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Toxic Sexism On The Server

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30 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

Honestly, putting on the grown up pants for a moment, the only way to get the issues outlined in this thread to stop is to start reporting it.  I understand that it's time consuming and unfair and you shouldn't have to do this and all that, but if your response is to:

...in response to harassment, then there will never be any resolution.  Why would there be?  If the people doing this sort of stuff aren't getting in trouble, why would they stop?

I don't understand what kinds of action you want to be taken if the standard response is to refuse to bring it up to those who'd be able to help you.  If you want change, you need to take action yourself and empower yourself, because otherwise things will stay the same.

Absolutely. I think Randul's response about the rule would help this. The reason I haven‘t taken this behavior to the forums in terms of player reports is highly due to not really having a rule to cite that has actual weight aside from he-said/she-said which then results in meaningless reports and a lot of wasted time. With potential rule changes, there would be something enforceable and a process (stating discomfort OOCly first) which would effectively throw out the he-said/she-said time wasting. Player reports take time and effort both on the reporting party side and staff side and when the response from the reported party is "that's my roleplay" it makes things exponentially more difficult and can leave you feeling what is the point which is highly unfortunate.

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I sympathize with you, and totally get what you mean. Although I'm not a female, I'm treated like a piece of meat just walking down the street. @Phil McGee

I hope a good solution is brought forth there are some decent suggestions but its tough to limit people from speaking derogatory to other players. Randul's suggestion is good, if a player is feeling harassed about something maybe they can't help, like being a female, or gay, or having an accent, you should be able to say in /b that you're uncomfortable and it should end there. A rule like that would be pretty easy to implement, I think.

I knew a player who quit because he had a speech impediment and people would nonstop flame him as soon as he started talking, which is fucked up and should never happen. 

Anyway, I'm all for a rule put in place that would limit players from being harassed or being made uncomfortable ONLY for things out of their control (sex, voice, sexuality). probably at least.

Edited by Dashingly
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1 hour ago, Celine said:

Hi! I just wanted to put my input on this discussion. I have been playing on this server for about 3 months now and I agree that this is an issue. Personally, I don't get affected by the IC interactions but it does discourage me to go to certain places such as the bank. However I cant speak for everyone. I am sure it's super uncomfortable, especially if you're by yourself to get ganged up on and I totally agree that it's unrealistic. I love waking up and going to the parking lot only for 10+ gang members to surround me and ask for ERP. If anything it's just annoying having to deal with boys/ grown men stalking your character, making comments, calling you all sorts of names whilst you just want to go on with your day.

I don't really care about how boys talk to me IC, but most of the time when a boy tries to talk to me IC they take it OOC. After either trying to cat call me or force an interaction with me I get hit with the /pm 000 Hey what's your discord? -- Again, I can just ignore it right? But no, sadly some of these boys do take the time to look in every EclipseRP related discord server in hopes of finding me. What happens next? Constant messages. Yes I am aware that I can block them, but does it help when it happens frequently? When I have to deal with it every single day that I log on?

And for the record. No it's definitely not only criminals on the server who acts this way. It's everything from PD, MD, DCC, DOC, both big and small factions, quiz team members, support members, and even moderators+. You get the idea. I've been sent to prison before and watched DOC employees state remarks about things they do to females. Similar things happen in PD when I have to deal with officers constantly harassing me and targeting me for rejecting them. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone at PD is bad, but the majority of officers I have interacted with have said some sort of sexual comment towards my character and they let their OOC feelings mix into their character's feelings. I love watching the same cop who was rejected the day prior mosey on up to bank with the swat team over reckless operation of a vehicle. Now to all of you who say ignore it, yeah let me just ignore a police officer when he pulls me over just to talk to my character and force interaction? Let me just ignore a staff member and ignore RP? You either comply and talk to them or reject them and get targeted. You rejected a police officer? Have fun being arrested on bullshit charges. For those that say report them, do you expect me to report 10+ different guys every day for harassment and report staff members for constantly trying to contact me OOC? All you can do as a female on this server is smile, wave, act nice and ignore anything sexual that comes your way even if you're being stalked and messaged OOCly.

Celine, thank you for taking the time to let us know about your experiences thus far. I'm sorry your experience has been that way. First, let me state that if you have any issue with this behavior at MD please let us know with a report. I am a part of the faction and the members I typically rp with including higher ups are very well aware of this thread. That behavior is not acceptable. Second, I am hopeful that by speaking about this and having respectful conversations, these situations will lessen as there will be more weight behind our requests for it to stop. 

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3 minutes ago, Dashingly said:

I sympathize with you, and totally get what you mean. Although I'm not a female, I'm treated like a piece of meat just walking down the street. @Phil McGee

I hope a good solution is brought forth there are some decent suggestions but its tough to limit people from speaking derogatory to other players. Randul's suggestion is good, if a player is feeling harassed about something maybe they can't help, like being a female, or gay, or having an accent, you should be able to say in /b that you're uncomfortable and it should end there. A rule like that would be pretty easy to implement, I think.

I knew a player who quit because he had a speech impediment and people would nonstop flame him as soon as he started talking, which is fucked up and should never happen.

Anyway, I'm all for a rule put in place that would limit players from being harassed or being made uncomfortable ONLY for things out of their control (sex, voice, sexuality). probably at least.

Thank you and I am sorry about the negative behaviors you came into contact with as well as the player who quit. I know that I didn't take part in that nor do I know you, but it still is disheartening. 

There is actually a player report I wanted to clip and post along with a video of my own of smaller behaviors that link to this thread. Unfortunately I am not at my PC but I can outline what occurred:

1. In the player report, a male was roleplaying as a female and comments included "let me see them titties" as well as '"the only thing you'll do with that knife is make me a sandwich" keep in mind they were reported for VDM which was occurring at the same time. Not the worst comments but then the female begins talking over VOIP, obviously with a man's voice and the comments then switched to "fucking tranny’" and "oh shit it's a macho-ma'am!" What great RP there - sarcasm intended.

2. The other day I was having a few mic issues mid session so I was using text chat instead of VOIP. At the parking lot I was engaging in conversation to then be asked "can I hear your lovely voice?" to which my typed response was "my voice? you're hearing it right now."

The party in this scenario didn't push the issue and I walked away without trouble but with these two examples, at least in my eyes, show the "fascination" with female player confirmation that has absolutely no bearing on RP and begs the question of why is this happening in the first place. With Randul's suggestion, I do think behaviors that are unnecessary and demoralizing will begin to lessen. Of course there will always be rule breakers or else the player report forum wouldn't exist, but it won't be as rampant as it is presently.

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Hello,

After discussing this with the staff team, I'd like to relay a message to you, although you may not appreciate it that much, but the general consensus was that you really just need to record the instances and the moment you feel that it turns into harassment, you report it with all the evidence you have, as the following rule would be broken:

Quote

4.2: It is prohibited to intimidate players from playing on the server or to continuously harass them in the game for OOC reasons to purposely make their game experience poor.

It's not really realistic, for our staff team to go around supervising all female players and asking them if they feel harassed. It's also not our problem if you choose not to report these instances, and this is really what we feel as the best solution to this; Report It! If you feel it is excessive harassment but do not want to report it, ask them to stop civilly in OOC and move away (if possible). We cannot put in all of the effort for you, you'd need to do so yourself and we will then put our effort into investigating the individual situations. 

A lot of these issues you've brought up can be resolved ICly and should remain IC. This is roleplay, we try our best not to restrict roleplay for other players. 

I'll be locking and archiving this post here, but if any other staff member would like to weigh in go ahead and do so.

Kind Regards,
Flucifial

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