you should have reiterated that fact at least once, however you did not. I'd like to take this moment to state that you were in range of my /b statements during this entire situation: https://imgur.com/a/WSdYOgu

As proven by your own screenshot you can see me , ID103, patting someone down as Deputy Trainee this is something I am not used to doing yet. You could have said "ID 103 why did you ram me?" or "ID 103 I will report you for ramming into me" anything at all. I was not aware you were talking to me hence why I did not reply to your statements, if I had seen it I would have told you it was not intentional.

To me it just sounds like you're trying to get me with a VDM report because you're probably hurt about what happened to your friends. This just sounds like a conspiracy theory about me ramming into you when I clearly did not mean to do so and tried to avoid it.

 

Hope this gets solved as fast as possible so we can all move on.

[Zion Willard]

You claim it was desync which in all honesty I don’t believe, however you also made 0 attempt to inform me of so. There has been precedent set in multiple prior reports that you need to acknowledge the fact that you unintentionally rammed someone whether it be desync or not. This has been upheld time and time again, the fact that you are PD makes you no different. In my months in PD, I know in the same situation I would have at least had the courtesy to say /b sorry or /b he shouldnt be stalled i didnt mean to hit him. You completely ignored me for the 5-10 minutes on the scene and you admit yourself that you know you hit me. Your failure to do so resulted in massive loss to both my character and my time.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Zion Willard
grammar

[Luke Raven]

7 minutes ago, Zion Willard said:

You claim it was desync, however you made 0 attempt to inform me of so. There has been precedent set in multiple prior reports that you need to acknowledge the fact that you unintentionally rammed someone whether it be desync or not. This has been upheld time and time again, the fact that you are PD makes you no different. In my months in PD, I know in the same situation I would have at least had the courtesy to say /b sorry or /b he shouldnt be stalled i didnt mean to hit him. You completely ignored me for the 5-10 minutes on the scene and you admit yourself that you know you hit me. Your failure to do so resulted in massive loss to both my character and my time.

I apologize for making you lose your time and your character's time, I will keep this in mind if anything like this ever happens again.

As for ignoring you, it was not on purpose if I had seen it I would've replied. And also didn't realize you were stalled as I wasn't paying attention to your car unfortunately.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Luke Vader

[SantinoDeferro]

Hello and sorry for the delay!

REPORT DENIED

Player ID 103/Luke_Raven will not be punished. 

• Reason: After looking through the video and analyzing both points of views, I came to the conclusion that it was caused by the coincidence of different situations (probably even desync). Provided evidence do not show clear rule breaking and therefore I will not issue out any punishment.

If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file refund request following the refund request guidelines and format.

Regards,

Moderator SantinoDeferro

Report locked & archived.