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DeanThompson

DeanThompson - Vincent Galliano (Deathmatch Appeal)

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Account name: DeanThompson
Character name(s): Vincent Galliano

Admin who issued punishment: Zemaitc
Date of punishment: 09/JUN/2019
Punishment received: Not stated - Deathmatching added to account "Vincent_Galliano | Deathmatching, DM #1"

Reason given for punishment: Deathmatching


Your explanation of what happened:

I went to Bayview Auto Center with the intent to break into cars. I threatened the Bayview workers and made them believe that I had called in reinforcements from my gang. 
I had threatened them with my firearm. While I was in the process of threatening them police showed up. I figured that one of the other workers inside the garage had called police and I ran. I later found out when this complaint was made that the police had shown up by coincidence.

In any case as soon as they turned up, they saw me with my firearm out and wearing a mask. Realizing I had just been caught in the act (or at least thats what I reasonably believed at the time) I ran away. 

Police chased me on foot with weapons drawn. I couldn't see what weapons they had drawn at the time but I believed it would have been a gun given that I had my gun out. Officers don't usually take tazers to gunfights.

I ran up a tower in an attempt to evade them but they had seen me and I knew they were about to arrest me. I was trapped on top of the tower and the only way to escape was to create a distraction and open fire on them, forcing them to take cover and thus giving me enough time to run and escape.

Police returned fire and instantly killed me.


Why should your appeal be accepted?:

1) I do not believe that I did in fact deathmatch and believe that I acted in full compliance with Eclipse RP Server Rules.

Eclipse RP Server Rules Section 14. Deathmatching specifically stipulate that you are allowed to attack a player who is attempting to arrest you. I attacked players who were attempting to arrest me.

Zemaitic said in his reasoning for punishing me was that I assumed the intent of police was to arrest me. I did not make any assumptions, I made a sound inference from very clear facts.

Police WERE going to arrest me. When police arrived at Bayview a mechanic ran up to the police and said "That guy just called Zetas and Clowns down here". Police activated the sirens and started pursuing me on foot. - Refer 9 seconds in on the video. I didn't know at the time that police had turned up by coincident, I believed they had been called there by someone.

Police activated their lights and sirens and pursued me on foot with weapons drawn after they had just been told by a mechanic that I had called Zetas and Clowns to Bayview. This proves their intent to arrest me.

The police aimed a weapon at me as I was climbing the tower and demanded that I get down from the tower. A police officer said "Get down here now".

It is very clear that police were going to arrest me and as per server rules I therefore had justification to attack them to prevent them arresting me.
 

Quote

Examples of valid reasons to attack another player:


• If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property.
• If they report you to the police for a serious crime.
• If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules.

2) I have had no prior admin involvements and am in good standing with the community

I've never had any involvements with admins or prior breaches of server rules. I am in good standing with the community and even run the LSEMS. This good standing should be taken into consideration when deciding on a punishment if after appeal I am found to be guilty.

3) The situation is subjective and not entirely clear as to whether or not this is a breach of server rules.

As an ordinary player I can only interpret the rules to the best of my ability. The server rules do specifically say that you CAN attack a player who is attempting to arrest you. If this situation is deemed to be deathmatching I should not be liable for penalty given that the server rules specifically permit attacking players who attempt to arrest you.

Post any evidence or further details:

https://plays.tv/video/5cf7e190f16271a39c/report-footage-id-44-1559747806

Original complaint:

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/20584-id-44-14-dm/?tab=comments#comment-103478

Edited by DeanThompson
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Hello @DeanThompson,

thanks for making the punishment appeal.

As I mentioned it was not a sole decision by myself, I had few other opinions on the matter too. All the points were stated in the original report, so I will just paste them again:

Vincent Galliano: Let us address the main points you have stated why you opened fire on the police officers and why it is wrong. Threatening bayview workers, proclaiming having warrants and illegal weaponry on you - is nowhere near enough to start shooting at the officers who came to the scene based on assumptions of their true intent. Also being chased by a car and on foot (because you chose to run away, instead to make a hostage situation which we think would have been a lot better RP or keep on running towards the bike ), they aimed at you (to your glitched char) with tazers (non-lethal weapon) also you pinned down yourself in a silo tower which gives no way to escape than ladder itself, being outnumbered by cops and some extra mechanics on their way (should just gave up at that point we believe) does not give you the right to shoot the officers who were there just because you assumed you are at the dead end. Officer only made a demand to get from the tower since they had no time or distance to demand anything else before. 

In addition to that I really do not find it valid to address judgement to their status in the server, everyone is equal and everyone plays by the same rulebook. It would be unfair to other players if that would be taken into consideration while addressing the rulebreaches made by people. Sometimes new players gets some benefit of the doubt since they are new and adjusting to the server and its rules but deathmatching is not taken lightly.

Addressing no previous record is also a bit questionable, since it depends what did you play before. If I would consider your character Vincent experience it is really low to claim to be an experienced criminal and if your other character is MD chief, than I believe a chief of this sort has not had many experience of being a criminal and making criminal moves around Los Santos, but this is assumptions of mine. All in all, status and previous record is very subjective, because it depends on actual gameplay history.

Also, I will just repeat myself most likely, that I do not find this "lets shoot the officers, because I pinned myself down while I'm outnumbered (1 v 2 + incoming mechanics)" a valid reason. That shows no value to your own life in a situation where the outcome is gonna be an injured criminal hoping to receive a deathRP or shot down completely to avoid any consequences.

I do stand by the decision that was made, but if it will be changed I will agree to it too.

Pending a review by a Senior Admin+.

Kind regards,

Zemaitc

 

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7 hours ago, Zemaitc said:

Hello @DeanThompson,

thanks for making the punishment appeal.

As I mentioned it was not a sole decision by myself, I had few other opinions on the matter too. All the points were stated in the original report, so I will just paste them again:

Vincent Galliano: Let us address the main points you have stated why you opened fire on the police officers and why it is wrong. Threatening bayview workers, proclaiming having warrants and illegal weaponry on you - is nowhere near enough to start shooting at the officers who came to the scene based on assumptions of their true intent. Also being chased by a car and on foot (because you chose to run away, instead to make a hostage situation which we think would have been a lot better RP or keep on running towards the bike ), they aimed at you (to your glitched char) with tazers (non-lethal weapon) also you pinned down yourself in a silo tower which gives no way to escape than ladder itself, being outnumbered by cops and some extra mechanics on their way (should just gave up at that point we believe) does not give you the right to shoot the officers who were there just because you assumed you are at the dead end. Officer only made a demand to get from the tower since they had no time or distance to demand anything else before. 

In addition to that I really do not find it valid to address judgement to their status in the server, everyone is equal and everyone plays by the same rulebook. It would be unfair to other players if that would be taken into consideration while addressing the rulebreaches made by people. Sometimes new players gets some benefit of the doubt since they are new and adjusting to the server and its rules but deathmatching is not taken lightly.

Addressing no previous record is also a bit questionable, since it depends what did you play before. If I would consider your character Vincent experience it is really low to claim to be an experienced criminal and if your other character is MD chief, than I believe a chief of this sort has not had many experience of being a criminal and making criminal moves around Los Santos, but this is assumptions of mine. All in all, status and previous record is very subjective, because it depends on actual gameplay history.

Also, I will just repeat myself most likely, that I do not find this "lets shoot the officers, because I pinned myself down while I'm outnumbered (1 v 2 + incoming mechanics)" a valid reason. That shows no value to your own life in a situation where the outcome is gonna be an injured criminal hoping to receive a deathRP or shot down completely to avoid any consequences.

I do stand by the decision that was made, but if it will be changed I will agree to it too.

Pending a review by a Senior Admin+.

Kind regards,

Zemaitc

 

The fact is cops were trying to arrest me, I attacked them to prevent them arresting me. The rules state specifically that is a valid reason to attack someone and is not deathmatching.

 

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Hello and thanks for the appeal.

After discussing this with senior staff, the reporter arrived at Bayview and the mechanics were reporting you to the police. The player was standing there whilst they were  reporting him to the police, and consequently started running. The police pursued him with sirens (emergency lights), at this point he knows he is being reported for a crime he committed and the police get out on foot and proceed to chase him. This is enough hostility with a clear sign of him being arrested. The Deathmatching rules allows players to initiate an attack if someone is attempting to arrest them.

 

I will put the definition taken from a dictionary found in a google of "arrest"
image.png

 

In conclusion, the punishment is voided. @DeanThompson I would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused.

 

Appeal accepted, archived.

- Lewis

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