ID 300, 182, 180, 99, 167, 27 (14.6 VDM & DM)

[dawpi]

Player(s) being reported: ID 300, ID 182, ID 180, ID 99, ID 167, ID 27.
Date of interaction reported: 18/08/2019
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1566161184

Your characters name: Jo Campbell

Other player(s) involved: Jay Bacon, Brianna Raven, Elise de la Croix, Marshall Rias, Dean Donovan, Lewis Sanchez and multiple others.

Specific rule(s) broken:
 

14. Deathmatch (DM)

• Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player or their property without a proper roleplay reason.

• Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:

• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.

• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.

• If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules.

• A player cannot kill their victim if the victim is in compliance with the demands.

• A player must allow their victim enough time to comply with the demands.

• If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand(s).

• Vehicles cannot be used to attack another player more than once including a failed attempt.

• Attacking another player with no engagement in roleplay is not allowed.

• Killing a player that has obeyed all orders and demands during a roleplay situation is allowed, with roleplay, only within 3 hours of:

  1.  Severe hostile or criminal action is taken against you, e.g. someone is robbing you at gunpoint. (Excluding police aiming a gun at you.)

  2.   Someone is attempting to take your life.

  3.   Someone is attempting to take the life of your close friend or ally, or if you have witnessed it happen.

• You must explain your reason to kill to the player IC and have OOC evidence proving your reason.

How did the player break the rule(s)?

A vehicle was stopped as it participated in a police pursuit and it was driven by ID 16 and ID 48 was a passenger. Both players had their masks on and as it was a part of the pursuit and chased the pursuit line, multiple officers stopped the vehicle after the vehicle that the officers chased was lost. The driver pulled over and both were asked to exit the vehicles to confirm their identities, however, none of them were getting arrested at the time.

Eventually, the Dark Red Schafter V12 and Dark Red Contender just drove into all of us injuring one (1) officer and multiples were just plowed away. Later, they turned around and came back ramming us again. The Contender did it three times and Schafter V12 did it twice. Like the rules states "cannot be used to attack another player more than once including failed attempt", however, this was more than one and it is Vehicular Death match (VDM). Later people exited their vehicles and started shooting.

After the officer was rammed - the shots were also fired from the Officers towards them.

We got rammed more than once when the rule says only once even if they fail.

 

Schafter V12 players were ID 300 and 182 passengers and ID 180 was driving the vehicle.

Contender players were ID 99 and 167 passengers and ID 27 was driving the vehicle.

Evidence of rule breach:

Jay Bacon's POV https://plays.tv/video/5d59ba3eae8e90eecb/vdm-dm

Jo Campbell's POV https://streamable.com/dhonl

Edited August 18, 2019 by dawpi

[Msato]

Hello there, Bruce_Wong here. Driver of the schafter. 

I made one single attempt driving into the group and this can be seen in my pov. The purpose of this attempt was to "provide protection for my friend" as it states in the rules this being allowed. I'd like to add prior to any engangement 5 separate demands were made to release the men whilst you were heavily out numbered and surrounded. 

The first officer to be hit on scene is in fact a member of staff, if he believed that this was wrong why was nothing raised at the time and the scenario paused. 

The fact is you had our men boxed on, on their knees with hands up and refused to follow demands and then complain about the result of doing so. Panic alarms were pushed prior the contenders inital ram, which insulates a call for backup during a hostile situation. 

The two members you had "detained" are higherup members in the faction - given the severity we responded with. Both of which who had heavy weapons on them and are known criminals. But you claim they were not about to be arrested, I find this hard to believe. You claim this to be a traffic stop, It seems a bit off that the standard traffic stop using 1/2 cruisers, turned into 4/5 cars fully boxing in the suspects, hauling them out the car at gunpoint and forcing them to identify. This is known as a 10-66 Felony Stop. 

In future, scenarios like these can be avoided had PD accepted a loss for once and follow the demands given instead of acting like an unstoppable force.

Id like to add this for context: if this happened to be a group or criminals and not pd having our members out and on their knees to "detain" them until they decide what will happen, the gang would be shot dead and both sides would have 0 issue with it. I understand PD are doing their job but they must expect consequences from acting towards criminal organisations in such manners. 

I don't have much else to add here apart from my pov:

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by CallumMontie

[TwistedWalker]

Removed.

[dhardie1]

I'd 300 here. First of all I don't really understand why I am being reported here and not just in the players involved section. 

All of the evidence is above posted by callum, I gave demands then was shot at so I fire back. 

The shafter clearly seen in the video only rams once so I don't know where you got two rams from anyway, when I get out we have a shootout and I go down. 

Can I also please add I don't appreciate the comment made above from Twistedwalker, especially if he's not involved in this. 

 

 

[Jbacon]

Hello, whilst I was on scene and as I was in rp with the gentlemen on their knees I didn't see your demands come in. Firstly what was your reason for the DM? there was zero arrests being made, if you watch my video I even say it. Meaning you had no reason to ram us with multiple vehicles. 

I would like to ask how you were aware of the radio toggle as you were clearly a fair distance away... Notice how I didn't rp seeing you talking on your radio? so why would you RP seeing my press my panic alarm, as it is right beside where I would press to talk on my radio? When I called the situation in over the radio there was no one in earshot, with windows open to hear me either.

I don't know why my sound doesn't come through but at 2:20 seconds you can see some of your guys shooting and no cops returned fire until you hit us with your truck, then your group decided to hit us again with a shafter after your "team" for a lack of better term already did that once.

I believe that whilst being shot at you are only permitted to use a vehicle to flee, not drive directly into gunfire as that would be putting your life at immediate risk and essentially a suicide mission especially trying to hit someone that is clearly opened fire on you.

I don't care that PD lost, im just disappointed that the situation went the way it did, the gentlemen on the ground, thank you for actually rping, as the highest rank on that scene and knowing what I knew at the time, the 2 on the ground were not going to be arrested for anything, worst thing they were getting was a ticket for the masks....

If I had of wanted to ignore rp I woulda just thrown them in the cruisers and left, but rather we kept a scene in hopes of interaction between us and you... not a shoot out... I don't play here to get in shootouts, I want interaction and RP, if I wanted shoot outs id go play Call of Duty.

So I would like to know what your reasoning was for Running everyone over multiple times and shooting cops... as I can assure you that if a cop drove into a group of people that had someone on their knees, you would be looking for the reasoning also. The difference in this instance is that we are not there to kill, rob, or do anything that justifies such drastic actions.

Imo, this could of gone better from both sides. If needed I can comment more but at this point I wish both sides of this report good luck.

[SgtRiasBaixas]

Hello, Rias Retarded here (as you have me tagged in ). Well, we are just claiming ramming into us several times (as the Contender did) and the fact you circled around and just running us over for the 3rd or 4th time. Literally in your video, we can just see how you are running over a player who was actually ran over 1 second ago.

Also myself was ran over after all this as you can barely see on "Jay Bacon's POV https://plays.tv/video/5d59ba3eae8e90eecb/vdm-dm ", minute 02.44 . You can see the cars moving from a crash and a third car (ID 242, 124 and I can identify last ID), and my character getting up from the ground (since I was ran over).

We are ok if you just run over us once, but being run over 5 times in the middle of a shoot out is not even funny, and more with the dynamics GTA has.

 

EDIT: In addition @dhardie we just didn't shoot. You did it, but that's not the thing we are discussing here I guess.

 

Thank you

Edited August 18, 2019 by SgtRiasBaixas
Adding info

[Pistol Pete]

Pete_Wright (ID 27) here, driver of the Contender.

 

The POV

 

The Breakdown

To add context to the scenario, the PD are outnumbered and are apprehending multiple higher command members of the Triads. These members were known to be carrying heavies and just assisted myself get away from a felony evasion charge. The cops on-scene would have chased them from that scenario. There's no denying that these members were on their way to Bolingbroke for a very long time!

00:00 - I respond to a backup call outside the Vespucci PD.

0:32 - First demand is given, "Let them go or die". The majority of these demands were given with a weapon aimed as seen in @CallumMontie's POV.

2:00 - First shots are fired. A whopping 1m27s after the first demands. I believe plenty of time was given for PD to comply.

2:14 - I use my vehicle to ram 2 PD members based on the previous fact. One of which utilises their panic alarm prior to collision.

2:24 - I unintentionally hit a cruiser which resulted in Jo Campbell going into a rag doll state. I sincerely apologise for that @dawpi, this wasn't meant to happen. The manoeuvre was intended to avoid ID 57 but I obviously overstretched. My intent and regret should be clear based on the audible "oh no" at 2:25.

2:30 - We pull up where we started the scenario, get out and fight on foot. I manage to do some damage before being put down and eventually carried away to safety.

 

The Feedback

3 hours ago, dawpi said:

We got rammed more than once when the rule says only once even if they fail.

As far as I know, this rule applies to individual players. The Contender (with me as the driver) and Schafter was used only once (intentionally) to ram members of PD.

I think PD can improve their RP standard a great deal in scenarios like this. It would certainly be interesting to see PD comply with demands in this kind of scenario or at very least acknowledge them and open a dialogue with the players making the demands. If the aforementioned options are not provided by PD we don't have much choice as criminals but to engage as we did. Recently, every time we've tried to engage in RP with P/SD, it's turned into chaos! Here's another scenario where we tried but our efforts were excessively denied:

 

[Phantas]

ID 99 (Wearing the bright pink shirt) here passenger from the contender. Do not see why i am being reported for DM and VDM. I was not the driver of the vehicle nor did i get to shoot a single shot as i was insta downed as i left the vehicle which can be seen by checking this video

 I do not fire a single shot during the ram or the shootout and get instant downed as I exit the vehicle. 

[raademar]

Hello. I'm ID 182 in this scenario sitting in the front passenger seat of the Schafter. My point of view is the same as ID 180 and Bruce, driver of the Schafter. Shots were fired at us after we gave demands and we then proceeded to fire back. After the one and only ram we got out of the car and I was killed within a few seconds.

[WindEZ]

Hello ,

Id 167 here Tony Accardo.

As mentioned above i had the same view as Pete Wright id 27 .

After he stopped the car i went to cover behind the car because bullets where flying and one of our mates in the car was already injured.

I pulled my gun out,  i shot two police officers then exactly when Pete left the contender`s cover i got injured .

Thank you .

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by DimaDan

[isBrainDed]

Officer that go run over and instantly died here, this is my perspective of the situation.

I have arrived to the scene when the 2 members of triads were already in hands of PD. I exited my cruiser and step behind it, so I was in cover.

 

Exited the vehicle at 253, then 60 seconds later, I was ran over by the contender instantly dying. 

https://streamable.com/vo190

You can see that there were shots from the Schafter, which I and other officers didn't retaliate too, mainly because I didn't know if it was desync from the vehicle as it happens, neither did I see the bullets fly towards us and you can even hear bacon say "They are just shooting in the air guys, take a breath" and after that I immediately get run over by the contender.

I don't think yelling demands from so far away is enough to warrant VDMing group of people, especially me as I wasn't involved in the detaining of the triad members, I just arrived on the scene and got rammed 60 seconds later, but that is admins decision in the end. 

I have longer video if necessary.

[SantinoDeferro]

Hello @dawpi!

Thank you for making the player report.

Report locked until reviewed. 

SantinoDeferro

[SantinoDeferro]

Hello and sorry for the late response. I had some IRL issues after accepting it. 

REPORT ACCEPTED

Player ID 27/Pete_Wright will be receiving punishment for Deathmatch | Offence #2 | VDM

Reason: 

1. Vehicles cannot be used to attack another player more than once including a failed attempt. ( Jay Bacons video: at 02:23 and Jo Cambell's video: at 00:20.) 
   • This part of the violation is self-explanatory and does not need additional explanation.  
2. Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay. 
   • I could not see any RP from your side and even though other gang members made demands on a group of officers who just tried to identify driver and passenger. As well as they were not showing any intent on arresting them.
3. You must display reasonable value for your life.
   • During the act you just decided to drove into group of officers who were carrying heavy weapons. In this case, you made a single man assault even when your guys told you not to do it. In this case, you didn't value your own life. 

Player ID 180/Bruce_Wong will be receiving punishment for Deathmatch | Offence #1 | VDM

Reason: 

1. You must display reasonable value for your life.
   • During the act you just decided to drove into group of officers who were carrying heavy weapons. After exiting the car all of the members just died in a few seconds. Which means you didn't value your own life and not your allies' life. 
2. Attacking another player with no engagement in roleplay is not allowed. 
   • I could not see any RP before your hit in the center of the police group which resulted badly (all of you were downed). You didn't demand anything and you just drove into the group and exited the car for the shootout. I will explain why those "demands" were not serious from a police point of view. 

Example of valid reasons to attack another player: 

1. If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.
   • Looking through the video I didn't see any clear signs on attempting an arrest. Police pulled both guys on the side of the road and used more units because they had reasonable doubt that the same car was used in previous situations. However, it was 10-55 and they were identifying them. They were searched because of wearing masks in public places. Even though you called it an attempt for an arrest, but it was assumed because of their background. 
   • Deciding to drove into police group and almost hit your own gang member which resulted in massive shootout where gang leader (high ranked member) was downed. It seems a bit sketchy and not reasonable to put high ranking members life into risk. 
2. If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules. 
   • In this case, all demands were not legitimate. Why? Looking through all videos, I just noticed that attacking party had edge in manpower but not in firepower. I could not see any heavy weapons in the video, maybe there were but still, I could not see why officers should take demands serious or follow demands from criminals who were gathering there and screamed some random things and not showing actual power that would make them scared. In this case we need to look at the training level that officers will have as well as their equipment would be much better (kevlar). We can't compare them 1 to 1 with criminals. This means there should be at least 1 to 3 ratio in manpower or at least everyone should have better equipment, to get those demands followed. 
   • Of Course, officers could follow demands and everyone could walk away but it was not a wrong decision to proceed with identifying the guys.

Endnote: 

After looking through all the provided videos, I did notice something that we are not tolerating in the community. We want to see that every member can show high RP standards and follow server rules all the time. During the video, I noticed that ID 48 Li Kwang, ID 300 Tony Pong, ID 27 Pete Wright, etc were not playing their characters as they should. If your character is injured, especially shot down and would have multiple GSW's, your character would not laughing around and say "ez clap" etc.  After shootout grabbing all guns and carrying your gang members behind the dumpster to spend their last minutes seems a bit off as well. I am not going press any punishments on that but just keep in mind, we are looking high-quality RP all the time. 

Regards,

Moderator SantinoDeferro

Report locked & archived.